What livestock is "self sufficent"

[Conhntr]

Im still early in my research and wont be buying a property for 2years and wont be able to live on it full time for even longer.

Just trying to see what i need to start looking at

i love hunting and butcher all my meat but i would also like to raise some domesticated animals so i can have meat off-season without resorting to buying it

so assuming proper facility for each animal can a goat, chickens, or rabbits be "self-sufficent" enough they can make it through the week without humAn help? and occasionally 2weeks?

Area will be w.v so i guess owl, hawks, racoons, ferral dogs, snakes (and what else?) would be the predators. I know i would need a spring/well feed watering hole and might need an automatic feeder.

One of my hunting spots has a ferral "domestic" ram on it that escaped years ago and has been completly on his own since. He is VERY mean and ive seen him but 5-10 deer out of a field just so he can eat by himself!

I would guess he is the exception or can sheep survive pretty much on thier own with only occassional assistance?

[plowjockey]

IMO, simply leaving livestock unattended for a week, or more may just be asking for trouble and a money losing venture.

Human presence will deter predators a bit and will help a sick or injured livestock, gets the care it needs, before it's too late. Hungry coyotes will take down a mean ram, in a few minutes.

Even sheep need a shepherd or at least a guard dog.

You may just end up feeding the wildlife, with expensive livestock.

[olivehill]

I agree with plowjockey that logistically and financially it is probably not a good idea and would add that, imo, doing so would be irresponsible and inhumane. Bad things can happen in a matter of minutes and go from bad to worse in hours in the case of sick or injured stock. Leaving them to tend themselves through thick and thin for weeks isn't farming, it's neglect.

[Dexter]

Nothing. I had dreamed of "feral" chickens and free range rabbits.
I tried and lets just say the coyotes, owls, weasels did well. And I lived on the land making sure there was always the necessities. Thing is you have to sleep at some point.

And winters that get cold or summers that get hot? Again, it's simply neglect if you aren't there daily.

[ksfarmer]

I agree with the previous posters. The only livestock that I know you can leave unattended for a week or more are cattle on open range. Even then you better have reliable water and grass. And, hope none get injured or sick.

[mickm]

Dung beetles are fairly self sufficient, but I am not sure what good they are.

Even cattle or sheep on large amounts of ground require some attention. LArge ranchers leave cattle on huge areas of ground with very little attention, but they have a certain percentage of "loses" that is acceptable.Most small homesteaders can not easily swallow the cost of loosing even one animal.

So none would be my answer.

[Conhntr]

Olivehill some would say selctive breedinh an animal to the point where it needs a human babysitter's daily intervention to survive is "inhumane".


like i said im in the very early planning stages and am just exploring possibilities. If there is no livestock that can be maintained with 3-4 weekends a month i guess i wont be able to have any.

What about some sort of hog? They are pretty tough we had them on the farm when i was a littl1.

[dirty]

your best bet might be to research. then plant and build areas that will encourage native wildlife to live or visit the area. so as to increase hunting opportunities.

[Patt]

Originally Posted by mickm

Dung beetles are fairly self sufficient, but I am not sure what good they are.

Even cattle or sheep on large amounts of ground require some attention. LArge ranchers leave cattle on huge areas of ground with very little attention, but they have a certain percentage of "loses" that is acceptable.Most small homesteaders can not easily swallow the cost of loosing even one animal.

So none would be my answer.

Protein source?

I have to agree with none. A week is just too long. Pigs are pretty hardy but left alone for a week they would escape and be long gone. There are just a lot of things that can go wrong with animals, just read the losses on homesteads where people are there every day.

[olivehill]

Originally Posted by Conhntr

Olivehill some would say selctive breedinh an animal to the point where it needs a human babysitter's daily intervention to survive is "inhumane".

If one did they would be sorely uneducated on the full scope of the reasons domestic livestock require the care they do as, with the exception of a handful of breeds mostly found on factory farms, genetics are a very small portion of the equation.

[gone-a-milkin]

Dung beetles are of great value to anyone trying to improve their pastures w/o tilling.

As to letting domestic animals fend for themselves, you can expect some losses.

I like dirty's idea of planting for the native critters.

[||Downhome||]

fish is the only thing I can think of.

you can make it where theres not a lot of work during the week taking care of the critters,auto waters and bulk feeding, though I agree with every one else a daily visit is required or at least every other day.

chickens are probably the best bet for the least work. game types may be able to become self sustaining and as a domestic you could most likely harvest with a 22 anytime you feel the need.

[mickm]

Originally Posted by Conhntr

Olivehill some would say selctive breedinh an animal to the point where it needs a human babysitter's daily intervention to survive is "inhumane".


like i said im in the very early planning stages and am just exploring possibilities. If there is no livestock that can be maintained with 3-4 weekends a month i guess i wont be able to have any.

What about some sort of hog? They are pretty tough we had them on the farm when i was a littl1.

Yeah, but dude they have been bred for 100's of years to be "livestock".

I'm not quite understanding why you would want to own livestock that you never see?

[Conhntr]

Originally Posted by olivehill

If one did they would be sorely uneducated on the full scope of the reasons domestic livestock require the care they do as, with the exception of a handful of breeds mostly found on factory farms, genetics are a very small portion of the equation.

color me uneducated (i am afterall)
lets use wild vs domestic turkey -- a species native to this area and one i could try to raise

What is the "full scope of reasons" the domesticated turkey would require daily care and the wild can live on its own as it has for 1000s of years.

I cant guess anything other than genetics! Selective breeding animals to the poit they are helpless then slaughtering and eating them is not "humane". So i personally would not bring that into homesteading discussions

i was raised to never be CRUEL to animals ill leave the inhumane nonsense to petA

[FarmboyBill]

If you have a big enough pasture, say at least 3 to 5 acres of hardwoods, PLENTY of acorns, then hogs could live. NOT PIGS, Full grown hogs. Ive accidently did it here. Ive got a hog pasture that is 300 X 100 with a small pond in it that can get up to 4ft deep. Well, I went up to feed them, and they didnt show. I walked around the fence and didnt find them, but saw a place or 2 where they could have gotten out, and so I thought they did. I didnt go up anymore. That fall say at least 4 months, I decided to get some more, and so I went up and took a good look at the fence, plugging up any spots where they might get out. Low and behold, there they were. Looking a bit bigger than I had last seen them. I had 3 hogs then on that area. If you had 3 or more on double that area of hardwoods, youd be alright for that long or longer, jus sos they could have a waller, and water to drink, theyed get along alright.

When I lived in the fabled Ozarks around W Plaines, and im supprised that many Ozarkers havent clammered in on this, MANY farmers let there hogs run loose in the woods. I well remember we were all at church one sunday when a big wig hadnt yet showed. His wife said he had went to look in on the hogs. Well, after quite awhile, a friend of his went to see what was up. After a while longer they both showed up. He had barely got into the lot when his hogs attacked him. He jumped up on a stump, and was (treed) until his friend came. His friend went to a corner, got inside the lot, and the hogs went for him, He crossed the short distance, and got over on the other side, while he jumped off the stump and made his way back over the fence. Those hogs hadnt seen man often enough to remember what or who he was. They were vicious.

[featherboa]

dog meat?

[PhilJohnson]

Pheasants come to mind. Plenty of people buy them around here and turn them loose on their property. I've had a couple of "jail breakers" from a local game farm hanging around my place. One got hit by a car but the other pheasant is still around. He made it all winter without me doing a thing. There were tags on both of them so I know they didn't start out feral. I am not sure why he ran off but he has stuck around my property since this winter. I've been thinking about getting some more since I don't have to do anything to take care of them.

[Conhntr]

Originally Posted by mickm

Yeah, but dude they have been bred for 100's of years to be "livestock".

I'm not quite understanding why you would want to own livestock that you never see?

So i can have yearround meat. I dont want them as pets i would like to have them for food

as far as "game species". There is plenty of wild game in the area and i hunt all season. However it wont do me anygood all summer (no poaching)

[gone-a-milkin]

Originally Posted by Conhntr

color me uneducated (i am afterall)
lets use wild vs domestic turkey -- a species native to this area and one i could try to raise

What is the "full scope of reasons" the domesticated turkey would require daily care and the wild can live on its own as it has for 1000s of years.

I cant guess anything other than genetics!

Okay, in the wild a mama turkey raises her babies to understand the enviroment. She teaches them the best places to go for foodand shelter, etc.
However, she still loses plenty to predators, weather, and other things. (traffic and haying equiptment are examples).

Then you have "heritage breed" turkeys. They can breed naturally and they have foraging skills. They were not born right on the land you propose to place them on. Chances are their parents did not teach them to forage and avoid predators. They were likely hatched in an incubator and fed crumbled feed. They are not necessarily going to recognise danger.

The fastest growing and most readily available turkeys to buy are "broad breasted" turkeys. They have been bred to grow quickly and make a large carcass. These birds cannot even mate naturally. They are artificially inseminated to get fertile eggs. Then hatched in incubators. They get too big to fly. They roost on the ground. They would be easy pickins for any predator.

So, yes genetics are a factor. Environment is also a huge factor. Plus, if you arent defining a home for these birds, what will keep them from integrating into the wild population? Why not just plant the feeds and create a habitat for the wild population of turkeys that are already there?

[olivehill]

Originally Posted by Conhntr

color me uneducated (i am afterall)
lets use wild vs domestic turkey -- a species native to this area and one i could try to raise

What is the "full scope of reasons" the domesticated turkey would require daily care and the wild can live on its own as it has for 1000s of years.

I cant guess anything other than genetics! Selective breeding animals to the poit they are helpless then slaughtering and eating them is not "humane". So i personally would not bring that into homesteading discussions

i was raised to never be CRUEL to animals ill leave the inhumane nonsense to petA

Heritage bred domestic turkeys are actually very similar, genetically speaking, to wild turkeys. I think you're mainly misunderstanding what daily or every other day tasks are important to livestock rearing. Just because you need to -- or should -- be there to be the steward of your flock or herd does not mean the animals within it are "helpless". Given the appropriate environment and opportunities to take advantage of that environment domestic turkeys can and will live with zero human "intervention". At that point however, they are feral animals not livestock.

Feral and wild animals have many more survival options than do penned and/or pastured animals. They are accustomed to caring for themselves and only themselves and perhaps most important of all a human has not accepted the animal's well-being as their personal responsibility or altered their natural environment.

When a human steps in and interfere's with an animal's natural environment, tampers with their food and water source, fences them in and accepts responsibility for their well-being monitoring them daily (or near daily) to ensure the systems that human put in place by that human becomes necessary, not because the animal is of one breed or another, but because they have now been limited in their survival options.

If you put in place large enough and efficient enough systems for feeding and watering, for instance, you won't have to "intervene" daily, but it is still your responsibility to ensure the animal's well-being and that includes monitoring for injuries and illnesses and providing basic protection from predation.

Originally Posted by Conhntr

So i can have yearround meat. I dont want them as pets i would like to have them for food

as far as "game species". There is plenty of wild game in the area and i hunt all season. However it wont do me anygood all summer (no poaching)

We eat wild game year-round. Buy a freezer and stock up in-season.