Another snake question

[PrettyPaisley]

Found a snake that is black in the out building where the feed is stored.

Makes sense-not to worried.

Went to check for eggs in the coop that is attached to the chicken tractor. The snake made it's way all the way across the back, into the tractor, into the coop and up on top of the laying boxes. This caused me worry.

This snake was thick. It was very black and about 3.5-4ft long. It was *not* aggressive. When we tried to run it off with a large shovel, hoe and tree branch (we're novices here) it wasn't in a hurry to leave. It was pouring down rain, and I mean POURING and it had been off and on for a couple of hours, so I figured he was just trying to find a high, dry place to hang out.

We were trying to move him because he had a hen cornered and I wanted the 4 eggs in the boxes! And truth be known, I did want him to leave. Quickly.

He had an angular shaped head. When he opened his mouth it was white. I am trying to learn what snakes to be leary of (have a 4 year old who loves to run around with wild abandon) and which to just watch out for.

The shape of the head and the white of the mouth made me think cottonmouth. My neighbor and another friend swore up and down that a black snake doesn't have a non-venomous snake shaped head, but I don't know. I thought black snakes were thin-this one was stout. I can't find anything imagine wise online to put my mind at ease.

My momma says it might not be a cottonmouth because it wasn't aggressive. Thoughts?

[oneokie]

Rummage around here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=cottonmouth+water+moccasin+pictures&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=cottonmouth+water+moc&gs_rfai=

[Ravenlost]

Cottonmouth:



Rat Snake (that was in my chicken house eating eggs):



As you can see, both snakes have a pattern. There is a black rat snake though. Was the snake you saw solid black?

I have never come across a cottonmouth that was NOT aggressive. I have also noticed that when a person is nervous/frightened ALL snakes look like they have a triangular shaped head!

Best way to tell if a snake is venomous or non-venomous is to look at their eyes. Venomous snakes have slit pupils, non-venomous snakes have round pupils. To be honest, I've never been willing to get close enough to an unidentified snake to tell what kind of pupils it has!

BTW...the stick next to the cottonmouth is the one hubby used to kill it. The rat snake was relocated, not killed.

[tyusclan]

Everything you're saying, with exception of the lack of aggression, tells me it was a cottonmouth. It is the only snake I know of that has a white mouth on the inside.

I don't normally kill snakes, but a venomous snake in the yard is a dead snake.

[Ravenlost]

Originally Posted by tyusclan

I don't normally kill snakes, but a venomous snake in the yard is a dead snake.

Same here!

[motdaugrnds]

I'm pretty sure black snakes also have white mouths (inside). David, who knows snakes pretty well, tells me he is thinking what you have is "not" a cotton mouth. In fact, it sounds like a rather friendly black snake that would be real nice to keep on the place. (A large black snake is worth the cost of a few eggs as it is territorial and will help keep the venomous snakes off your place.)

Here is a pic of a large black snake. Notice how "stout" it is.

[momofseven]

Sounds like a black snake to me too. I always relocate them, they may be an asset to the farm, but a snake int he nest boxes will frighten the chickens.

Just a FYI... black snakes do bite and I ended up in ER last week because of that, so be careful!

[KMA1]

Pretty,

I don't know exactly where you are, but generally in North Carolina, there are 3 possibilities. The first is a black racer or blacksnake. Based on your description of it not trying to get away, I don't think that was it. Second possibility is a black rat snake, and they often climb in and on manmade structures and many times will not attempt to escape in buildings or trees where they are off the ground. I suspect this is what you have. While the picture Ravenlost shows is a rat snake, it is most likely an intergrade between gray and black. The back rat snake can be completely black, especially in poor light. The third possibility is a black kingsnake, which is heavier bodied than racers and completely black. All these snakes have essentially white mouths.

Hope this helps.

[quietstar]

My best guess is that your visitor was a Indigo (black) snake. They can be fiesty until they know you better. They tend to scare folks when they reach mature size of 6ft.+.

Providing you could block entry into the hen house section, it could earn earn good wages in eggs for keeping dirty rats and mice away from your feed. Keeping one in the barn/feed storage is a family tradition with us...Glen

[SLD Farm]

I keep cats to keep mice and rats away. I do not want snakes any where around me or the barn.
Sorry, but I would have killed it, even though my husband would be totally against it.

[Ravenlost]

That good snake you would have killed would have killed a lot of venomous snakes for you!

Forgot to mention another way to tell a cottonmouth is by the tail. They have a fat body and then the tail tapers suddenly. You can see what I'm talking about in the photo I posted.

[pancho]

I have a snake around my bio shelter that I have just about wore out moving it out of my way. Don't know what kind it is but it is shiny black with small yellow spots. Seems friendly enough and never gets mad when I have to move him.

[PrettyPaisley]

He's not dead! If the neighbor finds him he will be but so far he's still alive. I don't really want to get to know him *too* well but I don't mind him hanging out if he doesn't hurt my 4 year old.

I wish I could recall his tail!

[Bearfootfarm]

A Rat Snake won't hurt your child but it WILL eat your eggs or any young birds

[Ravenlost]

Originally Posted by PrettyPaisley

He's not dead! If the neighbor finds him he will be but so far he's still alive. I don't really want to get to know him *too* well but I don't mind him hanging out if he doesn't hurt my 4 year old.

I wish I could recall his tail!

I was referring to SLD Farm, not you. Best thing you can do for your four-year-old is teach the child proper behavior (and ID) with snakes, as in stay away from them and let them go their way. My parents always taught us to not fear snakes and what venomous snakes looked like. We were taught how to handle snakes and did so a lot growing up (we even lost a green snake in the house one time).

pancho, that sounds like a black rat snake.

[TedH71]

Indigo snakes are considered extremely endangered because people collect them for the reptile pet industry (illegal now) and people kill them because they think they're poisonous when they're not.

[KMA1]

PrettyPaisley's snake is almost certainly not an indigo snake, she is several hundred miles out of indigo snake range. Only way that could happen is someone illegally had a snake and released it in her area.

Pancho, don't know where you are located, but your snake and the description of moving it so many times sounds like a speckled king snake, a close relative of the black king snake that might be what PrettyPaisley saw.

[PrettyPaisley]

mot-that is a stout snake. But this one had no markings on it. Not even light, faded ones. Could it still be a black snake?

Everyone around here (but me-probably because I have a little one) thinks it's a black snake. I hope they are right!

[Bearfootfarm]

Everyone around here (but me-probably because I have a little one) thinks it's a black snake. I hope they are right!

A Black Rat Snake would be the most logical assumption for your location
A Water Moccasin has a round body profile, and Rat Snakes are flat on the bottom with a rounded top

Adult rat snakes are typically 3-5 ft (91-152 cm), but large individuals may be more than 6 ft (183 cm) long. The appearance of rat snakes varies greatly throughout the geographic range. Black rat snakes are more northern in distribution and are characteristically black on top with a faint hint of white between some of the scales. Yellow rat snakes are greenish, yellow, or orange with four dark stripes running the length of the body. Gray rat snakes are dark to light gray with darker gray or brown blotches. The juveniles of all subspecies resemble the gray rat. The belly is whitish in color near the head and becomes checkered or mottled toward the tail. The body cross section is loaf-shaped and not round . Rat snakes have weakly keeled scales and the anal plate is divided.

http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/snakes/elaobs.htm

[jlrbhjmnc]

I vote black snake, too. I'm not a snake expert! But we had plenty of snakes around when I was growing up in NC - my stepbrother lived to bring them to the house to show my stepmother, he he - oh, the screeching!

The behavior you describe sounds like a black snake - placid, up on something, not threatening but wanting to stay where it is. I would think a cottonmouth would have given you a very scary time instead of just being stubborn. One of our clients had a black snake take up a position in their garage shelving recently, probably to get away from their dogs. She knew what it was and appreciated its ability to keep dangerous snakes, rats and mice away, so they came to an understanding and the snake was relocated to the front yard where the dogs don't go very often.