GONE FOR $100 a whole house

Navotifarm · #1 07/09/10, 11:27 AM

Oh the pain! I have no TnAndy here. After I had the sheriff run the rip-off loggers off my land, I had a huge pile of felled and limbed pine trees, stacked for the loading boom which. I thought would be just perfect for making a cordwood octagonal house. Heck, half a village of them!

Yesterday evening I came home to find another logger whom I had found on craigslist last April and discussed his finishing up the job on a 50/50 split, had arrived. It took them about two hours to set up their boom and only about an hour to load those logs the other guy had worked so hard to prepareand assemble.
I drove up and parked nearby so AFTER the logs were loaded, this guy (we haven't signed a contract yet) came up and said to me, "Now, you remember I'm only paying you $100 a load for pulpwood." Of course, what I remembered was the 50/50 split! On trees that hadn't been harvested yet! "Well, these are all dried out from sitting here so long."
Give me strength! Dried out woulda been better for a cordwood house!
Oh well, I need my tax $ I guess some greenbacks in the hand is better than pieces of a house on the ground.
Sorta.

Common Tator · #2 07/09/10, 11:57 AM

I always loved the vertical log house Dorothy Ainsworth built. You can read about it here: http://dorothyainsworth.com/build/fortress.html

fantasymaker · #3 07/09/10, 01:20 PM

It sounds like you let $100 worth of greed rip you off!

HOTW · #4 07/09/10, 02:53 PM

Shoulda followed him to the lumberyard and made sure he got paid pulpwood. Nowadays never trust anyone,ever, my experience anymore is they'll try to screw you over anytime.

SirDude · #5 07/09/10, 04:56 PM

Navotifarm, I'm all for the barter system, and I know you have these Taxes due and would like to make your dream house a reality, but I'm afraid you might be getting blinded by the need to raise money. A friend of mine is always telling me, the time to sell is when you don't need to sell.

I would have gotten at least two more people to give you some thing in writing on a flat price. I know the lumber industry is hurting like everyone else, so they might not be buying today, but having your trees for the future is better then a $100 in hand today. If that was junk wood, then it wouldn't have hurt anything to let it sit a fews days longer to get a couple of bids.

What's done is done, but please, be careful with letting anyone cut more trees or do anything more with your land. Is this last logger coming back to cut any more trees? From what you wrote it sounds kind of like he paid you for those trees, but can come back and cut more????

Be Good!

Darren · #6 07/09/10, 05:10 PM

Having your timber harvested is one of those perpetual topics on this site. It's unbelievably easy to get ripped off and once the forest is cut, depending on species, it probably won't regenerate in your lifetime. If your property is under pressure from invasive species, there's a chance it may never regenerate to be what it once was.

Loggers will always cut the mast trees which are the best bets for regenerating the forest. If you're in an area that favors softwood species, at least you can aggressively replant. In hardwood areas, the deer are steadily changing the forests. If those are clear cut, the deer will ensure any hardwood seedling in a hard winter will be browsed and killed.

Navotifarm · #7 07/09/10, 05:30 PM

SirDude, I had a logger from last November till April 20. I had that sorry tale on another thread. He was supposed to clear cut the pine but cut some pine to lull my concerns while he sneaked around cutting hardwoods when I was away at work. Members of an environmental group I'm a member of visited and told me to "shut the barn door before the other horse gets out!" so (after some more episodes), I had the sheriff come and toss him off my land! Now that leaves me playing private investigator, trying to find out where my trees went and what was paid for them so I can sue him for timber theft. Not that I expect to recover anything, just for my own self-respect and to put the saw mills on alert. They should issue split checks to the land owner and the logger, not just fork everything over to the logger. (In my opinion).

The frustrating thing is, I was expecting $10,000 per our agreement so I could pay my expletive deleted land taxes and clear some good pasture. Now I have a horrible mess, hardly any trees and Joe got the money. Starting the night I ejected him, I had an offer on craigslist for "felled and standing timber" since there were about five loads he had cut and limbed just before I bounced him. Trees are sold by weight and those logs have been baking in the 100+ heat. (How do you like Virginia, SirDude, in this weather???)

The problem is, the first logger left such a mess that "real" loggers don't want to be bothered. This guy who showed up last night was the only one who looked at the job and came back. Both these loggers have the most pitiful broken equipment one can imagine. Last night the guy was trying to back up a little grade and his tires just spun. No tread! to get his loader boom up by the trees on the landing stage, they had to grip a stump and pull the truck and trailer with the pinchy thing (I don't know its name). Took them two hours and their clutch gave off a very familiar smell to yours truly who burned hers up in the snow this past winter.

I asked the new guy when he would be bringing his skidder and cutter? He said he is going to leave the cutter at home because it costs too much for the gas. Oh my. You can guess the picture that came to my mind's eye! Probably it is broken beyond repair sitting in his yard all forlorn. Imagine, these two guys are going to be logging with personal chain saws! All 70 acres??? Why do I get the feeling that ain't gonna happen??? As it was, they were there till pitch dark in practically 100 deg loading their trailer after having been up since early morning. They are two hefty (verging towards porky, actually) older guys. City men wouldn't DARE be moving around in the heat like that. Our urban brothers would be stretched out flat on the ground in five minutes!

I don't think loggers are allowed on the highways in the dark but off they went with my could-have-been house so they could be at the sawmill first thing this morning.

There is something very skewed that trees that grew 25 or so years are so devalued that I'll only get a measely few bucks for them and that the loggers have to work so hard for their few bucks. The same thing happened to me with the other guys. I simply admired how hard they worked. Of course, once my trees are gone (and hopefully paid for) I don't know what I will do for an encore to come up with the tax money. Once these guys' equipment breaks totally and they can't patch it any more, they are goners. They can hardly afford gas now but they told me a new machine costs $250,000! Well, they can come live with me in my wicked scofflaw illegal little empty trailer village if they bring new wiring and hold me up as I totter about amongst the broken branches and try to design my octagonal house by weaving wattles and pallets!

fantasymaker · #8 07/09/10, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

Trees are sold by weight and those logs have been baking in the 100+ heat. (How do you like Virginia, SirDude, in this weather???)

!

HUH? never heard of such a thing around Timber is usaually sold by the Board foot. Must be a pulpwood thing? In wich case those suckers would have been in my pond till the sunk!

Darren · #9 07/09/10, 07:23 PM

"I don't think loggers are allowed on the highways in the dark but off they went with my could-have-been house so they could be at the sawmill first thing this morning."

Some loggers in WV almost always run overloaded. DOT usually works regular hours so getting to the yard before DOT gets out in the morning means not getting fined. If the logger's equipment is ratty they may be running at night to avoid getting inspected. Another possible sign that things are iffy.

When I lived in MS the pulpwood trucks were always running wrecks. They were involved in a fair amount of accidents. I always eyeballed them until they got past me.

Sawmill Jim · #10 07/09/10, 07:32 PM

Here if it is pine and lays on the ground two or more months no one really wants it lucky if you get pulp wood out of it . Worms will eat it real good .

crispin · #11 07/09/10, 08:50 PM

I got so ripped off by loggers I let onto my 101 acres. I had no idea how things worked when I let them timber my property.
Everyone around town makes jokes about it to me.... It is something of a very sore subject for me.

ChristieAcres · #12 07/10/10, 01:32 AM

Sad stories, tough to hear them. Glad I am married to a stubborn guy, who flat refused to consider it when I suggested we get a logger to help him & split some $ for payment... Instead, my DH logged the trees, paid a driver, and our concerned retired logger up the road, came down and went to work, refusing anything but food/drink. There were (40) 2nd growth Cedar/some Fir/Hemlock and we ended up with $12,000. This was just logging 3/4 of an acre to clear enough for our garden/orchard. I am sure glad DH didn't take my suggestion and relieved we have stumps, still left to remove. That beats any other alternative ending. So sorry to hear those other stories

Hope others take heed of the warnings!

Darren · #13 07/10/10, 06:25 AM

It would be nice if the administrators of this site could keep posts forever rather than trimming them periodically. That would make if far easier for folks to search and find info quickly rather than post the same questions repeatedly. There are sites out there that get large numbers of posts every day that keep everything. I seldom post on those because I can search and find the info I need even if it was posted many years ago.

When you look at some of the misery posted here, it makes sense to keep the older posts for reference. That practice could save a lot of folks time and money. Only getting $100 for a truck load? of logs dosen't make sense. I've paid more than that for fire wood. Of course pine for firewood doesn't cut it.

There was a post here once that referenced adjusting knotter on a bailer. I could still use that if it was available.

texican · #14 07/10/10, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

SirDude, I had a logger from last November till April 20. I had that sorry tale on another thread. He was supposed to clear cut the pine but cut some pine to lull my concerns while he sneaked around cutting hardwoods when I was away at work. Members of an environmental group I'm a member of visited and told me to "shut the barn door before the other horse gets out!" so (after some more episodes), I had the sheriff come and toss him off my land! Now that leaves me playing private investigator, trying to find out where my trees went and what was paid for them so I can sue him for timber theft. Not that I expect to recover anything, just for my own self-respect and to put the saw mills on alert. They should issue split checks to the land owner and the logger, not just fork everything over to the logger. (In my opinion).

The frustrating thing is, I was expecting $10,000 per our agreement so I could pay my expletive deleted land taxes and clear some good pasture. Now I have a horrible mess, hardly any trees and Joe got the money. Starting the night I ejected him, I had an offer on craigslist for "felled and standing timber" since there were about five loads he had cut and limbed just before I bounced him. Trees are sold by weight and those logs have been baking in the 100+ heat. (How do you like Virginia, SirDude, in this weather???)

The problem is, the first logger left such a mess that "real" loggers don't want to be bothered. This guy who showed up last night was the only one who looked at the job and came back. Both these loggers have the most pitiful broken equipment one can imagine. Last night the guy was trying to back up a little grade and his tires just spun. No tread! to get his loader boom up by the trees on the landing stage, they had to grip a stump and pull the truck and trailer with the pinchy thing (I don't know its name). Took them two hours and their clutch gave off a very familiar smell to yours truly who burned hers up in the snow this past winter.

I asked the new guy when he would be bringing his skidder and cutter? He said he is going to leave the cutter at home because it costs too much for the gas. Oh my. You can guess the picture that came to my mind's eye! Probably it is broken beyond repair sitting in his yard all forlorn. Imagine, these two guys are going to be logging with personal chain saws! All 70 acres??? Why do I get the feeling that ain't gonna happen??? As it was, they were there till pitch dark in practically 100 deg loading their trailer after having been up since early morning. They are two hefty (verging towards porky, actually) older guys. City men wouldn't DARE be moving around in the heat like that. Our urban brothers would be stretched out flat on the ground in five minutes!

I don't think loggers are allowed on the highways in the dark but off they went with my could-have-been house so they could be at the sawmill first thing this morning.

There is something very skewed that trees that grew 25 or so years are so devalued that I'll only get a measely few bucks for them and that the loggers have to work so hard for their few bucks. The same thing happened to me with the other guys. I simply admired how hard they worked. Of course, once my trees are gone (and hopefully paid for) I don't know what I will do for an encore to come up with the tax money. Once these guys' equipment breaks totally and they can't patch it any more, they are goners. They can hardly afford gas now but they told me a new machine costs $250,000! Well, they can come live with me in my wicked scofflaw illegal little empty trailer village if they bring new wiring and hold me up as I totter about amongst the broken branches and try to design my octagonal house by weaving wattles and pallets!

Did you have a timber deed filed in the courthouse? If not, it's he said/I said...

Selling pulpwood is a losing proposition from the get-go, unless you're running a plantation, and they need to be thinned. The price is so low, I'm amazed the 2nd logger didn't ask You to hand him a Benjamin to haul em off. Usually not worth the trouble of hauling a loader out, for such a small amount.

I've looked into cordwood homes... actually cut a few cords of cypress (you know, supposed to be rotproof... well, only the heartwood is rot resistant) and stacked it up to dry. Most of it rotted away, now have only small heartwood centers. Did an evaluation of the work required to locate, cut, haul, and stack the 'cordwood' vs. buying several tons of rock at a time, and realized quickly that rock beats cordwood in price. And that nagging old Three Little Pigs tale... In short, I don't think I'd ever want to use pine pulpwood for a cordwood house. Pulpwood sized trees (especially if 2nd or 3rd growth, or just plantation pines) grow quick, and have wide growth rings... great for pulp, and passable for kiln dried studs, but 'blow' for cordwood, in that the wood rots quickly, is a desert feast for every wood eating insect. I'd seriously recommend going with a rot resistant species such as cedars (white, red, what have you), cypress, locust, etc. It's a lot of work to build with rock or wood... might as well go with the best wood possible, if you don't have rock handy or cheaply available.

sorry about your 'kiln dried' pulpwood sale... they do go by weight now, so thats a bummer...

Navotifarm · #15 07/10/10, 03:43 PM

Texican, your post was REALLY helpful as regards what kind of wood for a cordwood house yogether with your conclusion that rock would be better. Some years back I went to the Mother Earth News Village when Jay Shuttleworth and wife still ran the magazine. I went to some cordwood lectures and joined in a cordwood workshop so I had some actual building experience. I was thinking my pines would be poor but there's lots of laps on the ground from the oak that was cut and taken while I was asleep at the switch. Of course, the touristy little experience I had with the cordwood seminar, the wood was already cut to uniform lengths. The way you describe it, I realize how much more work it would be just to prepare the logs!
It would be nice to see a thread on comparisons of DIY house building materials, cost, practicality. One reason I was attracted to cordwood was that supposedly it would be fireproof because the concrete between the logs would thwart fire spreading. They claimed the wood was a ggod insulator and the concrete stabilized the temperature.

Mountainview42 · #16 07/10/10, 04:49 PM

Well, since the original post topic has been throughly hijacked... How about we start discussing the pros and cons of various building mediums?
And of course when pushing your choice, be sure to say what area of the world you are in and justify real hard why your cord wood house is much better than my oregon cob house, or Jenny Mays earthship etc..
Oh how I love a good hijacked thread.