Disinformation

[Patt]

Disinformation : false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth.
Merriam Webster dictionary

When we first bought our place here it came with cattle. The family who sold it to us had health issues that forced them to move to town and they were glad they didn't have to take their cows to the sale barn. They were members of The Cattlemen's association and recommended that we join. It had lots of perqs like free monthly dinners sponsored by various Ag businesses and free loaner equipment and access to field bulls when needed. We joined a couple of other groups and got our kids in 4-H and found ourselves flooded with magazines and catalogues and listening to various agribusiness speakers.

Before we decided to buy a farm we had done our homework and we had read a lot and we mainly wanted just to feed our family of 5 good healthy organic food. We found very quickly that all the information that was being shoveled our way was giving the same message over and over and it flew in the face of organic. Questions along the lines of anything vaguely green or organic either got us pitying looks, vapid looks or the party line explaining to us why that was nice for our garden if we really liked pitiful looking crops and extra work but to be farmers we needed piles and piles of their stuff. And oh the stuff to be had! The latest feeds, minerals, pesticides, herbicides, sprays, grass seeds, other seeds, on and on it went. And then of course there was all the shiny new equipment and stuff, stuff and more stuff.

Course then you had the agri lenders always happy to sort you out a loan for all that stuff. And everyone was happy to commiserate with all of the farmers on how the cost of farming was so high and the income so low and how terrible that all was. They lauded farmers to the high heavens because they were feeding the world and nobody understood how hard it was and what heroes farmers really are.

Well we tried for a while to keep asking questions and throwing out ideas and eventually we gave up and found some like minded people who understood us and could answer our questions and we found a pretty good sized thriving and growing community of organic farmers. A lot of them were kids who were passionate about farming and they were all starting small and building from there. They were making a decent living at it too.

On the other hand the conventional farmers were up to their eyeballs in debt with all that neato stuff and it finally hit us that the reality was there were people making one heck of a lot of money off of agriculture in America and it was sadly not those farmers. It was the people in agribusiness. All those people handing out those free magazines and bringing those monthly free dinners and mailing out butt loads of disinformation. They were making money hand over fist.

So here is my question for you: why do you believe what you believe about farming? Is it because you are bombarded by people all telling you the same things? Is it possible that they have an agenda? Maybe to have you put in all the blood, sweat and tears and come out poorer in the end so they can sit in their offices and rake in the bucks on your backs?

I hear the same things over and over again: No one can start in farming today unless they inherit land, it is just too expensive. Really? I can introduce you to 15 or 20 young farmers in my area who didn't inherit anything but they are making a good living off farming.

At the end of the year farmers will have spent more than they net in profits. Really? First why would you do that, that is insane? And second again I can introduce you to a lot of farmers who are pulling in way more than they spent.

Kellogg's makes $4 for a box of cornflakes and the farmer nets 4 cents on the corn. Seems to me if you really want to make money you need to start making cornflakes....

[sgl42]

same applies to at grocery store too -- lots of advertising for colas, processed food, etc. but no ads for rice and beans.

and that's the corruption of the system. it's been growing this way for decades. and behind the scenes, the big ag companies have been lobbying to bend the rules to help them. eg, the public wants to know if GMO plants were used in processed foods, but big ag lobbies to prevent requiring that info to be put on labels.

i used to subscribe to the "mainstream" view, based on the "free market gives consumers what they want" mantra. while i still believe that free-markets are good, i learned too much to actually believe we have a free-market in ag products these days.

--sgl

[clovis]

This should be a very interesting thread. I have lots of thoughts, but I'm too lazy to type them.

[Ravenlost]

Me too clovis!

[Jerngen]

I agree with you Patt. There's a mold that's been formed the past 50+ years by Big Agriculture and the money behind keeping that mold intact deepens every year.

I know of a few homesteaders/small farmers who broke free of that mold and are doing quite well for themselves. Most are living debt free to.

(No, the ones I've met and bought from regularly did not inherit their land either)

[MrCalicoty]

Excellent post Patt. Unfortunately I expect this thread might denigrate into a lot of belly-aching about this and that. Rather, how about taking the highlight of your information where people are making good money with organic farming and expand on it for the benefit of interested readers?

We have enough land to be able to produce much more than we need for our own food consumption and learning how to garden organically and make a profit seems like a great idea to me! Perhaps a new thread called "Profiting from Organic Gardening" or something.

Forerunner has done a tremendous job detailing his composting methods. Something similar for profitable organic gardening would be a tremendous resource.

[Callieslamb]

I haven't found the same experience as you in my local suppliers. I have a feed store 1/2 a mile from me. If I want organic grains - they will get it. When I asked questions, at first, they would smile and basically pat me on the head and say, "good little city girl". But over time, they have come to understand that I am here to stay. They I have read a bit here and there and have money to spend with them. I don't let them sway me into buying things I don't want. But they have literally bent over backwards to help me. They didn't get the grain I wanted last week so the store manager DELIVERED it to my house. They listen to my ideas. We have a great relationship.

I realize that my little feed store isn't a big AG community organization. But they obviously buy into the traditional ways of raising animals and feed. I think we will see that over time - the 'new' ideas will carry more weight as the funds are spent. Farmers just need to hold steady and keep their focus. If they don't want debt - dont' buy into it. Others will get the message soon enough.

But, yes, I farm in ways I have been instructed - by the books I read and associations I have made with like-minded people. They just have a different mindset than the establishment.

[Our Little Farm]

I am thankful that I live in a community that is big on natural and organic. Lots of hippies settled here. So the feed store accomodates, local stores get in organic grain etc.

It is easy to be blindsided by big incorporations 'looking out' for us, but in reality they are looking out for number 1 only. It is time we all stood on our own two feet and decided things for ourselves.

Many have grown lazy and expect others to do the thinking for them. This includes all the food that we eat. It is a lot easier to go to a store and buy something then it is to understand what went into that product to get it from the farmer to the table.

Being more self sufficient, growing/raising what we need, or buying locally from trusted friends and neighbors would change America if we were all to do it.

[Patt]

Good suggestion on the organic gardening/farming thread. Where I am right now we have way more demand than supply. Lots of small growers several of whom I have seen expand every couple of years just trying to meet the demand. I really and truly believe we can see the resurgence of the small family farm here in the next 20 years or so with so many people chosing to opt out of the endlessly consumption driven society that has become America. Tons of small farms are available combined with people who want a new life style and a rapidly growing market for fresh farm to table foods. I don't see the momentum slowing down. And one of the really nice offshoots that I have seen are how many of these smaller farms are handing over stuff to their local food pantries. Our Market puts tons of healthy food into the hands of the needy every week. Food security is increased too because I can buy literally everything I need to eat frm our market and it all comes from 100 miles or less from the city where I buy it. If we could have every city ringed by farms again that supply all that cities needs wouldn't that be wonderful?

I really hope too that everyone can see that I am not trying to be negative. My goal is just to wake people up to the possibilities. Farming used to be a really solid profession and if you put plenty of hard work into it you could expect to hand your children a good inheritance. Farmers were prosperous and looked up to in America and everywhere. Why did that change? How did that change? How can we change it back?

[Patt]

Our local Co-op has helped us out too, they are small and locally owned and so while they stock mainly conventional stuff they have slowly added things that we ask for. Fortunately it has been good for both of us since we have more and more people moving out here looking for green stuff and now they have it to offer. But they thought we were pretty weird at first too!

[ET1 SS]

Patt - I agree with you completely on this.

We have also seen those two 'sides'.

My parents were 100% hook-line-and-sinker in support of Agribusiness farming, and after 80 years of it the only cash they made was from full-time jobs that supported their farms.

Two summers ago one of our sons went to spend the summer with my parents. The idea was that if he liked it, he would inherit their farm. But their farm is in the red. And he was not about to work full-time off the farm to support such a hobby.



That said, I am a member of an Organic Farmer's network and I sell produce at a farmer's market. I am not showing a profit from it yet. Though I do rub elbows with folks whose farms are their only source of income. No debt, no fancy equipment, and no petrochem fertilizers.

[geo in mi]

Well..... organic/non-Agribusiness got one tenent right of those needed to take hold and compete on its own: the "better" part. But it still needs to work on "faster", "cheaper", "non-interrupted supply", "world volume", "dependability", "consistency", "consumer loyalty", "free of blemishes or insect flaws", "steady pricing", "machinery availability", and maybe more....... and do it on a volume basis that guarantees a steady and yearly profit making it worthwhile for the farmer to commit and stay in.....

Not taking a negative view, just trying to point out that North America is just one player in a world market for agricultural products. One bushel of organic wheat doesn't feed too many of the six billion mouths asking for a piece of bread each day. We organic folks will have to increase our perspective to the world view rather than just the fourteen inch distance to our keyboards.

Until then, I'll probably hedge my bets on John Deere: http://www.deere.com/en_US/ir/financ...condqtr10.html

geo

Just a comment:

In 1970 I lived in Farmington, Maine. The local grocery store ( in those days there were no "supermarkets") had a wide selection of foodstuffs from local growers..in the dairy section, one could buy fresh goods labeled and dated by local growers..i.e Butter..Linda Brown's farm 8/01. In the meat section, same thing. I'd love to see that return!!

[Patt]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Well..... organic/non-Agribusiness got one tenent right of those needed to take hold and compete on its own: the "better" part. But it still needs to work on "faster", "cheaper", "non-interrupted supply", "world volume", "dependability", "consistency", "consumer loyalty", "free of blemishes or insect flaws", "steady pricing", "machinery availability", and maybe more....... and do it on a volume basis that guarantees a steady and yearly profit making it worthwhile for the farmer to commit and stay in.....

Not taking a negative view, just trying to point out that North America is just one player in a world market for agricultural products. One bushel of organic wheat doesn't feed too many of the six billion mouths asking for a piece of bread each day. We organic folks will have to increase our perspective to the world view rather than just the fourteen inch distance to our keyboards.

Until then, I'll probably hedge my bets on John Deere: http://www.deere.com/en_US/ir/financ...condqtr10.html

geo

I agree with some of your list, some of it I think we really are getting down and a few things (like perfect looking) I think actually aren't important. Once you get a consumer to try a fresh picked tomato with all that flavor they won't care that it is lopsided or maybe has a blemish or 2.

I think the biggest strides organic has made is teaching people to eat locally in season. It really opens eyes to the advantages of organic and it gives people a different standard to judge their food by.

As far as global goes the best thing that we can do is continue programs that give growers in other countries what they need to start their own local food supplies. They have far more trouble than we do with supply interuptions. They need small local growers! Programs like Heifer that provide people with animals, micro loans that give people a foot up and getting their water supplies steady and clean, teaching them simple organic methods and donating seed are the best way to fix those problems in my opinion.

[pcdreams]

Very nice post Patt. I'd like to use it for a blog post if I may.

I agree.. Around here I get the same thing when I ask about organic..

[Patt]

Originally Posted by pcdreams

Very nice post Patt. I'd like to use it for a blog post if I may.

I agree.. Around here I get the same thing when I ask about organic..

Thanks. That's fine with me.

[Darren]

I think we're up against basic human nature. That's prejudice. Prejudice is a human trait that enables quick decisions without considering the facts. It's a trait we use every day, often every hour, possibly every minute of our lives. It simply is a way of avoiding thinking about something we do repeatedly.

Sitting in a doctor's office with my mother waiting for her appointment time, I was amazed by the number of pharmaceutical reps that were in and out. They always left something for the doctor. The doctor will have to seek out alternative information on their own. What is the chance of that actually happening given a doctor's schedule?

Same with traditional framers. They literally can't get away from the prejudiced actions they're learned through the years often going back to their grandparents. The current buzz word is thinking outside of the box. Good luck with that.

Unfortunately there's so much stuff in the box or boxes most people inhabit mentally because of prejudice, that it is virtually impossible to counter because it's so ingrained. Prejudice is like breathing. Most times we don't think about it. In fact prejudice is to thought as breathing is to the body. It is essential.

Now add the government we have which is the best government money can buy- it's bought and sold every day- and you have a variety of interests that reinforce prejudice. Around here lots of folks are farmers. If they didn't have a day job, they would starve.

The information is out there. I was amazed when I visited the Rodale farm to learn that they had been growing the same rotations on fields going back to the forties and making money doing it. The knowledge has been out there at least that long.

It's hard not to conform. We all conform in ways we don't realize. Prejudiced acts again. But ... it doesn't have to be that way as this thread shows.

[Patt]

I just honestly don't get that: why would anyone do something as hard as farming especially if it required them to work off the farm at a regular job because they lose money every year? It sincerely boggles my mind. It has to require an amazing amount of, I don't know brainwashing? to get people to do that.

[sleeping_gecko]

Originally Posted by sgl42

same applies to at grocery store too -- lots of advertising for colas, processed food, etc. but no ads for rice and beans.

and that's the corruption of the system. it's been growing this way for decades. and behind the scenes, the big ag companies have been lobbying to bend the rules to help them. eg, the public wants to know if GMO plants were used in processed foods, but big ag lobbies to prevent requiring that info to be put on labels.

i used to subscribe to the "mainstream" view, based on the "free market gives consumers what they want" mantra. while i still believe that free-markets are good, i learned too much to actually believe we have a free-market in ag products these days.

--sgl

Good point. I like to point out to people how "0g trans fat" really just means "We finagled the serving size around until it was under .5 g of trans fat per serving".

Good point that it's not really a free market. I think Joel Salatin pushes that point a lot, that, without crazy subsidies, things would balance out better. Kind of like the economy as a whole.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by Patt

I just honestly don't get that: why would anyone do something as hard as farming especially if it required them to work off the farm at a regular job because they lose money every year? It sincerely boggles my mind. It has to require an amazing amount of, I don't know brainwashing? to get people to do that.

I agree.

As a child I remember; on one hand my grandparents who had been farming before the Dust-Bowl and who had bought into it all, and the PetroChem fertilizers left a salt residue on their soil which slowly poisoned their soil until no organisms could grow and it became dead soil and blew away. And my parents who were both tweens were shaken and really effected by it all and growing up in those conditions.

On the other hand, I also remember my parent's farm; the County Ag-Advisor coming out and doing soil tests, and telling us exactly how much PetroChem to spread per acre. My parents were members of the Cattleman's group, and the Almond producers Co-Op [Blue Diamond], and we got all the brochures. They surrounded themselves with folks who all insisted that this was how you 'farm'.

Today my father is on a different farm, but he is still doing it.

When I attended college, that was largely how I was taught. The examples that I saw were all couples where one of them worked full-time jobs off-farm, to support their farm.

For me, it was not until we moved here in 2005 and joined a Farmer's Market, that I finally got to know people doing intensive organic farming, who are able to support themselves exclusively from their farm production.