Getting property out of a living estate?

grandmajo · #1 09/29/10, 08:29 AM

My DH and I are interested in a piece of property that's sitting a few miles from us. It has a home and barns, but has been sitting empty for a couple of years. I looked up the property on our county auditor's page and it listed the owner's name, then Et Al after it. I sent the info to a friend of mine who's a realtor and she said that it looks like it is in a living estate. (or maybe she said living trust, I can't remember for sure). The owner listed is an elderly widowed woman, that I believe is in a nursing home. We have seen people there mowing, but this year they don't seem to be taking as good of care of the place as they did last year....yard not mowed very often, bushes not trimmed, etc.

So my question is this; is it possible to buy this property even though it is in an estate (or trust)? We are very interested in this property, it has all of the things that we're looking for. We're thinking about sending a letter stating our interest in the property, is this a good idea?

dragonjaze · #2 09/29/10, 08:37 AM

Can't hurt to ask.

Just word the letter nicely.

Common Tator · #3 09/29/10, 08:43 AM

A living trust can be changed by the trustor as long as they are alive. Send a letter to the address where the tax bills go, and ask about buying it.

katy · #4 09/29/10, 08:53 AM

Grandmajo, As far as I know, the trust - estate- whatever should be public information available at the courthouse. First and foremost it is best to know in advance if there is one heir or 10, if the latter chances of getting any agreement would not be good. I would be very tempted to inquire about owner, if she is mentally alert she would be a first choice of inquiry. If a lawyer is the Administrator I would be very doubtful of a good outcome.

It is always worth a try and you could research living trusts on the net. Good luck.

motdaugrnds · #5 09/29/10, 08:58 AM

That is a good place to start; however, you might get better results if you visited the party(s) in person.

rambler · #6 09/29/10, 08:58 AM

You may likely be getting into a 'family sitiuation' here.

The elderly person doesn't want to sell.

The next generation wants the place, but can't have it until the elder passes on.

Things were set up as a trust, to pass on the property to the next generation. There are ways to set this up to avoid taxes or the property going to pay for the old home.

So......

It doesn't hurt to ask. But don't get your hopes up.

If you ask the elderly, you will be viewed as someone preying upon the elderly.

If you ask the younger generation, the elderly will think you are trying to buy _thier_ property out from under them.

Doesn't hurt to ask.

Don't get your hopes very high.

A trust is a way to pass property from one person to the next, and would only be set up if the younger generation actually wants the place most of the time?

--->Paul

grandmajo · #7 09/29/10, 09:12 AM

Thanks everybody!

I'm going to contact one of my neighbors. He's lived here a long time, and seems to know about everybody in the surrounding 10 miles. Plus the place that we're interested in used to raise horses and so does he.

I will go ahead and send the letter, asking nicely and see where it goes. We're looking at it as if it's in GOD's will for us, it will happen.

katy · #8 09/29/10, 09:27 AM

Grandmajo, Very nicely done web page for the farm. I personally like the tone and the straight forward information.

I have a neighbor who drinks raw goat milk and I must say that I enjoyed a sample of it, tasted just like store cow milk.

grandmajo · #9 09/29/10, 09:32 AM

Thanks Katy!

ronbre · #10 09/29/10, 09:51 AM

NO , it isn't possible unless the owner of the trust dies and the alternate trustee will sell it..we just went through a living trust with my inlaws..they put it in a trust so it will go to their family "when they die"..obviously they aren't dead yet.

Who knows, whatever has them unable to live at home may find a cure and they may want to return to their home someday..they are finding cures for things all the time.

It would be just plain wrong to sell a home out from under someone who is still alive....that is what a living trust is for..the family can't really use it while they are alive..but they can maintain it knowing that it will be theirs someday..and they could possibly put a temporary renter in it to maintain it if it was agreeable to all trustees..

i LOVE living trusts..i feel they are the only real way to go

Lazy J · #11 09/29/10, 09:57 AM

et al simply means "and others". You need to see the actual ownership record, which my be online, to determine ownership.

grandmajo · #12 09/29/10, 10:02 AM

Thanks Lazy J, looks like a trip to the court house is in order.

edcopp · #13 09/29/10, 10:13 AM

Short answer=yes. What common-tater said.

There are conditions like is Granny competent?

et.al.= all the others. This really means nothing or a lot, just depends. If granny is not so competent then one of the "others" may have her POA (power of attorney). In that case that would be the person to see. Often these groups have an "old established family lawyer". In this case the lawyer will be in it for the ($$$).

Now there may be siblings, children, spouses, former spouses, adopted children, former shack-up partners, out of wedlock children, and so on that may have an interest (et.al.).

There will almost always be at least one party that thinks that the property is worth more than it really is. Thus the property sits empty for years, sometimes generations. The "family" lawyer just keeps on collecting an annual retainer fee ($$$) for advice and consultation.

Legal advice from your local Realtor lady is worthless in this case, and usually free. Still overpriced.

The way to purchase this property is to find any person in the group who has the right to sell. This will be granny if she is competent. She can deliver a deed to you and then you are the owner. at.al. may still have some claims on the property. Sometimes there will be a list of 50 or more who claim an interest in the property.

What happens next is you the new owner file an action to "Quiet title" in the court system. This takes a bit of time, usually several months. The action is not exactly cheap, and may end up going to a sheriff's sale. Where you can clear the other claimants by outbidding them. They may outbid you and this could create a profit situation for you. That can be another post as this is the stuff that "Late Night" advertised on T.V. seminars are made.

Michael W. Smith · #14 09/29/10, 10:45 AM

Can you buy it? Yes. It doesn't matter if it's in a living trust or co-owned.

But as has been said - tread lightly. Is "Granny" coherent? If so, you can talk to her, but will probably have to find out who actually has POA for her and also deal with them.

But if Granny has been in the nursing home for some time, she could very well be out of money - and the State may be paying for her keep. If so, the State is going to want their money back - up to the cost of the house.

Or maybe some of the kin (et al) are just waiting for her to die to do something with it. Keep it . . . . . . sell it . . . . . . ?

Possibly "Granny" is of sound mind, and the "et al" would like to sell the place but she won't sign off of it because in her mind - she may get "better" and be able to return.

It's really hard to tell what situation this is.

But just write a nice letter saying you are interested in buying it - and see where it goes from there. It never hurts to ask!

oceantoad · #15 09/29/10, 11:34 AM

grandmajo,

Just to add confusion to it all.

My home is a living will or trust and I am living in it.

When the wife died it was set up like this so I could live in it, but when I die it is split between the 2 sons. That should be interesting to watch.

I am in Texas and the attorney who I feel is incompetent told me that I would get no proceeds from the house if it was sold.

I then spoke with an attorney that specializes in real estate and she told me that I would get money from the sale, but the amount varied with my age.

I was told to look at i think it was the life estate tables on the internet and it would show the amount that I would receive. My cut is less as I age.

For the boys, they are better off to block the sale until I am more ancient, gets them more money. Better yet I will die and they don't have to worry about my cut.

What I am getting at is it could be tough to buy if heirs are holding out for all the money.

This is Texas, things I am sure will be different in Ohio.

edcopp · #16 09/29/10, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oceantoad

grandmajo,

Just to add confusion to it all.

My home is a living will or trust and I am living in it.

When the wife died it was set up like this so I could live in it, but when I die it is split between the 2 sons. That should be interesting to watch.

I am in Texas and the attorney who I feel is incompetent told me that I would get no proceeds from the house if it was sold.

I then spoke with an attorney that specializes in real estate and she told me that I would get money from the sale, but the amount varied with my age.

I was told to look at i think it was the life estate tables on the internet and it would show the amount that I would receive. My cut is less as I age.

For the boys, they are better off to block the sale until I am more ancient, gets them more money. Better yet I will die and they don't have to worry about my cut.

What I am getting at is it could be tough to buy if heirs are holding out for all the money.

This is Texas, things I am sure will be different in Ohio.

Not too much different in Ohio

edcopp · #17 09/29/10, 03:39 PM

So perhaps you could borrow some money against the property that you own but do not control, who knows?

Fat Charlie · #18 09/29/10, 06:15 PM

Multiple heirs could actually help you. They probably don't all plan on using equal fractions of it, and none of them are using it at all right now. It's basically useless to them until it's sold. Sure, there's the risk of someone holding out for unrealistic money, and there's also the risk that they'll hold out until the real estate market goes up. It doesn't really cost them anything to hold on to it so they may hold out for better terms.

I was on that end once- my sister and I inherited a property once. It was too far away for either of us to want, and we have seperate lives. We just wanted out of it. We turned down one "offer" that was so low we actually laughed at it, but as soon as something reasonable came around, SOLD! We weren't motivated sellers, but we also weren't motivated holders. The heirs will probably be something like that. Either way, they're still probably looking to sell- and that helps you.

If Granny is still running things, no doubt she's attached to it- but she's also been thinking about how best to pass it on. She knows that it'll mean selling it, even if she hasn't fully admitted that to herself. In your letter, be sure to mention that you have noticed the marked drop in maintenance on the property and are interested in buying it because you intend to live on it and use it.

Good luck.

rambler · #19 09/29/10, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edcopp

So perhaps you could borrow some money against the property that you own but do not control, who knows?

Not if the bank is very smart... Or at least, not very much. Split ownership discounts a property on their charts very much.... And this really isn't split ownership, it's just the life depreciation chart on the chance you'd like to sue to get your part of it and move on before passing.....

I'm in the middle of something like that only totally different, it can be a nightmare.

--->Paul

Spinner · #20 09/29/10, 11:01 PM

A friend of mine had a property with a deed like that. It turned out that the land was deeded to his wife, and all her siblings. If he outlived her, then her siblings could have taken his home from him. He chose to walk away from that property and buy somewhere else.

The only way to know for sure if it's worth pursuing, is to have a real estate lawyer look at it. Someone who specializes in real estate will know all the in's and out's of that type of deed and can advise you of the costs and probable outcome.