planting tree seedlings in my pasture~ any advice?

[jcatblum]

I am working on an order for some seedlings from the forestry. (someone here suggested it & I am VERY thankful for the suggestion!)

I have 3 or 4 wooded acres on the back of my 20 acres, the rest is pasture. My desire is to add trees to the pasture that will provide for food, shade & attract wildlife.

In a few yrs, when we move to the land full time, I would like to be able to graze a couple of cattle, maybe some sheep & goats. Just enough meat for the family, not resale or anything.

My question is how close would you plant your trees if you still want to graze the pasture. I know I want to keep the spacing far enough to be able to drive the tractor around without any problems. Just want to make sure I don't shade the pasture too much to keep it from supporting any future livestock. Any other thoughts or ideas?

[Tricky Grama]

I really hate to respond b/c we've planted about a bazillion trees in pasture area & all have died. May be our dirt there? Anyway, sounds like you're going about it right-enuf room to mow around. Do you have a way to water them a lot at first?

[mammabooh]

What kind of trees are you planting? An oak would need a lot more space that a locust would.

[rambler]

I'd plant none in a pasture. Seems like a mess to the pasture. Best forage is grass & a few legumes, and they grow best in full sun/ full rain. A couple trees on the edge will provide some shade, which will cause the livestock to gather under & ruin the grass there with trampling, but such is life. Too many trees shade the grass & rob the moisture, and will offer less forage than no trees at all.

Bigger livestock will rub on & kill the trees; smaller livestock will rip at the bark.

Many trees are not the best/ healthiest for livestock, with minor toxins that aren't deadly, but not the best. Horses are prone to several tree types. Acorns are a choking hazard. And so on.

You'd need to protect the seedlings for decades or the livestock will strip them down anyhow.

Maybe it's all different where you are, but 'here' trees and pasture don't like each other.

And - I do like trees, have a several acre grove that the grandparents & parents grew, love the trees in the yard, and I have several trees that grew up around the pasture fenceline. I'm not anti-tree! Just - seem to be in the way & conter-productive inside the pasture 'here'. I'd put the trees elsewhere, or only a couple in a corner that is easy to fence off. Choose species carefully, different critters have different types that are bad for them. Expect feed production to go down with trees in the mix, not up.

--->Paul

[ErinP]

I completely agree with Paul. Been there, done that. You don't want young trees of any sort in with livestock so you'd have to fence until they're mature.
If you want shade for your pasture, put a few in strategic locations and fence them out until maturity.

[heavyrebel]

Is there a reason you want MORE trees? Most people cut trees from pastures, you want grass for cattle, not trees. Trees are for Giraffes.

[agmantoo]

Here is a link that explains how to accomplish what you are wanting. Read each of the modules on the left of the screen
http://www.silvopasture.org/photo_gallery.html

Here is another link
http://www.centerforagroforestry.org/practices/sp.asp

[ronbre]

20 would be a minimal space for most trees, also use some cardboard or newspapers around the trunks to keep the grasses down on the seedlings and use some hardware cloth or chicken wire cages around them to prevent browsing of wildlife while they grow

[Patt]

We have trees in our pasture, everybody does around here, it just gets too hot in the Summer for us not to have some shade. Our cows absolutely adore persimmons. We have a wide variety around the edges too for the goats. I can't imagine a pasture without trees to be honest.

[Patt]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Here is a link that explains how to accomplish what you are wanting. Read each of the modules on the left of the screen
http://www.silvopasture.org/photo_gallery.html

Here is another link
http://www.centerforagroforestry.org/practices/sp.asp

Cool link, thanks!

[ErinP]

Originally Posted by heavyrebel

Is there a reason you want MORE trees? Most people cut trees from pastures, you want grass for cattle, not trees. Trees are for Giraffes.

You're obviously from the eastern part of the US where they have rain. lol
West of about the 100th parallel or so, we PLANT trees because God didn't give us enough rain for them to just grow on their own.

I'll never forget the day this summer when my kids were out riding their horses on our little 40 acres. They came running back to the house and said "Mom!! We have a tree!!" A 2' cedar, but one more tree than we though we had. lol

[MO_cows]

Be careful what kind of trees you start. Some trees generate so many volunteers that they can take over. And some can be toxic. I would put the trees in the corners and maybe a couple in the middle, and keep them fenced off from livestock until they get pretty big. Look up the mature size of the trees and space them out so their canopies won't overlap too much.

[casusbelli]

Grass grows best under locusts - black or honey. Tiny leaves let in ample sunshine, and trees fix nitrogen too for the grass. In autumn, no matting of leaves either to smother grass, the tiny leaflets disappear quickly. And later on, they make good fenceposts.
For edges, hedgeapple/osage orange makes a good barrier, and in many years, great firewood.
Anything else would need barrier protection. Cattle especially love chesnut oaks, both leaves and acorns. That tree is almost fodder.

[motdaugrnds]

I would not want a pasture for my stock that did not have some shade trees in it; however, I consider a "grazing/forage" pasture different from a hay-producing one where you would need to mow & bale hay.

I suggest the first thing you do is have your agricultural agent visit you and walk over your pasture area with him. Talk with him about what trees would do well for what you want. He will be able to give you information more specific to your area.

Since you are wanting to plant the trees on land you are not now living on, you will need to protect whatever you plant from the natural wild life there. Deer will kill fruit and nut trees before they ever get a chance to develop unless you protect them WELL. (We encircled ours with 2 fences, each 2-1/2 ft from the other & from the tree. This has worked real well.) If you are going to raise goats, remember they are "browsers" and, thus, some nice healthy "shrubs" would be good for them. (We planted lespedeza shrubs and encircled them with fencing. Then let them grow and throw their seeds all over the pasture.)

Watering is a must too; so make sure you can get water to your trees or your work will be for naught.

People are correct in here when they say shade trees will smother out your pasture; however, that can be kept to a minimum with proper planning. And you could actually place some type of watering trough under the trees. As for as "spacing" between trees, that would really depend on the type of tree you are going to grow as some branch out more than others. "One" large tree is beautiful standing alone! (An English Walnut would be real nice in a pasture; but it will need protections. Deer and goats both strip the trunks off some trees. To stop this, we took some welded wire 2" x 4" & 4' high and wound it twice around the trunks of our grown trees. It works!)

Hope this helps some.

[agmantoo]

jcatblum

As I was converting the worn out farm into pastures I already had a lot of trees of low timber value. Trying to think ahead I wanted to somehow enhance the appearance of the place and yet utilize the acreage. We have a lot of golf courses so I though that I would try to replicate that look into a beef farm. Using the lay of the land to my benefit I serpentined long rectangular strips parallel to each other to resembling fairways and left strips of trees in between. The cattle have shade and actually the grass grows best near the shade of the trees. Here is what resulted without me having to plant the trees. If this is near what you want I say go for it provided you can get the trees established.

[EDDIE BUCK]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Here is a link that explains how to accomplish what you are wanting. Read each of the modules on the left of the screen
http://www.silvopasture.org/photo_gallery.html

Here is another link
http://www.centerforagroforestry.org/practices/sp.asp

That is some beautiful pasture,with pines,green grass,and happy cows,thanks for the links. Now all I need is to be able to go back about thirty years, to make it a reality for me.Unless them pines grow by leaps and bounds,my forward direction,I might see them get ten feet tall with my remaining years, LOL. Oh,and AGMANTOO,yours looks mighty fine without the pines and cows.The cows must be in the shade where its cool.

[jcatblum]

I know each tree has it's own min spacing requirements, I am not wanting to go anywhere near the min spacing. I really just want some trees scattered throught the pasture. As of right now, we put a single wide out on the land, so it will serve as a weekend get-away. Going out and watering trees once a wk wouldn't be a problem. I know I am going to loose seedlings to other critters, but they are less than $1 each (not a big loss).

When I look at what the forestry has for order I like the following
Pecan, persimmon, sand plum, hackberry, red mulberry, bush honeysuckle, fragrant sumac, roughleaf dogwood ~~ I know some of those are not trees, but they will attract other wildlife, which I personally enjoy. I told each of my kids they could pick what they liked, so the above list is what I have to work with. I am sure in time will designate a small part of the land for an orchard.

The pasture is already split in 3 different areas, one large area for cattle, 2 or 3 acres for small animals like goats and such, with a shelter on it & the other area is 2 or 3 acres with a large barn. I figure I can work the variety my family picked within the different areas. I have tried to get ahold of our local forestry for the county, but I can't seem to catch him at his office. The comments were helpfull, so was the link. Most people don't have many trees around here, but I can't imagine putting livestock out in 105 degrees without shade!

I found this link and it was encouraging for me!
http://www.csrees.usda.gov/nea/ag_sy...sare_good.html

Now I just have to figure out how to space my pecans to achieve what I want!

[EDDIE BUCK]

I noticed you did not mention pines,which might be a good thing,especialy if you have many deer.I can't speak for the trees you mentioned,but I planted about fifty or sixty loblolly pines in my front yard, and about half are a good size about ten feet tall.

The rest the deer are keeping to around two or three feet tall.Every time they walk by them,they bite off any upward growing shoots.Never figured why they just chose those trees, rather than all of them.After rereading your post,and you WANT wildlife close by,go with some pines.Around my place they are deer magnets.lol

[jcatblum]

Originally Posted by EDDIE BUCK

I noticed you did not mention pines,which might be a good thing,especialy if you have many deer.I can't speak for the trees you mentioned,but I planted about fifty or sixty loblolly pines in my front yard, and about half are a good size about ten feet tall.

The rest the deer are keeping to around two or three feet tall.Every time they walk by them,they bite off any upward growing shoots.Never figured why they just chose those trees, rather than all of them.After rereading your post,and you WANT wildlife close by,go with some pines.Around my place they are deer magnets.lol

I didn't mention pines, my family farm has over 200 acres of pines! I don't miss the pines at all! I am sure a few pines wouldn't be bad, but honestly I would like to see a variety of trees. With my childhood home in the middle of pine trees I did see LOTS of wildlife everyday. I might consider a small section of pine trees, but don't they reproduce volunteer seedlings?

[motdaugrnds]

I think your choices sound good; and I hear they don't cost much so it isn't a big loss if some get taken by wild life. Still I doubt you want them all taken and it has been my experience that the tree I most want to endure is the one wild life enjoy more frequently .. thus the double fencing idea came into effect.

There was some "bush" I wanted awhile ago that would save its seed until winter; then drop it and the birds (especially quail & pheasant) would eat those seed throughout the winter. I cannot remember the name of it; but I think I found it googling Bobwhite quail. Since you are wanting to encourage wild life on your place, that might be something to look into. (Also, lespedeza "shrubs" can be mowed down after they have developed a nice root system and put out again from the roots to form an impenatrable hedge that wild life can nestle under. My goats love this shrub!)