Pricing Leasing for Hunters

[Navotifarm]

Here it is, almost fall. Many craigslist ads of people wanting to hunt. I've had two hunters here on my land with my permission for years but never charged them money. The original agreements were for barter including they would post my boundary lines which they never did but they have done so many other good things for me that helped me I can't even think about charging them.
On the other hand, I know many landowners get their taxes paid by hunters and have other benefits.
What suggestions can you make for me with regard to setting a fair price for hunting? On my land. If I set the price at $500 each for six men, I would have the $ to catch up my taxes but that would mean 8 men (and friends) that would be out around my home legally in addition to poachers and trespassers. Hunters I know want to hunt free. I have a guy stumbling around in my woods right now with my plat who says he advertised for six years on craigslist and I'm the only one who ever called him. I told him I need $8,000 thinking that would send him screaming but it didn't. Of course he didn't reach for his wallet, either. I am thinking that if I set a price and tie it to something reasonable, this guy will bite. The last I heard Virginia prices her deer at $500 each so would $500 sound reasonable to you? Do landowners charge per deer or a flat rate and then add on for deer, sort of like the paid fishing ponds do?
Any helpful websites on this? I know we have a local bow hunting shop that is charging $1,500 apiece for elite bowhunters to eradicate deer in a local subdivision. That was in the local paper. But it didn't say who is paying, the hunters or the subdivision.
Thanks for advice, input, prices, etc. Note I'm asking about bow, black powder and. Regular guns for deer but not for birds.

[RWBlue01]

I am a hunter and I have been around leases for a few years, but usually I don't have to pay.
I wouldn't do anything as a land owner or hunter without a written contract at this point. I have learned from mistakes.

Let start out with the question I would have:

How many acres?

Is it exclusive hunting rights or is it open. (i.e. Today you plan on 6 people, tomorrow it is 12 hunter, then you decided to bring in 3 more friends that do not pay.....)

How do you plan on regulating access if it is not exclusive?

What do you have in mind for parking?

If you have animals, how are we dealing with this? Keeping me away from your animals (if needed) and keeping you from moving the animals to an area I have setup to hunt?

Your thoughts on tree stands and blinds? I have hunted where someone put up a few well thought out tree stands. This works. I have hunted where every moron had put up several tree stands. Many of these were unsafe and I wouldn't want to use those trees for lumber with all the nails. Now I have a climbing tree stand, but they will only work on the right size trees without low limbs.

Do you have any kill permits issued for deer or other animals eating your crops? Do I as a hunter get any of those permits to fill?

If I bag something, do you want any of the meat? I kill it, you tag it and butcher for your freezer? What about gut piles?

What are your thoughts on does vs. bucks? I am a meat hunter. I have known places to get way out of whack because the hunters only take the bucks.

I have never hunted property where they charge per animal taken. I think this is bad on so many different levels. You would have to trust people to be honest or play cop all the time. If someone takes a shot and doesn't find the animal (or it wasn't as big as they wanted), then what. It is basically saying your own the game, in some states them paying you a fee for the STATES game would be illegal. Unless I hunt an exotic animal on a large (make that HUGE) ranch, I don't think I will. If you have Bison roaming your property, I might change my mind, but that would be like shooting a cow for the freezer.

I always look for a place that has some accommodations for sleeping local. This keeps me from having a long commute. For me I just sleep in the back of the vehicle and use a small camp stove if I heat my food. I could do this at a rest stop. Other look for a true camping location, where they plan on having a fire, tents....

Last on the list for me would be knowing someone already hunting the property or walking the property before signing anything so I can get a feel for the amount of game expected.


This being said, I have not hunted in a couple years because of life events. The last time I did, I was doing it more like a bounty hunter. The property had many kill tags and I was the killer, tagger, butcherer.

[whistler]

In MN our group pays $6 per acre for year round exclusive recreational rights. This includes hunting, fishing, gathering (berries, some firewood, mushroom, etc.), and 4 wheeling on existing trails.

There are 12 of us on this lease.

[plowjockey]

I read an article where someone had 140 acres of good deer ground, in KY.

They leased it to to 4 hunters max, for $1000/yr ea. or $4000 per year.

[||Downhome||]

http://www.southernvalandsales.com/s...FZQz5wodfDggwA

http://www.hightechredneck.com/frees...tonName=Search

http://www.dof.virginia.gov/wildlife/lease-hunting.htm

might give you an idea, lot of variables.

the biggest is can the property produce or give a chance at trophy bucks, second is how many hunters will be hosted at any one time,as well as total hunters over the course of the season as that will affect the harvest. first guys in will have the best opertunitys where late comers may be at a disadvantage.

if you host too many hunters over the season well the potential to decimate the herd that frequents the property or just plain spook them to high heaven and cause them to change the habits. some guys may just go on a wounding spree and never actually claim a deer. I dont think you can charge per deer as those are the states deer and could be misconstued, if they where your deer and you had fences thats different.

you need a calender and schedual first thing, you need to divy your prospects up.
some guys will want exclusive as well as first shot they should pay the most,some guys will be ok to share for a lower fee, you need IMO a slideing scale if you cant reach a acceptable exclusive lease. some guys only are able to hunt a specfic time slot so they may pay more for it.

I would also have a hunter sign in,so you know who and when they are there as do the hunters. I would also devide the property into areas so they can put where they are on that sheet also.

[Forty Acres]

A lot of NE Oklahoma deer leases seem to be going for about $10 per acre for good huntable parcels with decent deer densities. Smaller tracts a bit more, larger tracts a bit less.

[danielsumner]

OP, I read in a previous post that you have somewhere around 72 acres, give or take. You stated three parcels, 23.88, 15+,and 33+ acres. That is a little more than twice the amount of land that I have. I sure don't want anyone shooting that close to my home. Maybe one person that I trust, but a half dozen or more strangers. I don't think so. Also didn't you have some of the woods cut, how would this effect the hunting.

[agmantoo]

I get $8 per acre from a small hunt club for a timber holding I have in Brunswick county Va. The hunters buy insurance additionally.

[Cabin Fever]

I guess if I was going to lease land to deer hunt, I'd only rent the 1 acre that my deer stand was on.

[Navotifarm]

Very interesting. I could not make this come up on my blackberry but it works just fine on my laptop at a hotspot!
I thank you all for your answers and the considerations you bring up and very astute questions! I can answer some as generally.

First, if I charge by the acreage I legally own it is only 70 acres. However, there is a 100-acre site which was clear cut this spring. The logger told me he was going to cut 800 acres total, so that's a lot of deer wandering around displaced and coming onto my land. There are a good many acres surrounding my land with absentee owners. I already have some deer stands on my land which one of my two hunters set up. He had a nice commercial stand stolen (he and I were standing right by my chicken coop when someone came on a 4-wheeler, there was a shot fired, the atv went away and when Johnny went to check his deer stand, the lock had been shot off and it was gone. Now he builds platforms out of scrap lumber and totes them in and sets them so he won't have a big loss if they are stolen). My two guys are cousins so they work things out themselves. I can't get them to notify me when they are coming but I have got them trained to park in certain places so I know they are their (and the other one knows his cousin is there). Also I am worried my neighbors might put molasses in their gas tanks so I like to keep their vehicles where I can see them. Also, I am concerned that if they come in alone and get hurt, that i can tell they are there from seeing their vehicle and can call for help if they don't show up after awhile. My two already are good shots. Johnny once wounded a deer that ran but he tracked it and found it (dead) later. So you raised very good points. Johnny brings a jerk with him sometimes. he shot a deer, gutted it, and left the innards right where my dogs found them. Ugh a huge rotting liver! Now the guys field dress their deer and take the guts away in trash bags. They don't have insurance (nor do I) which is a big concern. I don't like being insured by the law of averages! There are no trophy bucks that I know of. yy guys obey the hunting laws as to shooting bucks or does except once one shot a buck which had shed his antlers.
One thing, a couple of years ago I rented to two guys from Staunton for $125 each. they immediately bought a 4-wheeler for $4,000 and an expensive deer stand for over $300. Boy did I feel silly! Then they griped about the distance so (now I really was silly) I bought a cute little Scotty trailer for them to camp out in like one of our posters here. But no hunter has ever used it.
I like the idea of year-round recreation mentioned here. One of my hunters comes and goes all year to practice shooting and brings family and friends. He has set up a nice picnic table. There are so many nice places on my land like the lake that are just sitting there unenjoyed. I did invite one guy to come shoot off fireworks and have a barbecue July 4 but folks around here so far only come for a specific purpose and then go away again. None of my hunters has ever just walked around looking for deer scrapes or sign. The one with the deer stands locates them near the creeks.
So I know I need to limit my hunters. I like the idea of setting a schedule so as to be fair. I was working backward from the $3,000 I need asap to figure 6 at $500 but it could be five at $650 And the two freebies, that I like so much who I need to watch out for because they watch out for me.
My two guys don't seem to have any problems with the poachers and trespassers but I wonder about any innocent newbies? my neighbors play rough but they are cowards. And yes, my land was logged but i see deer almost every day because they are eating the new growth right along my access lane. Of course, they know I won't hurt them. My hunters probably won't see them, just driving in.
Thanks for all those websites which I sure will check out. And the reminder about the contract!!!!
Oh, and the guy today wants to bring his ten year old son to teach him how to hunt. On the one hand, I think a kid of today will get bored fast and will be screaming to go home and watch tv about two minutes after he gets to my land but on the other hand, what about this kid and a gun? I've seen gloating photos in the local paper of kids as young as 8 with corpses of critters they killed. they look so cute in their little camouflage outfits. But those kids seem to live on farms not in a subdivision like this craigslist kid. How far do bullets travel? danielsumner points out that my land is pretty limited and someone would be shooting close to my home. Actually, I hear shots year round from my neighbors but daniel is right, I am worried about strangers.
Those are my answers as to what has worked so far but what I'm looking to work now is to find that tax bite a healthy mouthful! Without getting myself or my critter family blown away! Now to see if I can post this!!! Thanks for your comments. Even if I can't read them at home on my blackberry they will be forwarded to my email and I can read them about 1:30 this morning!!!!! oh< how many do you think MIGHT be a safe number? I was thinking six strangers and two Old Reliables (not simultaneously). You think that's too many, huh? ????

[Shadow]

We have 62 acres left we sold 58 recently. At the highest per acre price quoted here that would be 600 dollars per year. That is for all the hunting rights for a year. Not five hunters for $600 each total of $3,000 That aint going to happen. Around here we might get $200 for the hunting rights for a year That person would be the only hunter and anyone he brought with him. As for how far will deer rifles reach. We had a person shot standing on his drive way, the bullet only went in less than a half inch and the law estamated it was probably five miles away or futher. No one heard the sound of a rifle. Now for the really scary part. If you charge your homeowners insrance will probably not cover you for any thing that happens concerning the hunters. Charging makes it a business. You could lose the farm if anyone had an accident and sued you. You will have to check out your insurance really close. As for us we have never charged and still have extra insurance just in case. For the amount of money it is not worth it. You need extra insurance for the free hunting. David

[jbos333]

I am in western New York. The parcel behind mine, 150 acres, was leased out last season for $1500.00 or $10 an acre. I think that is about the going rate around here. A couple of the guys that used to hunt that parcel for free have asked permission to hunt my place. I told them it was OK but with taxes rising each year, I'm considering leasing mine out too.

[highlands]

Be careful. Watch out for regulatory and insurance liability issues.

[agmantoo]

Is there a bear hunting season where you are located? If so, the lease rate for a hunt club leasing the property will be about double of that of deer hunting. Hunt club income goes a long way toward paying my property taxes on timberland I have. Liability insurance for the hunt club and the land owner are paid outside of the lease rate and are paid by the hunt club. The premiums for the coverage are reasonable and most hunt clubs are accustom to having and paying for the coverage. Having a hunt club utilize your property has additional benefits. They pick up litter and help maintain internal roads. They post no trespass signs and enforce them. Violators are less prone to go on leased land as they know they are dealing with a group rather than a single individual. I joke with my wife saying the hunt club members pay for the right to police who comes on the property and the right to be the caretakers in my absence as well as keeping the deer population in check. IMO, there are fewer people hunting legally than there were illegally before I started leasing the hunting rights. PS...I lease hunting rights only....no fishing, camping and definitely No ATVs for recreation, young hunters are required to have a hunt club adult with them, no visitors or guests with a paying club member.

[texican]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I guess if I was going to lease land to deer hunt, I'd only rent the 1 acre that my deer stand was on.

There ya go!
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Good land goes for $6/acre around here.
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A good general rule is: When you hear a shot on your property, you investigate, not when you get time, but Right Now! A sneaky thief/poacher doesn't fire a gun usually but once... knowing unless someone is hunting them, it'll take a second shot to 'course them'.

Hopefully the guy with the lost stand put an identifying plate somewhere hidden on the stand, so he could positively ID it later, if it's recovered.

About the only way you're going to make real money is to have a known monster buck prowling your woods, or, you're raising monster bucks, and are charging by the Boone and Crockett Point. My niece won a lotto for an all expenses trip to a west Texas hunting ranch. She could kill up to a 145 I believe. They saw some 200's, but the guide said that'd be an additional 10K (she had a 4K trip). Problem is, even if you do have photos of a regular monster, the acreage isn't large enough to sustain numbers, and once the monster is gone, you're out of the business. Also hard to navigate the intricacies of a monster buck hunt, on a small acreage... difficult to advertise, as too many buck toothed sister kissers (no offense to any btsk's here) who couldn't shoot a doe without a spotlight, will indeed spotlight him, take him, and that's the end of it.

[johnghagen]

In Illnois You charge by the season.Price one for bow season Price two for gun season Price three late season all weapon.For 120 acres of great deer hunting land proven to have big bucks you can get 500.00 per hunter for season one based on six hunters two deers each.Season two 400.00 per hunter based on five hunters two deer each.Season three 150.00 per hunter based on three hunters one deer each.You have to have insurance above your normal farm insurance it comes to 500.00 per year more or less,millon dollar umbrella coverage.Only the people that pay get to hunt no friends as that would throw off the ratio of deer and where they hunt.Only non invasive tree stands ie.Ladder stands or climbers,no nails in the trees at all.ATV use only to get to and remove deer at end of hunt,no trails.A lawyer needs to draw this up as there is no room for mistakes.Get it in writing and be clear what you want and what you expect.The hunters are not your friends they are customers and need to know the rules and what will happen if not followed.The hunters come thru our lane to park at machine shed so this keeps everyone up front with the amount of deer taken and who is here.

[RWBlue01]

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

None of my hunters has ever just walked around looking for deer scrapes or sign.

Oh, and the guy today wants to bring his ten year old son to teach him how to hunt. On the one hand, I think a kid of today will get bored fast and will be screaming to go home and watch tv about two minutes after he gets to my land but on the other hand, what about this kid and a gun?

That first point bothers me. They don't hunt like I hunt.

The guy with the kid is interesting. I could probably tell in 20 minutes if the kid is going to be a problem or not. It all depends on the parent. Where the kid has grown up has little to do with how responsible they are. If you have a spot to shoot, have them out to shoot. You will know the type of people they are.

If you are making a schedule with multiple people hunting, there will be lots of pressure on the animals. People will have to adjust their schedules and show up just in time to climb a tree stand and sit there. That is going to bring a certain type of hunter. Not my type of hunter. Not the type of hunter I would want hunting around me or my place. It is very close to some of the guided hunts where a non-hunter comes and shoots everything that moves because he only has a few days to make a kill.

I know you are trying to make money/break even on your land, but honestly with that many people on that small of spot, I think you are creating a bad environment. It would be a different matter if one person who brought several of his friends, but 1 person per 10 acres. They will be stepping all over each other the first day of each season.

Now if you wanted to organize a hunt club, by calling up all the absent landlords, splitting the hunt lease money.....you could have something.

[Jolly]

Lots of hunting leases down here. I'll tell you some of the common aspects of leasing dwn here and you can decide what fits your situation.

1. Price. Hunters pay for all hunting rights for 1 year. usually, an individual or a club leases the hunting rights from the owner. The owner can retain hunting privledges for himself, but the price must go down. I've seen loaded guns pointed by arguing men, when it comes to who is allowed to hunt where...just remember, once you lease your land, you no longer can do as you will with it, you have to take the terms of the lease into account.

Because sometimes we're talking about REAL money. I know of one 3000 acre tract that went last year for $35/acre. When people are paying over $100,000 to hunt your property, things get real serious, real fast. Now, that $35/acre was some of the most primo stuff in the delta, featuring both excellent deer and duck hunting...most deer and small game only land around my house goes for somewhere between $5-$10 acre. For deer in this part of the world, figure 1 gun/100 acres, and adjust your contract with the hunting club accordingly.

2. Access. Hunters need access pretty much whenever they want it. That means they have keys to all gates which access their lease. And they most likely will want to ride 4WD vehicles, ATVs or UTVs on the lease. The landowner and the leasee will have to come to an agreement on what type of vehicle can go where.

Don't forget about food plots. Most deer hunters will take an active role is developing foodplots. A good landowner will have an understanding on the size of foodplots allowed, how many, location and hunter access.

Depending on the size and location of the lease, many times hunters will want a place on the lease to camp. The landowner has to decide what types of housing he will allow...some guys allow only travel trailers and tents, some guys will let you bring in portable buildings and some landowners will let a club bring in a house trailer for a hunting lodge. Of course, amenities like running water or electricity are all part of the negotiation process.

3. Safety. A landowner has the right to insist all state game laws are followed and that the leasees have some form of liability insurance. Insurance used to be available through the NRA pretty cheap.

4. Kill books. A good landowner will insist the leasee or club keep an accurate kill book. This works for the good of all...it lets the club have a record of what is killed when and the landowner has an idea of how much game is coming off of his land.



That's just some stuff off the top of my head...there's lots of otehr things to consider (but my two fingers are getting tired ).

[Navotifarm]

Thanks, guys! You sure raised a lot of points and possibilities I had not thought of! I blocked and copied all. I am thinking I will create the Navoti Sanctuary Deer and Bear Hunt Club and .... uh .....
Well, I researched some of those game farm hunts in Texas and was stunned at what some folks pay just to shoot some specially fed animal with prize winning antlers. I don't have any of those! But I'm not an airplane ride away, either. Maybe I need a broker to set this all up?
I am locked away from the forum on my blackberry but I will look again this weekend with my laptop hoping it isn't blocked also to see what new exciting information and advice you have for me. thanks thanks thanks!!