WWYD Easement

norcalfarm · #1 09/11/10, 12:20 AM

Okay, my apology in advance. This is going to be long but it has to be in order for me to explain.

I own land that is on a very old road. Every house up to mine and the one across from me, have legal access by easement through this road. Beyond my parcel is over a thousand acres of land-locked property in parcels ranging from 4 to 100 acres. The road shows up on a map as though it were a freeway and continues long past my land, however the county shows that it is private. We built about a year ago and have joined local neighbors in assuring that nobody accesses their land through our property. Now they have basically given up and handed the fight off to me so I'm not getting a whole lot of help.

Recently, the parcel across from me sold. As soon as it closed escrow, they began developing it. In order for them to get to their property they drive the road to the far corner of my land and then turn so that I can't tell what goes on for the most part. As is becoming far too common in this state, they are growing "legal" marijuana, and a lot of it. There are several guys camped out on it all day every day.

Now, Ever since purchasing our property, I have hoped to buy up some land behind me to graze animals or for recreation etc. Recently I overheard a very loud talking man on the phone on their property. He was talking about how "there was all this privately owned property behind them... let's get all of our ducks in a row... we are ready for them." You can fill in the blanks but I know that my guess would be that they are planning to purchase this landlocked property and that they want to find people with perscriptions and expand their grow operation. Let me add that they already have about 5 to 7 acres of marijuana growing. In addition, I have talked to two of them recently who subtly asked me what the story with the land behind us was.

So I am torn, their intentions as far as locating themselves where they did to buy more land is not unlike my own but because of their motive I struggle with what I should do if they act on this.

I'm not sure what my options are but I would assume that they are something like these:

#1 When I find that they purchased more land, sell them an easement. The problem with this is that if they ever sell, I could have many more neighbors.

#2 I believe I can have a "cease and desist" issued and/or a restraining order.

#3 Take them to court, although I estimate that they are making close to 1 million dollars a year split a few ways so I believe that they could buy a victory in court.

#4 Just give up and accept that they are going to do what they do.

I know of a lady who has been in a court battle over an easement for several years and she is probably one of the most miserable people I know, it has taken everything out of her, including all of her money.

I appreciate any advice that you can offer. I don't know what to do. I've been very successful in running off the owners of these landlocked parcels in the past but being that they have access through their own property (which I don't know is actually legal), I am at a loss. The other thing is that they are all very nice respectful people for the most part so I really am not looking forward to ----ing them off.

Thanks, Jason

Pops2 · #2 09/11/10, 01:53 AM

pay some bikers to burn them out & be semi obvious about doing it so suspicion isn't cast on you.

Bearfootfarm · #3 09/11/10, 07:40 AM

Many states don't allow the sale of "landlocked " parcels, so there may not really be anything you can legally do to stop the access.

You may not LIKE it, but what they are doing is legal, and it's THEIR land.

You need to ask a lawyer about easement laws there

MO_cows · #4 09/11/10, 07:48 AM

Consult with an attorney. Just a consultation won't cost that much and you'll know what your rights and options are.

barelahh · #5 09/11/10, 07:52 AM

well its legal, so you really don't have an option. Since it is legal, and since you do have easment rights, then why not make it pay off for you. Barter. IF they are making millions, then why not get a piece of the action and ask for a percentage of the take. PLUS have them pay for the number of acres you would like that is adoining your property. Shrug thats what i would do. Then not only that, why not sell the easement with the clause that if they leave that the easement reverts back to you. THat solves the future problem.

norcalfarm · #6 09/11/10, 09:15 AM

Thank you, I do plan to speak to an attorney. I do realize that it is THEIR land and that it is legal for them to do what they are doing. I honestly don't care that much if it stayed small. Personally I disagree with it. My issue is the traffic more than anything. It's began to slow since they are all set up now but during their initial ground work, we had twenty or more vehicles per day going in and out. My issue more than anything is that they are essentially breaking the zoning laws but I don't think that LE will do anything about it.

I have had friends suggest that we get in on the action and require a take. Maybe if they do actually buy more land, I will do just that if they want access to other parcels.

I'll have to see if you can give temporary access. I do know that after seven years, it become a prescriptive easement.

Navotifarm · #7 09/11/10, 10:47 AM

Well, laws differ and in some jurisdictions it is 20 years to get easement by adverse possession and merely a law suit to get prescriptive easement.
The owners of the property behind you, that you say is landlocked are where I would start if you goal is to acquire land and expand your operation. Looks like they are over a barrel so now's the time to make your move. That's a lot of land somebody is paying taxes on and probably not cheap in California. Since your real goal is to own land adjoining you, why not concentrate on that first?
If you go to the average lawyer, remEmber they make money from dissent. They get paid by the hour not the job, so thAt you are looking at $5,000 and three years if you try to block access. You might win or you might just pour all your money down the drain be tied up for years (they say three years but it's a crap shoot and could be many more or less).
Alternatively, If you sell an easement (it's unclear from your TLI too little information), then what about others who share the present access? Will all the others on your road join you? Not likely. People are perverse not to mention what decent citizen wants. An illegal operation going on next door? Or uh oh this is California. Is that LEGAL marijuana? Yikes.
I am a person who has had 18 years of misery over an easement situation. The law itself has a number of solutions, all quite simple and fair. The land behind you had access at one time. The first thing to do is search chains of title to that property and the adjoining properties including old plats. There is a little quirk. If there was a main access and it's visible to the eye, older deeds and plats done in kinder days did not necessarily refer to it. Also in the days of horses and model T's roads were only 18-20 feet so even if there is access that can be shown from the old records it won't be adequate by today's standards calling for 50 feet for modern emergency vehicles and all. If yours is a private road, there needs to be a road maintenance agreement between all the persons using the road. If you all have such agreement and the back land guy does not and he didn't pay his dues even if he has a legal right to access his land tough noogies for him.
Your posting is confusing as to the illegal activities. The feds are always looking for money. Maybe they will wait till these guys have a really profitable set up, then bust them and confiscate the property. It might behoove you to go to the nearest federal courthouse and blow the whistle on them to the fbi. That way when the bust comes you are not charged as accessory, you only get dragged over the coals as a witness. If this was just a straight fair access situation, the owner of the "landlocked" parcel would sue ALL the neighbors, whether they were actively blocking is way or not. The judge would review the evidence and award acess over the shortest distance to the county hard topped road.
Locally we had a developer put in an entire subdivision off one access. With permits. By law he required a second access so when his subdivision was established, he sued the neighboring unsuspecting farmer and won. So now the farmer has his land split by a 50 foot road with urbanites destroying his right to peaceful occupation of his land. Perhaps if he had anticipated this he could have sold the access instead of having it taken from him by a form of eminet domain and taking money out of his pocket to fill a lawyer's pockets. You have sure got a mess and I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg. I sure want to know what happens next! I thought I had problems but they are nothing compared to yours. Oh, well, it'll keep your mind sharp.

norcalfarm · #8 09/11/10, 11:02 AM

Navotifarm, As far as the legality of their operation, The feds have said that unless there is more than 100 plants on one parcel they will not touch it. Now, speaking to people I know in law enforcement, the rumor is that the feds will not touch anything in California unless it is on federal lands. I have already been in contact with owners of the properties behind me. Most for some reason are not that willing to negotiate, holding on the the idea that someday they will be allowed access. My wife is also nervous to contact many of them in fear that it will spark their interest (most live out of the area), come visit and realize that they could get much more than we can offer. Now the problem is that while I could pay a few thousand dollars for a landlocked parcel, my neighbors could throw $50 to $100,000 at it.

texican · #9 09/11/10, 11:12 AM

If it's legal, grow your own medical marijuana, and buy the thousand acres yourself.

It's saturday, and my mind isn't as sharp as it is on weekdays.... but the folks who have bought the land next to you, and growing medical weed, are trying to buy the 1k acres? and they have an easement? IF they have a legal easement to their current property, and that property butts up against the large 1k tract, they'll automatically get an easement to the 1k.... they 'might' have to access it through their current tract, but what the hey!

Seriously, if you can grow legal weed... do it! I would. I don't approve or use it, but if it were legal, I'd grow the befreakus out of it. There's no crop more valuable. Of course, at some point the price will drop down to the price of cigarettes, and the 'millions' will disappear into a regular cash crop (lots of work, little pay) type situation.

You can either do something (grow million dollar crops) and buy the land, or don't, and allow someone else to do it...

good luck....

Patt · #10 09/11/10, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barelahh

well its legal, so you really don't have an option. Since it is legal, and since you do have easment rights, then why not make it pay off for you. Barter. IF they are making millions, then why not get a piece of the action and ask for a percentage of the take. PLUS have them pay for the number of acres you would like that is adoining your property. Shrug thats what i would do. Then not only that, why not sell the easement with the clause that if they leave that the easement reverts back to you. THat solves the future problem.

I agree with this. It's legal, it isn't going to go away so make it as win/win for you as possible.

HOTW · #11 09/11/10, 12:33 PM

I don't have an issue with medical marijuana as long as it stays for medical purposes. It's the side business that has me worried. Once people realize its there you might have unsavory characters trying to steal it. That's what would worry me!

Navotifarm · #12 09/11/10, 12:44 PM

This is a sample of why it's good to put at least your state on here. In Virginia near me, two guys were growing marijuana. One lived in a ratty old mobile home. The other had a beautiful brick home he designed and laid every brick. The feds seized the brick home and sold it after they put both guys away but they didn't bother with the trailer. They seized a UVa fraternity house, too, just because of a couple of kids with weed. In order to solve aCcess problems, once of the best ways is to simply buy the land the access goes over. My feeling is, the mj guys are way ahead of you as already suggested by our texas pal above who has done a lot of title work. My thought is to save what you can. Take a leaf out of the mj book and give access to whatever is behind you. Swap access for land. Beat them to the punch with whoever is behind you. Those folks waiting for the problem to go away are losing ground with every tick of the clock. They are waiting for someone to solve their problem and that someone could be you. I know a lot about access having learned under the gun - literally - but hardly anything about mj except baking it into brownies and eating it. We don't have it legal in my bailiwick! But we do have barter. Find out a ball park estimate as to getting access to a parcel behind you. Since uou can give access over your land, there's your barter down payment! But they have to pay to build the driveway.....

bruce2288 · #13 09/11/10, 05:26 PM

"I have been successful in running off these people who own the land behind us" I'm glad I am not your neighbor. Around here many parcels of land are landlocked and access not only freely given but virtually expected by the community. It is part of being a good neighbor. It would be fitting if someone bought a border next to your place and then all of the land behind it came available.

fantasymaker · #14 09/11/10, 08:12 PM

Why is the road acess ok for you but not the people behind you? It sounds from what you say as if the old road went back to the other parcels at one time.

norcalfarm · #15 09/11/10, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce2288

"I have been successful in running off these people who own the land behind us" I'm glad I am not your neighbor. Around here many parcels of land are landlocked and access not only freely given but virtually expected by the community. It is part of being a good neighbor. It would be fitting if someone bought a border next to your place and then all of the land behind it came available.

You obviously know nothing about my situation. I have had people buy twenty acres for a few thousand dollars behind me, knowing there was no legal access, and then show up with contractors and threatening to bring a bulldozer onto my land. If they asked, I'd probably work something out but if they show up threatening me, then it is another story. I have yet to have somebody ask. I paid good money for my land and I don't think that the people who buy land for some change deserve free access. I am an excellent neighbor and I find it funny that you want to lecture me publicly on how to coexist with others in a neighborhood which you know nothing about.

norcalfarm · #16 09/11/10, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

Why is the road acess ok for you but not the people behind you? It sounds from what you say as if the old road went back to the other parcels at one time.

Without giving you my full situation so that if by some chance they are reading, the basic facts are as follows. The road was planned and put on a map long ago without ever having been put in. The road's construction was cancelled due to a local circumstance that made it become unnecessary but remains on maps looking like a freeway. There are a handful of properties who gave one another easement a while back using the same strip of land that was originally planned. The county does not maintain the road, nor do they have it on the books as a public road, meaning that only those with easements can use it. Nobody beyond me has ever shown that they have an easement. There are many other roads that are every bit as close to these properties as mine and many would have to cross far fewer parcels than my road in order to extend to them. I hope that clears it up a little for you.

Navotifarm · #17 09/11/10, 11:17 PM

I am not criticizing you. There's obviously a major entanglement there. I hope you create workable solutions to some of the problems foisted on you. Good luck!

Pelenaka · #18 09/11/10, 11:30 PM

I would beef up my security measures & preps - when u are dealing with a person's paycheck it becomes personal.
What type of security do these mj farmers have? 'Cause I gotta say it is only a matter of time before the boyz in the hood realize that a five fingered discount is so much easier than dragging weed over/under the border. I'm surprised that your neighbors haven't looked up to see a caravan of pimped out hummers comming up over the hill.

Have you checked into becomming a pro bono case? This would make a great class project, any good lawyer schools around ?

~~ pelenaka ~~

norcalfarm · #19 09/12/10, 08:00 AM

Navotifarm, I know you were not criticizing me, thank you for your input.

Pelenaka, You would be amazed at the situation here in California. Not long ago, I was worried about the exact same thing. There is so much mj growing in the rural parts of this state that it would be easier to count those who do not grow than it is to count those who grow. You can see the huge plantations from main roads all over. I have several great neighbors but all of them have grows ops going, it's just something that we have had to accept. Thank you, I will have to look into the pro bono thing, still not sure that I think it's worth dealing with court and having them hate me forever.

rambler · #20 09/12/10, 10:40 AM

Someday that land will be developed, and someday your easement will become the main public road to there.

Plan for that.

It _is_ how things will shake out. You are the point of least resistance, the road is already there. When someone needs access, they will follow the least exsistance. Judge will eventually side with them, over having to create a new road over several people's land. Your road is already there.

So, you need to plan for how you get the most out of this eventually becoming the main access road to a large area.

--->Paul