The hazards of plastic

[Heritagefarm]

Excerpt from GC:
"Some very good things have been made with plastics. Computers, IV tubes, dentures, and hospitals have lots of plastic used beneficially, etc. However, the vast majority of plastic things are unnecessary:

Plastic mixing bowls: Glass looks better, works better, lasts longer, and can be recycled less expensively.

Spatulas: Plastic migrates toxic particles when heated. The last thing you want is to cook with plastic.

Cutting boards: You're cutting something on it, right? You're also cutting the board - plastic is toxic. You can eat wood in small amounts - go for a bamboo cutting board - bamboo is prolific.

Clothes hangers: Wire works better, lasts longer, too!

Yes, plastic is OK, even beneficial, in small amounts. It is NOT OK for eveyday use. Check out the links, they will surprise you.

(Oh, did I mention your PVC pipes are one of THE most toxic plastics?)

~~~~~~~~~~

Plastic is one of the most hazardous, commonly used material around. It costs more to produce them, they are made with oil, which is a non-renewable resource, it cannot truly be recycled. In order to recycle it, at least 50% new material must be added. It does not last very long, thus it ends up in land fills and does not decompose. For all means of saying "it's takes 1,000,000 yrs to decompose, thus it can still decompose" for all practical matters, you can say it does not decompose. It's production is very polluting, and it is commonly used in mircowave ovens: When heated, plastic particles migrate. The weaker the plastic, the more it migrates. Plastic migration has been linked with: ADHA, hormone problems, obesity, mood problems, and neurological problems. Not only does it cause problems to people, are you aware that there is a huge expanse of plastic 'soup' in the Pacific ocean region: Rank at being around twice the size of Texas, to as big or bigger than the US. That is not a small problem. Plastic has also been linked with homosexuality in fish.

~~~~~~~~~
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/plastic.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Berkeley/Be...Task-Force.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Problem-Plastic.htm
~~~~~~~~~ "

[arabian knight]

Arrrgggg poo poo and that whole deal that plastic is bad PVC has been ins use for many years now. That all belongs on the stable floor with the tin foil folks ....

[ronbre]

well i agree with MOST of what you said in your post..i despise the overuse of plastics..but there are some metal things that I can't use, cause I'm allergic to nickel..so some plastic substitutes are a great boon to me in that area..like the pvc water pipes as the nickel leached into pipes from the metal would poison my allergic system, and i don't do wire clothes hangers..however my husband prefers them, he touches them i don't.

and obviously the computer you are typing on is plastic.

some of my gripes with overuse of plastic is plastic food containiers and packaging..i much prefer glass and would prefer my meat to be wrapped from the butcher in paper than have something sealed in plastic.

and my biggest plastic gripe is beverage bottles..for one, the beverages don't need to be sold in the first place..most of them are poison..like pop, sweet tea, and who needs to buy water in plastic..it is just out of the local tap anyway..in most places.

[Heritagefarm]

Well stated, ronbre!

[Patt]

I really wish we could get more in glass as far as food goes too, it just tastes better. I'd like to be able to get more in bulk so I don't have to get as much packaging.

Hate to look into the PVC.....

[Heritagefarm]

We always use glass for our milk. If plastic is used for milk, it starts it cling to the plastic and it smells and looks bad.

[Windy in Kansas]

I have a love/dislike relationship for plastic.

I love the old Bakelite products that are extremely durable and they have been around for 100 years. Modern plastics that degrade quickly--I generally don't care for.

While plastic in car dashes saves many lives and injuries it also makes for disposable autos. Decades old cars containing many wooden parts were a pain to restore and weathered badly. Steel cars decades old pulled from a salvage yard are still good to go with only minor work if not rusted away from road sale. The future car buffs will not have an easy go of refurbishing a plastic laden car of today.

Plastics are used in great quantities in life saving medical instances. How long does it take to autoclave an IV bottle before refilling instead of using a disposable vinyl bag? Any safety differences?

Eyeglasses--I never ever want a pair of plastic lenses again even if I have to wear ½ pound glasses with glass lens.

Good thread and I agree somewhat.

[arabian knight]

Mixing Plastic and Food: An Urban Legend?
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/fe...d-urban-legend
--Email claims that freezing water or microwaving food in plastic containers or plastic wrap can lead to the consumption of cancer causing chemicals
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/plastic-c...link-hoax.html Plastic bags contain titanium dioxide and lead based components which are toxic and dyes used in coloured bags cause severe health hazards
What really is true: Titanium dioxide is a harmless inorganic compound used as a whitening/colouring agent in many products of daily use-cosmetics, medical tablets, paints and printing inks besides plastics.
http://www.ipfonline.com/IPFCONTENT/...stic-bags.html
And many more others that debunk each and everyone the naysayers can come up with.

[Patt]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Mixing Plastic and Food: An Urban Legend?
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/fe...d-urban-legend
--Email claims that freezing water or microwaving food in plastic containers or plastic wrap can lead to the consumption of cancer causing chemicals

I only read the first link and I quote:

"You can feel perfectly confident using any plastic that is marked microwaveable in the microwave, and you and your family can use it with health and happiness," says Rob Krebs, director of communications at the American Plastics Council. "The vast majority of plastics used in food wraps and packaging containers do not contain the chemical constitutes that can form dioxins, which are a family of compounds produced by combustion at temperatures greater than 700 degrees Fahrenheit."

[chickenslayer]

Originally Posted by Patt

I only read the first link and I quote:

"You can feel perfectly confident using any plastic that is marked microwaveable in the microwave, and you and your family can use it with health and happiness," says Rob Krebs, director of communications at the American Plastics Council. "The vast majority of plastics used in food wraps and packaging containers do not contain the chemical constitutes that can form dioxins, which are a family of compounds produced by combustion at temperatures greater than 700 degrees Fahrenheit."

Yeah and I've got some beautiful oceanfront property for sale in WV.

[wyld thang]

"homosexuality" in fish is SO not the right word--it has to do with not developing the male sex equipment, screwing up male hormones--big difference.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

The future car buffs will not have an easy go of refurbishing a plastic laden car of today.

I am no fan of plastic, but http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...s/news/4224759

Perhaps you can custom make any plastic parts you need at home.

What will be difficult is to get some electronic gizmo used couple model years and then dropped in favor of something newer. Even 20 years later, you cant find one for love nor money, so 50 to 100 years later you would be totally flummoxed. Unless we have some gadget that can recreate electronics like the above "printer" can recreate plastic 3d objects.

[HermitJohn]

Plastics have their place like in some specialty medical applications. Great, save the petroleum to make those truly beneficial things out of plastic. But I dont want to live in a plastic cocoon just so some manufacturer can make the 2cents more profit. In real world, plastics are mostly used to cheapen products and lighten them so transportation is cheaper. Very little plastic used is needed because of some inherent superior quality. Most of the time cast metal or stamped sheet metal parts would be much more durable and not much heavier nor more expensive. But they require more expensive presses and tooling to make them.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by ronbre

and obviously the computer you are typing on is plastic.

Actually I've got an old IBM computer keyboard around here someplace made entirely of cast pot metal, yep, even the keys. More a curiosty than anything. The plug on it is big one like early pcs used. I tried it on a pc once that it plugged into, but it didnt work. No idea if its no good or if its wired bit differently somehow.

[Alice In TX/MO]

As the grandparent of two small children with severe health issues that just came out of the blue, I wonder if we aren't truly poisoning our kids with chemicals, whether plastic or food additives.

Hang out at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. It will make you wonder.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by Patt

I only read the first link and I quote:

"You can feel perfectly confident using any plastic that is marked microwaveable in the microwave, and you and your family can use it with health and happiness," says Rob Krebs, director of communications at the American Plastics Council. "The vast majority of plastics used in food wraps and packaging containers do not contain the chemical constitutes that can form dioxins, which are a family of compounds produced by combustion at temperatures greater than 700 degrees Fahrenheit."

LOL, never trust the words of the corporation that makes the stuff!

Originally Posted by wyld thang

"homosexuality" in fish is SO not the right word--it has to do with not developing the male sex equipment, screwing up male hormones--big difference.

Um, sorry, my sources say homosexuality. Maybe both happen.

Originally Posted by chickenslayer

Yeah and I've got some beautiful oceanfront property for sale in WV.

What?

[Harry Chickpea]

"Plastic has also been linked with homosexuality in fish."

So therefore...

There were plastics in Biblical days.

Fisher of men takes on a WHOLE new meaning that I don't want to get into.

The early Greeks were big plastics users.

Mrs. Robinson's husband wanted to convert Dustin Hoffman into a homosexual.

learn something every day.

"Plastic mixing bowls: Glass looks better, works better, lasts longer, and can be recycled less expensively."

Nope. I've got a set of plastic mixing bowls I bought about 15 years ago for a couple of bucks. We still use them today. Went to Fred's today and saw a similar set on sale for - - - Two bucks. Meanwhile, DW broke one of her glass set of bowls and the edge of one of the others is covered with scotch tape because it chipped on the edge and is sharp. We can't afford to buy a new set because they are too expensive.

"Spatulas: Plastic migrates toxic particles when heated. The last thing you want is to cook with plastic."

Feh. If you heat a spatula to the melting point when cooking, you have more serious problems than plastics.

"Cutting boards: You're cutting something on it, right? You're also cutting the board - plastic is toxic. You can eat wood in small amounts - go for a bamboo cutting board - bamboo is prolific."

OK, get the story straight. Plastic lasts unchanged for hundreds of years. How does something that lasts unchanged for hundreds of years give off toxins? Does it pay other materials to do the dirty deed? Does it become toxic on nights with a full moon? You can't have one idiotic claim of danger that totally contradicts another idiotic claim of danger and expect anyone but idiots to believe BOTH. Six year old boys learn than one. BTW, I like wood cutting boards. I don't need fallacious hype for bamboo.

"Clothes hangers: Wire works better, lasts longer, too!"

Ya know something? I agree. Wire coat hangers are also better welding rods and they breed better.

[texican]

I wish pesky old oil would just disappear overnight, with all of it's myriad blessings and curses.

I like glass jars... about the only glass jar suitable for canning, is spaghetti sauce jars, and I don't get enough of those to count.

Btw... when oil disappears, so will civilization.

I'm one of those strange birds that doesn't curse the leaves, but curses the roots... but also realizes that the roots have tentacles in every sphere of our lives... and those folks that don't have tentacles enveloping them, are sheltering under the umbrella of those that do, and if that umbrella disappears, they'll 'get wet' with everyone else. Oh, the humanity...

[wyld thang]

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Um, sorry, my sources say homosexuality. Maybe both happen.


What?

um, your sources (mindfully.org) are more than a little...not objective. And I see Monavie in the list of stuff.

Anyways, plastic messes with or mimics or both, with hormones. Hormones direct expression of sex(as in male or female, not "sexuality" as in who you are attracted to), as in development of sex organs and fertility. In males this affects things as in "feminizing", as in low sperm count and under- or un-developed gear, or "expression" of testosterone. Still a VERY different thing than homosexual behavior. All the various articles I've seen dealing with the problem of feminization of males(from plastic, soy, or estrogen in the water) speak to the hormone problem--calling that problem "homosexual" is misleading and derogatory(saying that they are defectives caused by plastic).

Feminization of males is THE serious FUBAR scenario--no sperm, no offspring. Homosexuals still produce sperm--identify the problem correctly and wake up.

And, um, lots of fat messes with hormones too--where do you think MOOBS come from? estrogen from lotsa fat. Are we crusading just as much against too much fat? nope. It's easy to blame plastic.

[Harry Chickpea]

Heritagefarm, I often lose arguments with myself.

The essence of my humor at the front of my post was to point out that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof to be reasonably considered, and that the implied inferences of poorly substantiated claims are often ridiculous.

I just am cursed with an eye for claims that are way too broad and I have an automatic reaction to bring them back into reality. I did go into Fred's today and did notice bowl prices, before reading this thread. Honest. I do like wire hangers better than plastic, and I do think wood is superior to plastic for cutting boards. I gladly acknowledge reasonable observations and claims. I just don't appreciate easily refuted claims like plastic cutting boards are toxic. In that role, plastic is no more toxic than glass. The only way either would be toxic is if you tried to swallow one and choked.

Plastic precursors may have side effects on hormones, but so do all of the flushed medications, which are designed to affect hormones and allowed a free pass. I'd say that hormones in this case, as a known problem, are higher priority.

PVC - I AGREE with you. That is potentially a BIG issue, just waiting to get blown up by attorneys. Burning PVC is some of the nastiest stuff around, FAR worse than friable asbestos in many ways. However, it is currently ubiquitous and there is no good replacement. I already know what will eventually happen though - some company will come up with a replacement that isn't quite as toxic when burned, and THEN the ambulance chasers (including attorneys from that company) will start suing the makers of PVC, forcing it off the market, and promoting another public panic so that money can be made by selling the new product. It happened with asbestos, it happened with freon at least a couple of times. That is the new American way.

There ARE problems with plastic. Those problems deserve attention. Junk science and hyperbole works against getting the real problems discussed seriously. Much as I would like a serious discussion, I've yet to see a public discussion on the problems of PVC that isn't peppered with wild speculation and claims.

BTW, I really should take pics of the corrugated pipe plant near here that uses all those recycled bottles as feedstock. Not all plastic is the same. And, FWIW, oil is not a finite resource, and is renewable over time. It can and has been made from coal, and many of the components of oil can be made from wood. Burning oil for fuel isn't terribly smart, but we'll outgrow that in time. We outgrew burning whale oil.