grain with bugs hatching

melco · #1 08/28/10, 11:14 AM

I have a bucket of grain that was in a warm place this summer has some bugs hatching.

I could just kick myself. Anyway, I am thinking of sticking the bucket into a freezer that I have to kill the bugs and future hatchings. My concern is when I pull the bucket out condensation and possible mold or mildew. How would you handle this. It is about 2/3 of a bucket and I am not totally opposed to just throw it to the chickens of that is what it comes to, just trying to save it if I can. This is grain I mill for baking purposes.

Navotifarm · #2 08/28/10, 11:36 AM

wrap your bucket up good in a plastic trash bag or two. that should keep moisture out of the bucket. Then when you take it out of the freezer, the condensation and defrosting should take place outside on the plastic. But do you really want to enhance your protein content of your bread by grinding up bugs and bug eggs and larvae in that grain? Wouldn't you really rather upgrade your chickens' protein intake???? Perhaps you should just buy some new grain and freeze it from now on?

big rockpile · #3 08/28/10, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

wrap your bucket up good in a plastic trash bag or two. that should keep moisture out of the bucket. Then when you take it out of the freezer, the condensation and defrosting should take place outside on the plastic. But do you really want to enhance your protein content of your bread by grinding up bugs and bug eggs and larvae in that grain? Wouldn't you really rather upgrade your chickens' protein intake???? Perhaps you should just buy some new grain and freeze it from now on?

All grain has Bugs.

big rockpile

Callieslamb · #4 08/28/10, 12:01 PM

Well, all grain probably has bug eggs in it. I have had bags of wheat opened for months that haven't have eggs hatched.

I think you should just toss this bucket. The bugs are probably all the way through the grain so it would be very difficult to sift them out. The chickens will love you.

big rockpile · #5 08/28/10, 12:07 PM

When I worked at the Bakery we just sifted them out.

Seed plant sprayed them.

big rockpile

Navotifarm · #6 08/28/10, 12:25 PM

If you read health department food regulations they have specific measures as to allowable percentages of insect life and rat feces so, sure, all grain and grain products have some unsavory enhancements. However, I am sure glad I never bought any cupcakes at Big Rockpile's Bakery. If the insects were big enough to see and sift out, especially after they had been "sprayed," barf!!!!

I recently opened a sealed round container of Quaker Oats which I bought at a grocery store and was horrified by the Other Life Forms I saw in there, so it's not just whole grains that get "allowable percentages of bugs" these days. From now on, I'm putting all my oatmeal in the freezer for a week or so. I wonder if there is an allowable percentage of salmonella?

Some preppers who have buckets of grain treat them with dry ice to fumigate and kill the insect life before they seal their buckets, don't they? There's probably better methods than freezing.

tinknal · #7 08/28/10, 12:44 PM

Just keep it in the freezer until you use it.

big rockpile · #8 08/28/10, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

If you read health department food regulations they have specific measures as to allowable percentages of insect life and rat feces so, sure, all grain and grain products have some unsavory enhancements. However, I am sure glad I never bought any cupcakes at Big Rockpile's Bakery. If the insects were big enough to see and sift out, especially after they had been "sprayed," barf!!!!

I recently opened a sealed round container of Quaker Oats which I bought at a grocery store and was horrified by the Other Life Forms I saw in there, so it's not just whole grains that get "allowable percentages of bugs" these days. From now on, I'm putting all my oatmeal in the freezer for a week or so. I wonder if there is an allowable percentage of salmonella?

Some preppers who have buckets of grain treat them with dry ice to fumigate and kill the insect life before they seal their buckets, don't they? There's probably better methods than freezing.

Well the Bakery is Nation wide.

big rockpile

Woodroe · #9 08/28/10, 02:31 PM

Diatomaceous Earth

melco · #10 08/28/10, 03:10 PM

Okay, excuse my ignorance but what is the difference in eating a dead hatched bug as opposed to an egg. I am being totally serious. I figured I have always known there were eggs in the grain so what is the difference if there are hatched eggs. I have never had an issue with eggs hatching either. This is from a bucket that I moved into our storage bldg for a bit of time in the winter and forgot about it. With the temps as high as they have been I figured the eggs hatched. I also want to add it isnt swarming with bugs that I can tell, it seems to be just a few. Maybe the hatching just started. I guess I will just give it to the chickens but I just wonder now, whats the difference.

I also want to add here, I am totally laughing at myself. I have come a long way baby. THis is coming from a girl when first married 20 years ago, I wouldnt move to the country and my dh had to live in the city for me. Now, land, animals and trying to figure out how to save grain with bugs in it for human consumption.

big rockpile · #11 08/28/10, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melco

Okay, excuse my ignorance but what is the difference in eating a dead hatched bug as opposed to an egg. I am being totally serious. I figured I have always known there were eggs in the grain so what is the difference if there are hatched eggs. I have never had an issue with eggs hatching either. This is from a bucket that I moved into our storage bldg for a bit of time in the winter and forgot about it. With the temps as high as they have been I figured the eggs hatched. I also want to add it isnt swarming with bugs that I can tell, it seems to be just a few. Maybe the hatching just started. I guess I will just give it to the chickens but I just wonder now, whats the difference.

I also want to add here, I am totally laughing at myself. I have come a long way baby. THis is coming from a girl when first married 20 years ago, I wouldnt move to the country and my dh had to live in the city for me. Now, land, animals and trying to figure out how to save grain with bugs in it for human consumption.

Its all in your Head kind of like Parasites in animals.

big rockpile

Danaus29 · #12 08/28/10, 09:34 PM

Navotifarm, um, well, maybe you shouldn't eat any products from any bakery or cookie, cracker, or other baked goods factory. My grandpa worked at Sunshine Bakery for many years and could never eat a store bought fig cookie because of what went into the fig mix.

My dh worked for the same company BigRockPile did. It's pretty much the same thing nationwide.

The mother of one of the women I used to babysit for once worked in our school cafeteria. The cooks went back to school a week before the kids so they could clean the bugs and mouse poo out of the pantry and storage bins.

motdaugrnds · #13 08/29/10, 12:11 AM

I keep all our grains (for family use) in the refrigerator; some even in the freezer.

**Shrek** · #14 08/29/10, 12:40 AM

weevils are in all grains and the eggs survive milling. If you find some bugs and dont want the free protein, sift the bugs with the appropriate screen and cool dry store it so you wont see the free meat.

BTW if bugs in the grain freaks you out dont look at fresh broccolli and cauliflower under a magnifying glass or microscope even after washing for food prep.

Glad free protein don't bug me

beaglebiz · #15 08/29/10, 08:19 AM

I have in the past sifted and sorted by hand, then freeze the grain (I do it in small batches becasue the sorting and sifting is time consuming, Im very fussy. ) then after some hard work, good as new. No biggie.

luvrulz · #16 08/29/10, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

wrap your bucket up good in a plastic trash bag or two. that should keep moisture out of the bucket. Then when you take it out of the freezer, the condensation and defrosting should take place outside on the plastic. But do you really want to enhance your protein content of your bread by grinding up bugs and bug eggs and larvae in that grain? Wouldn't you really rather upgrade your chickens' protein intake???? Perhaps you should just buy some new grain and freeze it from now on?

I agree with her - get more grain! Feed the protein to the chickens.......it might not even kill the eggs - once it warms up, the eggs will hatch and you'd have the same issue....

Navotifarm · #17 08/29/10, 09:23 AM

Melco asked: "what is the difference in eating a dead hatched bug as opposed to an egg. I am being totally serious."
Now, there's a question that was hanging in the back of my mind this morning when I woke up! For one thing, if we are talking about the tiny grain weevils Shrek is talking about, I don't believe you can see the eggs. But you can see the dead bugs. So perhaps the first answer is visibility. There's the interim stages that bother me - the wriggly hatching larvae. The bug turds. (There's a name for it which I forget - "frass"? They make a lot of frass. Then they pupate and shed so there is bug skin. Then they are alive hard-shelled crawly creaures and die. So there are several differences including invisibility, squishy wiggly, crunchy munchy and assorted by-products.
I agree with the option on here of cleaning (tediously and carefully) by hand. I guess it's better to have live vibrant grain than poisoned sprayed grain that doesn't attract or harbor insects. I haven't heard that the little weevils Shrek talks about are toxic or carry disease.
But some insects DO carry disease. And somebody like me with failing eyesight can't distinguish between rat and mouse turds and little dead black insects. And we all know rodents carry diseas and track in, on their little potty-box feet, bits of carrion and other indelectables.
So if I grew and harvested the grain myself, every grain would be precious. I'd want to protect and save it! But if I bought it from Big Rockpile's bakery and it started writhing and seething and humping, I'd be glad the spray hadn't been too toxic and my chickens would be happy. Or if I didn't have chickens, then I'd put it in my compost.
Another option: I met a nice man last week who raises meal worms for bluebirds. (If he has too many, he makes little packages and freezes them till next season). Maybe you could start a bird worm culture with your weevily grain?

luvrulz · #18 08/29/10, 09:37 AM

LOLOL! It's ok if they're in there and I can't see them and don't know about them. It's the visibility thing...... Once I know they're there - I don't want to eat them.... And how long beofre I use up that flour/grain? How much did it cost? Is it worth it to spend a lot of time tediously cleaning it? No - more effective for me to go buy more and feed the buggy stuff to my critters. I use too much flour to worry about half of a five gallon bucket - or how ever much there was....... JMO, course!

piglady · #19 08/29/10, 12:16 PM

We buy our grain in 50 pound bags and store it for years. As long as I open it and sprinkle it with diatomous earth (fossil flour some call it) it never has bugs. DE is full of minerals and is actually good for you so not like you are adding anything bad. The only thing, I got too much once and it dulled my grain mill. When I don't add DE, the bugs take it over.

coolrunnin · #20 08/29/10, 03:01 PM

All grains have larvae in them from the plants they grew on. If its in a bucket you can use dry ice in the grain put 1/4 lbs. ice in the bottom add grain to 5gal. bucket leave set for half hour. This will displace oxygen and larvae will be dormant for years. End of problem.