Ideas for clearing wooded land???

[advancecourage]

My husband and I are thinking of buying a 25 acre lot that is 23acres of woods. We will need to clear about 8 acres, so we can have 10 tillable acres for pasture and gardens. The wooded land is mostly mature maples. Do you think we could sell trees for lumber and make enough profit to pay for someone to come in and clear the 8 acres?

Any other suggestions for clearing land cheaply? Doing it ourselves is not an option with my husband's work schedule.

Thanks!

[JIL]

use goats and pigs for the small stuff they work very quickly. then find someone who sells fire wood make a deal to where they take all of the tree branches and all. the pigs do a really good job of rooting. it can be done make take a year or so but it can be done cost effective.

[ChristieAcres]

DH logged the trees, skidded them with his old truck (outfitted with a log boom/industrial wench), and then we hired a reputable recommended log truck driver. The mills here pay the driver a fee and mail the payment to the property owner. We made $12,000 off less than 1/2 acre (40- Cedars, Alders, Hemlock & Fir) this way. We are in the Pacific Northwest. You didn't post where you are and that would sure help. HTer's close to you are the best to give your their opinions.

On your situation, you may consider finding a Logger who offers a good split (check him out very well & insist on a written contract). Where I live, they will split the profits or purchase your logs outright. Here, no one will buy branches, will they there? IF so, great! We cut most of our branches up for firewood for ourselves. As for goats/pigs, good idea, but then you will need very good fencing... There are also local Loggers here who will clear land (even removing the roots) for the value of the trees they log off of it. Some won't. A lot depends on where you live.

[hippygirl]

I'll be following this thread closely as we're looking for options ourselves.

[Darren]

I'd get someone who really knows herbs and native plants. You may find you can make more money harvesting and selling botanicals especially if the land was never grazed. If it was grazed most of the top soil was probably lost.

We have one somewhat level area in the woods that was never grazed by previous owners because of the drop off and the rocks. It is amazing what grows there. We actually have ramps come up each year when they're pretty much extinct anywhere else in the county. We also have a huge amount of cohosh growing there.

See if you have an herb association in your area and get someone out to see if you have an ecosystem that already favors botanicals. Once the trees are gone, there's no chance of that.

Most folks immediately think of clearing the land. Sometimes they wipe out something that could have made them money.

[indianheadranch]

D6 cat works wonders

[ronbre]

we had to clear a small woodsy area for our son's house to go in next to us, we did it all by hand and it was really difficult. We cut the trees, cut them up into firewood pieces and ran the tops through a chipper. when the dozers came in to put in the foundation and drainfield they pushed all the stumps into a pile..and later when we got a tractor we worked on that pile to clear it out..

sure would be a LOT easier to have a logging co do it all..

[Navotifarm]

OP just asked a question that has been burning away at me! Sure wish OP's location was stated especially if it were near mine! I had a logger come in but he swindled me with a very weak contract, harvested a lot of trees he was supposed to leave and left the ones he was supposed to clear cut, selling my trees to saw mills who issued their checks to HIM. He had called the job into the Forestry Department so I thought I would have protection of state officials but I was badly mistaken. In Virginia loggers do not have to be licensed, certified or whatever. The forestry department doesn't seem to have any kind of powers except maybe regarding water which other agencies also have and nobody seems to enforce.
In other word, heed carefully advice you get here so you don't get hornswoggled again. And contact your forestry and ag agents for advice but remember, they are bureaucrays and not living the life themselves so their advice may be worse than useless. For instance, I have a forestry stewardship program I enrolled in. After my trees were cut, rather than advising me on planting for wildlife or what trees to plant, my plan was "updated" to advise me to "clear for pasture" (which involves heavy machinery at least $1,000 an acre), push all the brush and laps in a pile and burn them, (I have serious asthma, no water available to quell fire if it escapes), reseed (they didn't say with what or how), fence and get cattle and contact the local ag guy. They concluded "It takes money to make money." Hardeharhar. The original point of cutting the trees was to GET money, which I didn't do.
Joel Salatin is doing interesting things, using pigs to clear land. Goats eat brush and in some areas are good money makers due to "ethnic" buyers. Farm Show. Has had some interesting (but much too short) articles about goat sales being made where these "ethnic" people come and slaughter the goats right on the premises but they skirt all the interesting parts about fda or other laws. There is also the possibility the maples could be used for syrup by OP. Could the logger trash be used for kugel gardening ? (Help, where is Paul Wheaton on this possibility?)
Anyway, in five million words and more, I sure would like to know the answers to OP's questions myself!!!!! Agro-forestry, for example, is anyone on here doing it? If so, how?????

[Micheal]

If there is grass/weeds/greenery/etc growing under those "mature" maples within the area you want for a pasture why go through the effort/cost of cutting the trees down - after all animals like shade also.
Just do NOT use any of the trees as living fence posts........
I do go along with the others though - check with some local loggers and see if you could strike some sort of deal for removal of not only the trees but also the stumps.

Sorry, but I have to wonder if the work sched doesn't allow any time/effort to clear the land what makes you think there is time for using the same cleared plot for - whatever? Maybe proceeding slowly with your plans would be a better option?

[motdaugrnds]

Navotifarm, we live in Virginia too and almost got taken the way you were. When we purchased these 6 acres, it was all wooded with 3 high, flat spots and the rest sloped 5% toward an ever flowing creek (fed by numerous springs). We wanted to live on that land and that influenced how we cleared it. We, also, wanted a drive-thru which needed to be on high points to avoid problems in the future.

We saw "loggers" working on a nearby tract and spoke with them about clearing our acreage too. They identified themselves as "christians" and said they would clear the entire 6 acres for only $3,000. I got a funny knot in my stomach; so declined. Shortly afterward, I found a lumber "mill" that purchased our mature trees (all except ones we wanted to keep), giving us enough money to hire a large dozer to push over, dig holes & bury what we did not want. (Considered another to purchase smaller trees for firewood; but all he wanted were our cedars and we wanted to keep those; so did not make that deal. Also at the time, we were strapped for both time and money, which influenced what we did with branches and pulp wood.)

After the "mill" took the larger trees, we had an agricultural agent walk over the acreage with us, identifying what we had growing. This gave us more options as to how and what to clear. (You might find an ecosystem that would be sustainable and advantageous to you on those 25 acres, which could help you decide which 8 acres you want to clear for pasture/garden.)

[carasel]

call your state forestry dept. in tn. they come out talley and mark mature trees for you. give you a list of reputable loggers. ideas about about writing the contract.
as a generality your trees are mature and ready for lumber harvest if they are 15" dia. at 60" from the ground.
make sure you get a written contract. before any chain saw gets started up.

[jwal10]

How densly forested is it? I am with others here. Move to the property and find out what is best. Don't just knock it all down and then not have what you liked about the propery to start with. Remove what you need-to build what you want, where you want. Then what is best for the use you want. A garden? Remove the trees you have to, no more. Barn and livestock? Build in the best spot. 25 acres isn't that big, pick the best spot for the type of livestock you want, sometimes barns are better further away from the house. Water and power are easy to locate where you need them. Are you sure you need 8 acres cleared all in one spot. Let the livestock clear some for you. Keep the nice trees for shade, more meadow like, than wide open. Even hay fields with trees are nice. My advice is take your time and get a feel for the land. You can do more but once gone it is gone forever. A backhoe on a tractor can bring down some big trees. Or use the excavator when you open up your building spots. Maples can be huge with a huge root wad, or small and easy to tip over. A nice tree is worth a lot more than what you will get out of it for timber and what it costs to remove the stump. Run some goats for a while to open it up, clear some of the underbrush. It is peacful just to go out in the woods and take it all in. Is there any creeks or streams, springs? Consider how clear cutting will affect the water sources. Clear cuts let the sun in and evaporate a lot of moisture from unprotected dirt. Sounds like you don't have the time right now anyway to do it all, figure out your priorities and work on the important things now. We all think we can do something and then get overwhelmed to start with and the dream becomes a nightmare. Figure out why you want to do this and ENJOY the journey....James

[Harry Chickpea]

I don't see a location in the OPs info. (Note to all new folks - PLEASE PLEASE put that in, even if it is a generality. Mind reading is too difficult.) If those are mature maples in the northeast, it sounds like they could be an active sugarbush. About the last thing a farmer would do in Vermont before going bankrupt is sell off his sugarbush. They are a source of income in the spring when money is usually tight.

[Patt]

Originally Posted by JIL

use goats and pigs for the small stuff they work very quickly. then find someone who sells fire wood make a deal to where they take all of the tree branches and all. the pigs do a really good job of rooting. it can be done make take a year or so but it can be done cost effective.

That is your cheapest option I agree.

[Wis Bang 2]

I always see recommendations to get a forester. They know the trees and the market.

They work for you for a cut of the money so the more they get you, the more they make.

People on the HuntingPA.com board respond that the forester got better prices than what they were getting from the loggers, oversaw that the contract was followed to the letter, landing areas seeded w/ grass to prevent erosion, etc. and every time a thread was saying this a few responders would chime in how they didn't use one and got the shaft from the logger...

Our motorcycle club has a wooded hillside property for a 2X a year race [hillclimb] and they had the property 'selectively' logged at the direction of a forester. They raised a substantial amount of money. The township was going to prohibit the logging until the forester went to the council meeting and demonstrated what he wanted to do and now it would actually improve the health of the remaining forest. The township then approved the job. He earned every penny he made...

[Darren]

Wis Bang, there's a local forester that does that. He offers tours of his place. He harvests with an eye to increasing the growth of other nearby trees. Unless you really look, it's hard to tell he's cut a lot of trees. He's very selective about what he cuts. He's also one of the big promoters locally of planting ginseng for beau coup money later if you've got the soil and shade to grow the plant.

He's a big advocate of managing a forest to maximize income.

BTW, "when you are ready to sell your (ginseng) roots, but over the last 3 or 4 years, it has been going anywhere from around $250 to $500 per pound." At one point it was $1,000 per pound.

http://www.wildgrown.com/

[rambler]

Your location, and the speed you want this to happen, would really help get you answers, instead of off-track speculation.

Fencing & critters will clear up land over time, and cheaply. But it takes years for the stumps to rot away.

If you have a couple years, you can take several modest plans & have a modest cost.

If you want to start building on level ground and plant a crop next spring, then it's going to cost.

There are many different species of maple, and different size trees. No one knows what you got?


--->Paul

[Hoop]

Indeed there is money to be made if the property is logged and you know what you're doing.
Of course, there also is the chance you go about things wrong, the logger steals nearly all your wood, and you are left with property that looks like a war zone.

People get cheated by loggers for one reason. They don't invest any effort into checking the background & honesty of the logger.
Absolutely do not allow any logger to step foot on your property with any logging equipment until you have a signed contract. Any reputable logger wants one as well.


Check the last 3 parcels of land where the logger worked. Visit in person. Talk directly to the landowner in person. Ask if they received fair & prompt payment. If they left the roads in the same condition as when they started. Follow through.

Educate yourself on loggers in the area. There are indeed more honest than dishonest loggers. Just because you hear a logger is a christian person is a meaningless thing. Check out there past logging jobs.

Remember. If you get cheated by a dishonest logger, you have only yourself to blame.

[advancecourage]

We live in NE Ohio Amish country. Most of the trees on the property are sugar maples that have been tapped. We do maples syrup and have an evaporator,etc, But I still would not want 23 acres of woods and only 2 pasture.

My goal is to be able to raise my own hay and perhaps some of my own feed for my animals. I am big into soil remineralization and the essential nature of trace minerals for animal and human health, so I am constantly frustrated in my efforts to find hay from sources that practice good farming. In fact, I have not found any sources.

I have 11 goats right now and will soon be picking up my new guinea hogs, so if we ended up with the property, we could use them for clearing as suggested.

I am so glad I posted here. I can see that this is something that needs to be carefully researched and thought out. Keep the great advice coming!

[highlands]

Originally Posted by advancecourage

My husband and I are thinking of buying a 25 acre lot that is 23acres of woods. We will need to clear about 8 acres, so we can have 10 tillable acres for pasture and gardens. The wooded land is mostly mature maples. Do you think we could sell trees for lumber and make enough profit to pay for someone to come in and clear the 8 acres?

We did this a bit over a decade ago and now have lush fields. This past fall we did another 40 acres or so. The good wood sells for very nice prices. The moderate stuff as firewood. The rest sold as pulp for making wood pellets. This left the fields clear with the stumps still in place and low cut. We got a nice set of checks from the lumber mills.

We fenced the perimeter of the new cut plus a little bit of forest around the edges and we fenced where we had left line trees. We now have large paddocks and are grazing livestock on it already. We seeded some of it last fall and the rest this spring.

It is coming along beautifully. In five years it will be lush pasture. In ten years most of the stumps will have rotted away into the soil leaving their nutrients. This is much better than bulldozing out the stumps which strips the land.

Almost all of our land used to be clear during the 1700's and 1800's. It grew backup in the late 1900's. It cycles.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa