Where you live and Regulation

[salmonslayer]

Its very apparent to me from the various threads that there seems to be geographic partition between some who have either accepted big government or resigned themselves that its inevitable and some who fight if at every turn (even if the regulation may actually make sense) and may live in areas where there are not so many restrictions.

I see a lot of posters from Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in particular who dont understand why complying with zoning restrictions, NAIS, etc is a big deal and who think people are nuts for using raw milk (legal and inspected in my state) and others from Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas in particular who are more of a leave me alone and let me take care of myself mentality.

This isnt a condemnation on either side, I guess my main question is if you live in an area with either situation do you just adapt and then become a supporter of that type of system or did you chose to live there because of that type of system. In my case I came from relatively free wheeling Alaska and picked Missouri because I could basically homestead with few restrictions and I like that. Thoughts please, I just see a very clear geographic split and there are no doubt other areas I have missed.

[oneokie]

Should be some interesting responses.

I am of the mind set that I do not want the government intruding into my life anymore than I absolutely have put up with. Seems like any intrusion is a revenue generator for .gov.

I left New England due to the ever increasing taxes and IMHO, just general foolishness of all levels of government..

I picked Missouri because I'd lived here before when I was much younger & in college..I picked my part of Missouri specifically because I hate zoning, local boards and busy-bodies in general.. suits me just fine to be here..well..except for those horrid thunderstorms! I feel so strongly about these issues that I'd rather live in my car than move back to the world of "regulations".

[||Downhome||]

SS there are many in this state are anti big government, as well as government intrusion.

seems to me the dividing line is not so much geographic as much as social up bringing and values. someone brought up in a city is more likely to knuckle down to conformity and just accept what is tossed to them or taken away. I will say even more so when it is multi generational thing.

where as those with a country upbringing have a different set of core values and are taught you have to make do and do it yourself.

Michigan has changed much in my time but there are still pockets of folks that don't buy the pig swill that gets pushed. we get a lot of people from out of state that think michigan needs to be like the place they left, both west and east.then you get the influx of those that cant stand living in the citys or towns and want the country life but then they want to make it like where they left.

the problem we the nonconformists have is the bulk of the population is in the cities and seeing as most things get put to a vote that is a problem, is it not? its also hard to change a lifetime of brain washing. the power seats are also located in the cities.

[rambler]

Lived here all my life - don't know anything different.

If I were king, the rules would be different. But, I ain't, and I don't wanna move - I got deep roots - so what else can I do but try to fit in, sorta like everyone else does.

If there is a group, like Amish, they can fight thinga a bit & get exceptions to the rules.

But me, what can I do? I don't seem to fit in here with the homesteader mindset as I'm told I'm way too big a farmer.

And I don't really fit in with the real farmers, they laugh at my old equipment & small size of farm. One day I was at an Extension meeting, we were talking about draining low areas, I said I had 100 acres that would be wet every spring. The fella next to me said yea he had a field like that, put it into CRP and took care of the problem, just farms around that one. Well - that would be over 1/3 of my farm gone! I don't really fit in there either.

So, I just muddle along, as best I can. Square peg. The govt thinks so too.

--->Paul

[Navotifarm]

Actually, I was born and mostly raised in Manhattan but what actually influenced and formed my way of thinking was BOOKS! At an early age I discovered Louis Bromfield and was particularly impressed by how he related how HIS thinking was influenced by others. He spoke of watching a Frenchman gather worm droppings by a stone wall. I read the Have More Plan, the Nearings, Pearl Buck about her farm in Pennsylvania, whathername Stout, is it Ruth? Who first did the mulching her garden with hay. More recently Michael Reynolds and his Earthships and Michael Janzen with his amazing ideas. All the people (from books) like Luther Burbank and George Washington Carver and Buckminster Fuller who have inquiring minds and creative, nurturing spirits have influenced me or maybe it's that I was drawn to them?

Anyway, I had to strike a balance as to where I live so I can find work to support myself as a free lancer yet be as separate from - whatks the word? Tame people? Trained people? Bureaucrats? I don't know, there may not be a word. Regimented? Ha! People that give me claustrophobia!

In other words, I don't think it's areas so much as instincts. My instincts lead me to look for what would work best. Other people are looking for safety and some find it in rule books and turn key houses and jobs. Of course, put someone like me in a "regular" job and there is immediate discord. I "rock the boat." I jeopardize the nice little niches other people have organized.

[Darren]

WV has many poor rural counties where with the exception of a septic system or well, nothing gets inspected by the government. Even with those systems, any inspection is very perfunctory if at all. It's more a matter of record keeping and a permit than an on site inspection. I've been in many of the commercial kitchens in the county and even with my miniscule knowledge of the "food" code, I can spot equipment violations that have obviously been there since the kitchen was installed.

The other exception is electrical. The power company does require that a master electrican inspect a house's wiring before the electric is turned on. That takes care of the major potential safety issues with a house. This is one place the assessor relies on the owner to self report any additions.

If you build something, no inspector is going to be looking over your shoulder. No one gets put through regulatory hell because they upset some locally appointed self important tyrant that enjoys coding you to death. Even the incorporated towns in this county have no inspection requirements.

If I want to go out and build something, the only thing I need to do, which is universal, is let the local flood plain manager at the court house know where it's going to keep the county out of trouble with FEMA by preventing idiots from building in a flood zone.

I'm thinking that's as good as it gets in this day and age.

[big rockpile]

Me I've basically lived in Missouri all my life.I've always thought it stupid people putting up with stupid regulations in other states.But maybe this is why so many on here don't agree with the way I do things but this is the way I was raised.

big rockpile

[wwubben]

I do not like the fact that people that live over a hundred miles from here can build a huge 6000 sow hog confinement across the road from me.The regulations here in Iowa are at the state level.We need local control on this issue.The county road grader operator told me that there are places in the county where he can grade for five and six miles without passing a home.That would be the place to build the livestock buildings.We have a lot of windmills around here now and the county and local city are writing up some regulations for these.We have regulations on septic systems now.A lot of people are having to install new septics when they sell their house.We do not have a lot of restrictions on building in the rural areas of the county.I believe some government regulation is ok, but I am glad states like Missouri are pretty free from this stuff.People can have a choice that way.I've heard people around here say all my life that Missouri has low taxes and not much public services.This is not a slam but a simple statement of fact.

[Darren]

That's pretty much the way it is in much of WV. Low taxes. In some places you can still buy property somewhat inexpensively. I suspect that will change as many baby boomers retire. I see folks moving here from other states paying high prices, according to the locals, and thinking they got a bargain. which compared to other places they did. One guy moved in from CA and bought a farm to build an airport. The previous owner raped the guy from CA as far as price. Locals still snicker about it.

I paid $8,000 for 41 acres. I also paid $600 for a two story five bedroom house in a sheriff's tax sale. I wouldn't think about living anywhere else.

[bergere]

People out here, do not want big brother, state or other wise to bother them. Lots of livestock folks up here. Pretty much leave people and their animals alone, which I really like. You can garden and eat your own produce or livestock for that matter, which is a good thing.
But if you add a barn you had best get permission and the county surely will up your taxes.
You pay high property taxes and basically get nothing for it.

I will be heading King George/Essex/western Caroline County VA at some point.. looking for a piece of land over there as I type.
Found out over there you have to have at least 5 1/2 aces to be able to have horses.
That you can't have any kind of horse shelter with in 300' of the neighbors front door.
Do not know if that includes having chickens and such too?
Sounds a lot more strict over there.

[geo in mi]

Well, I'm IN Michigan, but not from here. I grew up in Indiana on a very run-down 80 acre farm, which my father should have never bought. He worked in a factory for a major corporation(which went bankrupt recently) and thought he would just become a farmer. Mind you, that large industrial corp had signs all over the South(Arkansas) "... ... now hiring in Anderson, Indiana" So one by one all my family came up to the industrialized Northland........wedged in alongside some highly productive Indiana farmland(not ours, though)

However, Indiana farmers, were very different from the Arkansas sharecroppers who came here.......... Most of them had gotten pretty well set from WWII farm prices. My life on the farm, on the other hand, was one of leaning barns, broken boards, rusty machinery, and baling wire fixes. Somehow we never did overcome the financial obstacles to get ahead of the broken stuff and temporary fixes--and somehow, my father, never saw it very practical to do so, anyway. So, one might say, he never overcame his "hillbilly upraisin's"

If you wanted to snap pics of "bassackwardness", our place would been a photographers heaven. Pigs and cows getting out all the time, machinery that would break down in the critical harvest times, beans and corn left in the field until February, mudholes that would suck your boots off, lights that flickered off and on when the breeze shifted, wind whistling through the siding, and so forth. I could go on. We had one old stock tank filled with old baling wire; the path to that was the most worn.........

Now, I know one should "Honor your father and mother"......and I have long since reconciled to that. BUT, now that I have my own place, I do make some effort to do it differently. Having grown up pretty igornant of the rules and regs, I usually find out that they are pretty good things to follow, they are the collective wisdom and the trial and error learning experiences of others that now keep me from burning down my house, electrocuting my kids, or flooding my basement, or having my roof not cave in. To me, the building codes are minimun standards at best.

Zoning ordinances? Well, ovbiously, the more people per square foot, the more rules you will have. In this part of Michigan, it is further complicated by the "lay of the land", so to speak. The soil here can quickly turn to swamp, for one thing, and we have 133 named lakes in this county alone, plus numerous pothole ponds and such--so building zoning gets complicated, along with septic codes and land use issues. There is a high degree of below the poverty line population here, so sometimes the codes are just impossible to meet for those without means, making for some enforcement issues.(Or ripoff landlords who put a vinyl siding "facelift" on a house and leave the interior junked, then getting HUD approved high monthly rents) We also have many temporary--out of state lake residents--who sometimes come in with some pretty far-fetched ideas of what constitutes living in Michigan. Sometimes they act like they have a finger permanently stuck in a light socket. If they manage to stay here a couple of years, they eventually relax and get to liking the lifestyle. So, balancing between "rural, country" expectations and "big city, suburban" ideas is quite a challenge, and our rules and regs try to maintain that with some sense of equity. (They do pay some pretty big property taxes to us....)

Also, in rural Michigan, the Township is the seat of power concerning building and land use. The elected officials are our neighbors who live alongside us. I've found most of them to be pretty congenial and sincere, wanting to do good things, with a sense of fairness for all residents. Usually, if a resident is congenial in return, who is willing to cooperate, who has his own sense of fairness--will get his way with zoning variances, or special, unusual requests. The ones who get a cold shoulder are those who "demand" their way and portray the elected officials as stupid boobs. (I wouldn't want those kind of folks for MY neighbors, would you? Even if they are a half mile away from my fence.)

I also worked with Habitat for Humanity for a few years, and I got to know the inspectors and village, township officials pretty well. A quiet, humble approach got me pretty far in doing what was needed to be done. Well enough to sleep good every night.....

geo

[terri46355]

Having grown up with a system that you had to have a permit or license to do anything, I wanted to get away from that. Now I understand why these practices are in place. Inspections are designed to keep the contractors and sub-contractors honest and make sure the job is done to predetermined specification. It is for the safety of everyone.

You wouldn't believe the people who call themselves mechanics, HVAC techs, electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc. and don't know how to do the job! Some may be cutting corners to make more money, but I believe a lot of it is lack of knowledge. Almost everything I've had worked on required 2 or more tries to get it right! Sometimes you're stuck with a real mess and have to hire someone else or do it yourself.

I believe there should be more trade schools, so people who have the desire, can learn a trade from someone who is qualified to teach them. If given the opportunity, many of the people who do terrible work, would be able to learn the right way and be successful. This would prevent a lot of frustration for everyone.

[Lyra]

I take it you have never had neighbors who have houses that are almost falling down, burn their garbage upwind of your place, have their dogs do their business in your yard, have their cats take over your land, use the neighbors garbage bins instead of their own, dump their sewer by bucket loads, have the Humane Society take their horses, etc.

North, South, East, or West doesn't matter. Bad neighbors turn people into lovers of regulations and standards.

[Danaus29]

This area is going regulation crazy. You used to be able to fence off your garden without having to pay for the privilege, not anymore.

[Qhorseman]

I live in Central,MO close to Lake of the Ozarks, if you live in the towns I think they do follow UBC and require permits, out in the county a person can build pretty much whatever he wants, whenever he wants. The Electric co-op don't give a hoot what happens on your side of the meter. The only sewage regulation is you have to have more than 3 acres to have a lagoon(potty pond). Well's have to be drilled by a state licensed well driller. Other than that all is fair out here. The county assesor comes by once a year and checks for any newly built buildings, then asesses accordingly. I think they are more and more using Google Earth for that job.

Overall, I like the government to stay out of my business. I pay my taxes every year, then they need to just leave me alone.

Originally Posted by Lyra

I take it you have never had neighbors who have houses that are almost falling down, burn their garbage upwind of your place, have their dogs do their business in your yard, have their cats take over your land, use the neighbors garbage bins instead of their own, dump their sewer by bucket loads, have the Humane Society take their horses, etc.

North, South, East, or West doesn't matter. Bad neighbors turn people into lovers of regulations and standards.

No..it made me a lover of a 12 gauge Home Defender

[highlands]

I chose my location in a big part because of the fact that there was no zoning and almost no regulations. As long as we have 10 acres or more, which we do, we can do what we want. Since then the state has made a rule that we had to get a permit for septic (something I can easily design myself) but I am already grandfathered in. Our taxes are less than many other states as well. I do not expect a lot of services and would rather not pay for them.

[Heritagefarm]

In our area, it's pretty much do whatever, don't bug your neighbor and they won't bug you (usually... Except the in-laws). Everyone is someone's cousin, my friend had a crush on someone but come to find out, she was too closely related! It's live-and-let-live, sell raw milk from uncertified kitchens, sell baked goods wherever you want, you don't need permits, there are no building codes (resulting in houses like ours, that was originally a lean-to with chickens), and you can burn shingles if you want (although you shouldn't). There are environmental laws around streams and Conservation land, but that's about it.

[Timberline]

My beautiful state is quickly becoming over taxed and regulated. Our little valley here, that for so many years was a sanctuary from what the rest of the mountainous areas of CO were becoming, is no longer. So many new people here, with lots of money, trying to turn us into Aspen. It's happening.

A good friend of mine has a ranch that's was homesteaded by his family well over a hundred years ago. As he told me the other day, "I never wanted to leave home, it never occurred to me that home would leave me." That's exactly how I feel.

You have to have a permit for everything, constant fights and battles over which users can enjoy the public lands, very hard to start a new business here unless it fits with the town official's ideals of "little Aspen."

We are being taxed to death. In our little town, the sales tax is now 7.4%, and there will be a vote this fall to raise county taxes, again. My property tax has doubled in 3 years. The taxes on our commercial property in town (we own a city block, our back area is fenced and leased to a lumber company and our tire store is in a 10,600 sq ft building) was over $9,000 last year. Our home place and the mining claims totaled about $4000 in property taxes.

Colorado has had a population explosion, just too many people everywhere, and they seem to want to change everything.

We are seriously looking to move in the next few years. My heart is in these peaks, and that's why I've been asking about Alaska, I need big mountains, snow, and wilderness and fewer people.