Do I really need a plow?

[Callieslamb]

We are looking at tractors. We don't need a big one - just to brushhog/mow the pastures when they get overgrown ( or before). Maybe a little blade work, moving some hay bales would be nice (smaller bales). I am also still interested in growing an acre of corn or some such feed crop and grazing the amimals on that during the late fall/early winter. To raise crops do you HAVE to have a plow? Can a disk do the work okay? No hills, no rocks, mostly flat fields with a tip to the south; sandy loam soil. I would like to do without out any piece of equipment I would have to store just to use only once a year. Storing implements would take up valuable space here.

If I don't need a plow, what do I need? (I know NOTHING about preparing the soil for crops) If I do need a plow and disk, is there anything else? We can rent a seeder from the feed store in town.

[MississippiSlim]

Live in South Mississippi and never owned a plow. Disc, section harrow and cultivator for row crops and Disc and section harrow for grasses. I think planting oats you may need a chisel plow or something but have now experience in that. Guess it depends on your area and soil.

[watcher]

It depends on what you are calling a "plow" and how much work you want to do yourself.

When you say "plow" to me I think of an implement which you use to cultivate crops; i.e. break up the soil a bit and clip weeds off around the roots. If you are going to use a hoe to chop the weeds or use chemical weed control then you don't need a plow.

Now a "breaking plow" is used to turn the upper layer of soil over so the ground cover is turned root up. This kills off the ground cover and allows it to to decompose in the soil releasing the nutrients. Unless you are going to plant ground cover very often or have a lot of land which has never been farmed before you most likely can get away w/o having a breaking plow.

[geo in mi]

I have a one bottom plow that gets used on the sodded garden plot when I need to turn it under. Otherwise I use a disc to chop up stuff and an old field cultivator to till up soil. All are three point tools that I use behind a 9N Ford (1941) TSC offers a small chisel plow for a reasonable price, but it won't turn the soil over. You might check a few places for a rear-mounted(again,3 point hitch) toolbar upon which you could hook up a planter. TSC has a rear mounted platform frame for a tote box(about $100) A Ford N will run a five foot bushhog, if the tractor is in good condition. For the 9N and 2N you will need a "Zane Thang" for position control (Google Yesterday's Tractors for info on the Zane Thang).... And a PTO override clutch for the bushhog.

geo

[wy_white_wolf]

Depends on how compacted or sodded your soil is.

If it's heavily compacted or sodded most likely you will need a plow for at least the first year. After that just a disc should work unless it starts to compact again.

If not compacted than just a disc should do.

Do you need to irrigate corn in your area? If yes than you will need a way to cultivate it. Since it's only 1 acre you might be able to do that by hand. But that's a lot of hoeing!

[FarmboyBill]

U dont say what hp tractor your looking for. BUT UNLESS is 50 or above , It wont pull a diisc deep enopugh to turn under native grasses deep enough to farm the ground. The idea behind plowing, is not only to turn over the ground to begin for preperation, But also to put the above ground dead vegetation under far enough to rot. Its also to put live vegetation far enough underground, that it takes quite a bit of time, say 2 weeks, to a month, to be a serious threat to what youve planted.

BUT, After youve plowed, you HAVE to disc it in order to get those furrows chopped up, and the clods made smaller. There is no way you can plant corn or any grass seed, and expect to make any much kind of crop if you do this. Maybe you could make 25% of a crop. MAYBE make your seed planted back, Probably not.

Your chances of makeing such a crop if planted on DISCED ground, are better, by 25%, and that improves another 25% if you harrow the ground after discing twice, or as its called double discing, and then harrowing it.

So, It gets down to how much of a crop you want to see on your ground.

If you could say, Well, I should get 70bu of corn off my acre, but I want to just plow it and sow the corn in the furrows, If you could then rent say another 20/30 acres and just plow it, and sow the seed corn, You MIGHT have the 70bu. BUT u cant do that. U got an acre, as you say. So were back to where I more or less started. Do you want to just disc it a doz times, and then sow the corn wherever it falls, disc it again to cover it, this over virgin grass ground I assume, And take the chance, that youll likely get nothing but a few spindly stalks, with fewer popcorn sized ears. OR, do u want to plow, disc, harrow, fertilize, plant in rows, and cultivate inbewtween those rows, for a MUCH better crop. Its your acre. AND, were it me, Id sow Haygrazer, if your only doing an acre, and your going to feed it to cows.

WATCHER, Pardon the termenalogy. Where I came from < Kans, We called a plow a plow, and we plowed the ground with it. We called a cultivator a cultivator, but we plowed corn with it, or milo, or soybeans, ect. We also laid by our corn on the 3rd cvultivation. That didnt mean we went to sleep by it after we were done. Also, Im assumeing your talking about regular farm fields thats been planted year after year, for a century thereabouts, with disc, harrow and (im assumeing) a field cultivator, not a row crop cultivator. Not pastureland thats been in grass for years.

Callie. Sounds like youd fit in here in Okla. All the locals think they should be able to do anything with just a tractor, disc, , post hole augur, trailer, mower, rake bailer, brush hog, And when they find they cant, they just make hay. If they need anything else, They buy borrow, steal it, use it, then sell it so it isnt laying around.

[Callieslamb]

thanks guys. We are not growing corn for a crop so to speak, but to graze the cows in to extend the pasture time. I don't even really care if it makes large ears. My idea was to treat the field-planted corn like I do in my garden- under sow with clover. Then I just leave it and let grow what will grow. I will not irrigate. The guy next door doesn't and his plants are plenty healthy (this year anyway).

Let's see if I have this right.
1. Plow to turn over the green stuff that is there - there's plenty of that. Our soil is sandy to loamy. I tilled some pasture into garden last year with a walk behind tiller and no problems whatsoever. Get a tractor big enough to pull the plow that will turn it all over

2. disk to break up the plow hills and then disk again.
3. harrow after disking? or after seeding? I think of a harrow as something that you drag behind to cover seeds or smooth the soil down even more.
4. Plant
5. Till/cultivate
6. put the cows in it.
7. Sell the plow and disk and start looking for a new one for next year.

Isn't a tractor to a farmer what a horse is to a cowboy? Anywork that can't be done on it doesn't need to be done?

We're actually just trying to find something else to do with our land besides make hay. My baler didn't even come this year so I am forking out $1200 for hay (unles we have a very, very mild winter). Since I started feeding it yesterday (no rain) I doubt it this will be short-hay winter. If I can grow some feed to extend the pasture or supplement the hay, maybe raise 2-3 jersey heifers, sell some lambs, put in a U-pick...I might come out even for the hay. At which point I ask myself why I wanted a few acres in the first place. I do appreciate all the information.

[wogglebug]

If you've got pasture and you've got stock walking on it, then you get deep tracks. They will keep walking where they've walked before. Seriously, you can get tracks six inches wide and nine inches deep with no trouble at all. Heck to drive over, or even to drive stock across rather than along. You need to be able to level that off, which means ploughing it every four years or so.

[springvalley]

Callie, personaly I think if I just had an acre to worry about, I wouldn`t worry about it.
Then again if you have hay ground you are not getting baled, why not buy hay equipment instead of buying a plow,disc,harrow,planter,cultivator. It wouldn`t cost ya that much to get hay equipment, you would need a mower, rake, baler and racks. I would much rather bale hay than plant corn, for a good many years you could buy corn cheaper than you could grow it. Another option is no till, you spray the heck out of it, fertilize it, plant it, and spray the heck out of it again, no worries. So I guess its up to you, what you want to do, but I think I would get me my own hay equipment. >Thanks Marc

[Wis Bang 2]

If you have sandy, loamy soil that you cultivate w/ a roto tiller, why not look at a medium size tractor and add a 3 point roto tiller to do your acre?

[FarmboyBill]

Because WB she dosent want to keep ANY kind of machinery around the place, Especially EXPENSIVE machinery.



I agree with marc, AND That would go with my recommendation to grow haygrazer. If u got hay land besides this plow acre, Then id say put it in Haygrazer, and haying it along with whatever else u got. If what youve got is pararie hay, or grass of some kind, Youll have to hay the haygrazer oftener.

[Callieslamb]

Originally Posted by springvalley

Callie, personaly I think if I just had an acre to worry about, I wouldn`t worry about it.
Then again if you have hay ground you are not getting baled, why not buy hay equipment instead of buying a plow, disc, harrow, planter, cultivator. ..................Thanks Marc

We oringinally started this with the idea of doing our own hay. We have 7 acres total with about 5 available to use for our farming. The other 2 includes garden and small orchard so I don't have to account for them. Hay is expensive to produce. Our fields have been neglected for several years and the weeds are creeping in. Okay, they're galloping. We put down $385 worth of lime last year. Decided not to fertilize - that would have been $800 and a total reseed is $1500. My buddy, Blackwillowfarm, figured buying hay was 50 cents more a bale than producing it herself. I will probably need less than 300 bales of hay. For us aging ladies...that isn't such a bad price. DH is always a willing helper, but hay can't wait until DH is off work - or back in the country or whatever other excuse he can come up with.

I have 7 total acres. 5 are available for some kind of farming pursuit. The garden and small orchard are accounted for in the other 2 acres so I don't need to allow space for those. But an acre of implements....with weeds growing around them.....? Hum..... Guess I would have those either way. You know all this is just an excuse to get a tractor.

But, yes, we can still just produce our own hay. It's one of our options.

[Callieslamb]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Because WB she dosent want to keep ANY kind of machinery around the place, Especially EXPENSIVE machinery.

I agree with marc, AND That would go with my recommendation to grow haygrazer. If u got hay land besides this plow acre, Then id say put it in Haygrazer, and haying it along with whatever else u got. If what youve got is pararie hay, or grass of some kind, Youll have to hay the haygrazer oftener.

Are tractor tillers expensive?

You mentiknoed haygrazer before. I thought it was a variety of corn. What is it? Do you need special equipment to bale corn?

[Callieslamb]

Originally Posted by wogglebug

If you've got pasture and you've got stock walking on it, then you get deep tracks. They will keep walking where they've walked before. Seriously, you can get tracks six inches wide and nine inches deep with no trouble at all. Heck to drive over, or even to drive stock across rather than along. You need to be able to level that off, which means ploughing it every four years or so.

Yes, we have those. So does the neighbor now that we pastured on his 2 acres this year....Oops!

[rambler]

Corn is actually a pretty fussy crop to grow - you need to corntorl weeds very very well when it gets to about 4-5 leaves. corn will stop growing at that point, and develop it's root system. Very little visible growth for a week or 2 at this time. THEN it springs to life and shoots for the sky!!!

But - if weeds shade it at that root growth time, the corn will forget about it's roots and try to grow with the weeds. This totally messes up the corn, and it will never ever recover that year. Field corn properly grown 'here' can get 175-200+ bushels per acre. If you let those weeds shade the corn, but do everything else the same, you'll struggle to see 100 bu an acre.

My point is, if you want to raise feed for your livestock, you need to so a _good_ job of farming. You can't throw seed in the ground, and let 'grow what may', and think you'll have something for the cattle to harvest in fall. You have to pay attention to the details if your goal is to make feed cheaper than you can buy it.

You likely can get more feed value from a good grass/legume mix of pasture mixes than you would get with an acre of poorly grown corn - which is what some were getting at with the haygrazer stuff. Corn you need to plant every year, the grass if tended to will be there for a decade or more with less work.

As to the tractor - I have 7 I know they are cool to have - if you want to breeak up grass sod that you have now, you either need a real plow, or you need a good tractor tiller.

The tiller will work well for 2 acres or less, and it will do much of what you want - it breaks up sod with a little effort, and it leaves a smooth seed bed.

If you plow, you need to field cultivate or disk to level the rough soil, then harrow to smooth it to a seedbed. Then plant, harrow again in 7 days to kill the weeds, then cultivate - or hoe - every 7th day to kill the many weed seedlings that come up. If you skip cultivating until you see green weeds, you have lost the corn - the weeds will wreck the corn. Weed early, weed often.

So, you are looking at a plow, disk, harrow, and row cultivator (or hoe & elbow grease).

Or, a tiller, harrow, and cultivator (and elbow grease).

It is possible if your soil is a bit sandy that you can get one of the old Ford/ Dearborne/ other brands of digger, which looks like a field cultivator, sometimes is called a chisel plow in some regions... It is somewhere in between, strong springs on it with good shanks, but no where near a real chisel plow. This implement can be had for $300 or less (sometimes $100), and would likely take the place of a plow and disk for you for such a small plot.

A small disk would not work up the sod you want to work up. A tiller will. A strong digger will probalby.

Farming is less about a certain piece of machinery, and more about paying attention to the details. You can make a lot of different techniques work - you can plant directly into your sod with no tillage at all and get a good stand of corn, no plow needed. IF you use a notill drill, and spray the sod 3x over the year. The planter will cost you many thousands tho....

Anyhow, you can make different things work depending on your soil.

--->Paul

[springvalley]

Callie, do you still have some good grasses in your field? I don`t think you would have to reseed right away. And you could do some reseeding without doing any field work. You can reseed on the hay field as you have it now, red clover and some grasses could be seeded on the field with sucsess. If you could start cutting the hay on a regular basis the weeds will thin out and let the grasses come back.>Thanks Marc

[Molly Mckee]

A new 3 pt rototiller is around 2500.00-used is much less, if you can find one.
We make about 100 acres of hay a year, we have grown corn,and other crops. In my opinion, five acres isn't enough to justify the cost of equipment for either corn or hay. The one thing no one has mentioned is that older farm equipment breaks down often and parts are expensive. If you can't fix it yourself and have to pay a mechanic it is even more expensive. And if you think it is hard to find some one to make hay, try to find some one to fix your baler. New equipment is very expensive--and it breaks as well. It will be much cheaper to buy the feed you need and pasture the five acres. It will also be much less annoying!
A tractor with a bucket and maybe a blade for moving dirt and snow would be something you would find very useful.

[motdaugrnds]

Well, I can testify to the fact one does "not" need a tractor and such heavy tractor tools to put in and keep a pasture and/or garden. We have a 6-acre homestead with about 4 acres for pasture and 1 acre for a garden. We use a DR Field & Brush Mower and a Troybilt Tiller. Yes, these are 8 Hp and walk-behinds; so it takes some manual labor to get the job done. However, I am 68 yrs old with arthritis in my right hip and I get the job done with just these two tools. (I must admit, it would be real nice to have a small tractor that could mow/bale our orchard grass. It takes a lot out of me to hand rake it and haul it to the loft.)

[FarmboyBill]

Haygrazer is a crop that grows somewhat like milo, and is ofthat family. Its formal english name is hybred Sudex. Sometimes called Sudex/sudan. It will grow up to 15ft if u let it. I have. never again. Cutting it with a horse mower, I would look back and at the instant the mower cut it, it would hop once, then fall like a giant redwood tree, slow and graceful. The stalks are bigger than your thumb at the base, and the stalk is FULL of liquid. It almost cannot be dried laying in the field. By the time the stalk would be dried enough to rake it, The leaves would be dried out to nothing.
BUT, If you let it get a foot, 16in tall and cut it, Youll be cutting it every month nearly. If u had it growing now, and you cut it last in mid July, You likely would want to cut it sometime this month, at the highth I suggested. THEn, let it grow again to around the same highth NO HIGHER THAN 16in, 12 in way better. Then plow it down BEFORE FROST. It has prussic acid in it that forms after frost and if anything eats it, it can kill them. BUT, if you get it plowed under, it makes a HUGE amount of green manure, If after you plow it down, and disc it and harrow it, AND THEN plant rye grass, Yoiu likely wouldnt have to fertilize, for any other crop except corn. AND if you did that 2 yrs out of three, and planted corn the third year, You shouldnt have to fertilize. If you have the idea that you want to grow corn to feed chickens, or other fowl, one acre probably wont do it UNLESS, When it sprouts, You have already started sprouting corn in some kind of cxontainer, say for an acre sprout 5lbs. What you dont use, you can feed to chickens. Plant the rows say 16in apart, and plant the corn 6/8in apart in the row. THEN, when the corn is say 4/6in high, go out and replant the gaps, and empty spaces, and continue doing this until you either run out of corn transplants, or the entire acre stays planted with no gaps, or openings. Then you might have 100bu. That is enough to feed a farm sized flock of chickens, a few turkeys, and ducks. COURSE, you would have to buy a sheller (O NO, DONT SAY IT BILL). Cut the stalks, and make shocks out of them. Load the shocks onto a hay rack, and bring them to the barnyard. Buy a limb chipper, (O NO< NOT MORE MACHINERY??). Run the stalks through the chipper AFTER shucking out the corn. Put the ear corn in a crib WITHOUT shucks, and build a silo or sorts out of 8ft high1in X 2in rabbit wire. load the husks onto the hay rack, and scoop them into the silo, and then cover it, makeing sure that it WILL remain high in the center, Then come winter, Feed the shucks to any steers you may have. Hogs will eat them too, but they waste also.
If, after the last cultivation, which should be when the corn is touching the crossbars of your cultivator, or waste high, which is nearly the same thing, you went out with a cyclone seeder and sowed haygrazer over the corn, You MIGHT have somewhat of a hay or grazeing area after the corn is brought in.

I intend to let my milk cow roam around the barnyard, includeing the machinery lot/area. She will clean up any grass around the machinery, as good as I could want. My dad kept a milk cow in a lot behind the barn all the time. She never saw green grass, just alfalfa hay and corn. That way, in his old age, he didnt have to go rounding up the cow in the evening every night. He kept the stock cows out on the pasture, or stock fields after harvest. I think I can let a cow roam around the yard/barnyard, and she can get her eats there, and I can pretty easily clean up after her whenever I run onto the need to. I would run her into the barn lot in the evening for evening milking, and morning milking, then turn her back loose into the yard. I would have to fence out the mkt gardern, bvut thats no real trouble. Shes getting her daily feed, shes close to the house, I likely would know just where she was if she didnt answer to her call, and im getting the grass somewhat kept down, and the grass is going to some use other than clogging up the yard, when mowed.

[FarmboyBill]

To the end of my next to last para. OR you could use it for some plowdown green manure, and overseed with ryegrass.