Cycle Stop Valve/Pressure Tank ?'s

[buckeyefarms]

I am in the process of tearing out all of the old plumbing disasters here at my old homestead. I have replaced all of the plumbing leading to the fixtures and now it is time to tackle the rest. I am going to replace my pressure tank during this process. So here are my questions.

My current pressure tank is a Well-x-trol rated at 5.9 gals of drawdown on my 40-60 pressure switch. I haven't had any issues with this one since we have been here (2 yrs), but it showing some age and is a bit rusty. I would rather just start with all new.

Any suggestions on what brand/mfg of pressure tank? It seems that Well-x-trol, Wellmate, and Flextron (sp?) are the big ones.

Second, I originally was going to go with a larger tank/drawdown to help save on pump cycles. Then I came across these cycle stop valves. After a bit of reading they seem to be beneficial. They basically work like this. A fixture is turned on, draws all of the water out of the pressure tank, the pump kicks on: but instead of filling the tank the valve continues to provide a steady pressure to that fixture, when the fixture is shut off then the pressure tank is filled at roughly 1gpm. These are the basics, you can read more about them here: cyclestopvalves.com

The premise is that these valves allow you to use a smaller pressure tank because after initial drawdown the valve continues flow/pressure until it isn't needed. For me, our tank/pump will draw down and cycle say 6 times during a shower. With this valve, the tank will draw down but the pump will continue to run until the shower is over and the tank is refilled, so 1 cycle. Also, with a 5.9 gal draw down, the pump would run 5-6 minutes to fill the tank which should be more than adequate for proper cool down.

Anyways, has anyone used one of these or heard any opinions about them? The valve is only $80 and for me to get a larger tank, I am looking at a bigger price jump than that. Also, I would like to reduce my pump cycles to hopefully lengthen the life of it.

I do not know how big/hp/gpm rating of my pump. This info was never given to me when we bought the place.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

[Darren]

Unless you've got a lot of money, I'd keep the existing pressure tank. Ours is over 14 years old and still working. It's a bit rusty too. Anything you can do to reduce pump cycles should pay off in the long run. I'm guessing both the submersible pump and pressure tank here are both getting close to 20 years old. The pressure tank isn't large. We recently finished the connection to public water which means the well is used only for outside hydrants for the animals so that should extend the life.

In this case you might want to consider the "If it's not broke, don't fix it" mantra. I am an advocate of using the best stuff in renovations especially for older folks that may not want to deal with something in their later years.

In other words, if a 50 year roof will outlast you while a 20 year won't, why not consider how much of a hassle replacing something will be when you're up in years?

Knowing something is going to be trouble free long into the future is worth something for the peace of mind,

[Harry Chickpea]

I can't see any real value in the cycle stop valve. Submersible pumps are kept cool by the water around them, jet pumps use standard air cooled motors. The powering off of a motor isn't a problem. Powering on can create stresses, but where that is a real problem a soft start is an electrical fix that would make more sense than this throttling of flow which causes the pump to run longer, using more power and putting more stress on the bearings. A larger tank is a better use of the money.

[byexample]

Hadn't heard of a cycle stop valve before... thanks for the info.

[agmantoo]

Buy a Flexcon bladder tank of the Well-Rite series with a large capacity drawdown. Flexcon manufactures under a large number of names. Do NOT buy their composite tank as they are prone to problems IMO. As stated, you do not need the cycle stop valve but you do need a large high quality bladder tank. Your current tank is too small and creates frequent stop/starts.

[uncle Will in In.]

If your present tank has a draw down rating of over 5 gallon and the pump cycles 6 times during a shower you must take a long shower, or the bladder tank is partly water logged. Run out a 5 gallon bucket of water and see if the pump cycles more than once. If it does your tank may need a puff of air to increase the air volume. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[rambler]

I'd hate to see you replace a perfectly good system - you might end up replacing a good long-lasting quality tank with something much poorer.

Your tank sounds painfully small if you are replacing it anyhow.

My well was dug in 1972 - or 1971? I forget, but one of those. I just installed the 2nd 80 gallon galvanised pressure tank less than 2 years ago. I'd expect this tank to last my lifetime and then some. (Hummm - kinda sad to reflect on that, I must be getting old...)

If it were me, I'd leave it alone.

If you want to replace, I'd get a bigger tank.

I'd not fool around with the extra valving, I'd put that money into a bigger tank. While the valves likely do help; it's another thing to malfuntion, it's more cost, and seems you are recucrculating water or slowing down the pumping of water thus losing potential performance. I do understand they reduce start/stop which is good, but I think long term they do not have an endless life themselves; and do require longer pump runs for the same amount of water. All of which can be dealt with by a bigger tank to start with.

Just my opinion, not saying your way is wrong at all, just how I would approach it.

--->Paul

[buckeyefarms]

Great advice/info from everyone, thanks. I just wanted to see if anyone was familiar with cycle stop valves and what their opinions were of them.

Backstory: Our house is over 100yrs old and the previous owner of 19 years simply patched everything and, in my opinion, didn't ever do anything correctly. When I replaced all of the distribution lines I took out a combination of galvanized, copper, cpvc, repair patches, etc... It was a mess. I have a leak in an underground line to one of my outside hydrants and in my search for a shutoff valve, I decided to rip the rest out and start over. Again, more galvanized, copper, patches, etc... I have 2 mystery pipes that go through my basement walls (old galvanized) that I eventually found were plugged/capped off but were still hooked to the water supply. I eventually found that they used a tee off of the supply line from the well to the hydrants. Fortunately, my well is drilled in an old well (cistern maybe at one point, brick lined w/cement ceiling) so I was able to pull the lid and shut off the hydrants.

In doing this I noticed most of the fittings/nipples/tee have some age on them and have slow leaks/drips. I am going to replace all of these and then run a new pipe from the house to the hydrant supply line so I can have a shut off in the house. By doing this I need to remove the old piping and the fittings on the pressure tank need to be replaced also. So, I figured I might as well replace the pressure tank while I am at it. I would rather start over new/fresh with everything than replace all of the lines/fittings and then in a year or 2 have to replace the tank and possibly change some fittings.

I certainly don't have a money tree out back, but I would rather get rid of all this old crap and start fresh knowing that it was done correctly.

Also, when I referenced the shower causing the pump to cycle 6 times, this was only an example. I certainly don't take that long in the shower

I probably will just go with my original thought of a bigger tank. It looks like I should be able to double my current drawdown for not a lot of money, around 10 gals or so. I noticed that prices really start to jump from there.

Anyways, thanks for all the tips.

[Darren]

I've found the same thing here. We've had a multitude of problems including the dissimilar metal connections that were buried. I've been using 200 psi polyethylene with brass compression fittings for everything I've installed, even the above grade stuff in the cellar.