Well pump question

[DaniR1968]

Our well pump is going on and off way too often. Today I timed it and it is on for about 7 seconds then off for 40 when we are running water. I have talked to my husband and he asked one person who suggested there wasn't enough air in the tank. So, we drained it and refilled it and for a while it was not coming on and off as often but then it starts coming on too often again and we drain it again.

While draining it does work, something is going on to cause this to happen so often. Any ideas or ideas where I can get the answer?

[PD-Riverman]

Is your tank one of the Bladder tanks or one of the older style(non-bladder tanks??

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

Our well pump is going on and off way too often. Today I timed it and it is on for about 7 seconds then off for 40 when we are running water. I have talked to my husband and he asked one person who suggested there wasn't enough air in the tank. So, we drained it and refilled it and for a while it was not coming on and off as often but then it starts coming on too often again and we drain it again.

While draining it does work, something is going on to cause this to happen so often. Any ideas or ideas where I can get the answer?

[Jim-mi]

Have you added any air pressure to the tank . . . .??

Push to shove . .replace 'that tank' with a new bladder tank..........
................before you burn up your pump......

[agmantoo]

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

While draining it does work, something is going on to cause this to happen so often. Any ideas or ideas where I can get the answer?

Yes, you can get it repaired working with us here. Do you have any plumbing capability and a few tools? Can you following instructions? If yes to these questions then we will help you fix the problem.

[DaniR1968]

I believe this is the older type tank. Once the tank is drained, DH opens a valve to add air. Since it works well right after that, I've wondered if maybe the valve is faulty and leaking the air back out or something like that, but that was just me guessing.

DH has tools and follows instructions well. He doesn't have any real plumbing experience though.

In the meantime, I'm going to look at those bladder tanks.

Thanks

[7thswan]

The tank might be leaking.

[DaniR1968]

Is there any way to check that? I would sure hate to replace it and find that wasn't the problem.

[PD-Riverman]

If you had a "leak" and was loosing the air, it would also be loosing water at this leak and you would see the drip/leak. If its the older style tank it should have a air volume control on the side of the tank (or some where)that has a small line/tube running to the pump. This control is probably bad. This adds air to the tank so it does not get "water logged". Seemed very often I was replacing this control so I gave up and removed this control and added a air valve where this was and on the 1st of the month I would fill my portable air tank with air(120psi), go to the pump house, turn off the pump open a water valve, let the pressure drop to 20 or 30lb then start adding air, after a few seconds of adding air I would close the water valve then keep adding air and let the air pressure equalize in the air tank and water tank(on my tank was usually 50 to 60 psi). Turn the pump back on, Come back in a month and do it again. Only took a few minutes of my time, have not bought no more air volume controlls in the last 20 years. Good Luck

PS don't do like I did a few years ago---I changed my older tank for a new bladder tank then my Water started smelling like rotten eggs in a few days(sulfur smell). I put my old tank back in and kept adding air each month.

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

I believe this is the older type tank. Once the tank is drained, DH opens a valve to add air. Since it works well right after that, I've wondered if maybe the valve is faulty and leaking the air back out or something like that, but that was just me guessing.

DH has tools and follows instructions well. He doesn't have any real plumbing experience though.

In the meantime, I'm going to look at those bladder tanks.

Thanks

[Txrider]

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

I believe this is the older type tank. Once the tank is drained, DH opens a valve to add air. Since it works well right after that, I've wondered if maybe the valve is faulty and leaking the air back out or something like that, but that was just me guessing.

DH has tools and follows instructions well. He doesn't have any real plumbing experience though.

In the meantime, I'm going to look at those bladder tanks.

Thanks

There is nothing wrong really what is happening is normal. A plain galvanized water tank will become waterlogged (no air) because the air pocket trapped in it dissolves into the water naturally over time. It is what is supposed to happen

There are a few things you can do.

You can just keep draining it when this happens, as your DH is doing. Draining all the water out and catching as much air as possible each time.

You can install an air volume control valve setup, that automatically puts air into the tank each time the pump goes on and off. This works exceptionally well on a submersible pump well. It can be problematic on a well where your pump is above ground, but will still work fine if you get a good quality Air volume control valve. You may have one already that just needs replacing. Any good hardware store or water well place will have them. Cheap air control valves are just that, cheap and don't last long, even good ones are under $20

These Bradys are pretty good, except the bottom one. These are for an above ground pump setup.

http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/airvolcon.html

For a submersible pump (pump is down at the bottom of the well) there is a different setup for an air control valve. They work extremely well in keeping air in your tank. Again any water well place sells them and can give you instructions.


You can install a bladder tank, where the air is separated from the water because the air is inside a big balloon (bladder) inside the tank so it can't dissolve into the water.

But know that if you get a bladder tank, and there is any sulfur in the water you may start getting a sulfur smell to the water. Air in a tank will get rid of quite a bit of sulfur (rotten egg smell) as it dissolves into the water in the tank as it oxygenates the water. As well as a few other changes in the water that happen when the water is not oxygenated in the tank.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

Is there any way to check that? I would sure hate to replace it and find that wasn't the problem.

Agman2 will get you through the issue, might take a few steps, but he'll get it isolated.

If the tank has a leak, you should see water appear at some point. As the tank fills with water, it will get to where the water is over the leaky part.

Since you didn't say it ever leaked water....

Do you have a shraeder valve on the tank (looks like - well is - a tire valve like you see on a car tire)? Would that happen to be on the very top of the tank? These tire valves are used to add air to the tank with a typical air compressor - just like filling a tire.

Or any other plug or valve on the very top of the tank?

That is the only place where a tiny bubble of air would remain as your tank fills with water, so if you don't see any water leaks, then that would be the last place to leak.

You can fill a squirt bottle with soapy water, spray it on these valves/ plugs on the top of the tank, and a leak will be very obvious as it will blow bubbles.

It is common for those tire valves to leak over the years, esp once you start using them. The tiny bit of rubber in the seal gets old & hard. Very easy to replace, the inner part screws out & new one screws in. The outer cap on these valves is just to protect it, the actual sealing part is inside the valve, has a tiny doughnut of a seal inside the little metal rod in the middle....

--->Paul

[7thswan]

I'm not much help, but I had ours replaced. Paid about 120 for the tank, it was the biggest one they had at Home Depto, and a well driller a neighbor knows, put it in for me at $65. He told me that it was leaking so bad, I could have made a couple of house payments with the $$$ we were loosing on the pump going off and on. Good thing the submerged pump didn't burn out.

[DaniR1968]

I need to look at pictures but think we might have the air flow valve already. So, maybe it is bad. I know there is something on it between the pump and the tank.

The only place I see water is right under the pump itself, but not the tank. A pipe from the pump goes down into a pipe that is cemented. I will see water right there on the cement. I haven't seen any water on the ground below it.

I couldn't tell you if there is anything on top of the tank. Nothing I can think of off the top of my head. I don't think there is anything sticking up that would be noticable but there could be a plug. I will have a look when I get home and spray it with some soapy water if there is one. I do not recall any water on the ground around the tank that would indicate a leak. I'll look for any "trails" where water might have run.

We do have sulfer so I will not be getting a bladder tank.

Thanks all for the advice.

[Txrider]

Here's what an air volume control valve looks like, with an above ground pump.

It's the disk thing in the side of the tank, with line that runs down to a fitting on the suction side of the pump. The one in the pic is a cheaper made disposable one, and they do fail now and again. The better ones a handy fella can clean up and rebuild as they are basically just a rubber diaphragm, a spring and 2 ball check valves and have screws around the edge of the disk so you can take em apart.




If you have a submerged pump, it will be totally different system.

If your water smells less like sulfur or no sulfur after your DH drains the tank, I would keep the tank you have, maybe even get a larger one.

A galvanized tank will only get rid of a certain amount of sulfur smell if you keep a good air pocket in it, air can only dissolve into the water so fast. For lots of sulfur you have to use more serious means of getting oxygen to the water.

If it is really an annoyance I could go into the methods I have found to work best to get rid of any and all sulfur smells no matter how bad they are.

My favorite well setup is a 120 gallon galvanized tank, with a submersible pump, and a good submersible air volume control system.

[DaniR1968]

That is exactly what is on the tank. We'll be taking care of replacing that real soon and hopefully that will take care of that problem.

Now hopefully our electric bill will be a little lower!

Thanks everyone for the advice.

[agmantoo]

DaniR1968

If you plan on remaining in the home and using that well there are a couple of cheap modifications you can do that will aid tremendously with the current and future maintenance on the system. A ball valve should be installed on the line going to the storage tank. A second ball valve needs to be installed on the water outlet pipe leaving the tank. A working pressure gauge should be installed on the tank side of one of these valves I mentioned. These parts should cost less than $25 but will save hours of wasted effort and tons of frustration.

From what I have garnered above you must have a non bladder tank and an above ground pump, is that correct? I want to know the rough dimensions of the tank.

[DaniR1968]

It is not a bladder type tank and the pump is above ground. It looks a lot like the picture posted except the pump is upright and to this side of the tank.

Guessing, the tank is a about 5 1/2 feet talk. It's not big around or really narrow. It's about the size of any other tank I've seen on a pump well. I'll ask my husband if he knows when I talk to him.

Now, I'm hoping it will quit raining so I can go get the parts on my way home.

Thanks for the help

[DaniR1968]

My husband changed the valve yesterday and it's working correctly now. Thanks everyone.

[swollen tongue]

get yourself a bladder tank and save the problems for someone else.

[DaniR1968]

We have too much sulfer in our water for a bladder tank. It would smell like rotten eggs! Yuck!