Some Questions for the Alaskans (Long and Rambling)

[Timberline]

Dh and I have talked for years about a possible move to the Great Land. We have been there (not in the winter, however) and have acquaintances (but no close friends or family) there. Our plan at the moment is before making a move we'd rent our place here out for a year and rent one in AK for a year. Live there at least a full year before making a decision.

We currently live at 8000', it never gets hot here and winters are cold with deep snow. Our average frost free growing season is supposedly 90 days (but rarely is that long). We're used to these things and enjoy them. We love mountains (I must have mountains) and are very experienced with mountain activities: hiking, atv's, snowshoeing, cross country skiing, snowmobiles, have avalanche training, survival, wildlife, etc.

Dh is concerned about long, dark winters. Our area boasts 300+ days of sunshine and it's true (I think CO also has one of the highest skin cancer rates). So, I am concerned about it, also. Hence, the rent and live there first idea.

CO is getting too much like CA for my tastes. Lots of rules, regs, taxes, etc. And the population is always on the rise. True, most of them are on the front range, but many of them spend their weekends/summers in the mountains.

Taxes here are on the increase. Our property taxes have more than doubled in the last 3 years or so, no sign of that slowing down. People are building up all around us and we've lost much of our rural setting.

A lot of locals can't live at our elevation anymore as they age, it's too hard on the heart. We've looked at a lot of Alaska having a much lower altitude, but still having the mountains and wilderness, fewer people, more elbow room and more freedoms.

Some of my questions are financial. I know the cost of living is much higher there, but am wondering if the tax benefits will offset this enough to make it feasible. We would be 100% debt free and would not need a mortgage.

Here's what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Alaska has no state income tax.
No state sales tax, although some cities and towns collect sales tax.
Every Alaskan receives an annual payment from the Alaska Permanent Fund (amount varies by year)
Areas outside of municipalities don't have property tax.
If you do live where there's property tax and you're 65+ the first $150,000 of your assessed property value is exempt.
No state inheritance taxes.

How do the locals accept new people? I know it's hard to generalize, and I know how your present yourself makes a difference. As an example, around here, most people are polite and friendly, but not like several years ago. Anymore, we're tired of having our way of life trampled by new residents that move here and immediately try and make our valley like the place they came from. New people who try to fit in and adapt to the area are more warmly welcomed.

We are some years away from this (I won't move while my parents, in their 80's, are living) and know things can change over time.

What area of AK do you live in and what are your likes and dislikes about it?
What areas would you recommend? I like the ag history and culture around Palmer, but don't want to be that close to Anchorage. We would want to be on the road system, neither one of us are pilots or want to be.
Of course, we would homestead as much as possible. Garden (probably have a greenhouse like we do here), a few chickens maybe, etc. Are you able to do these things in your area?

This is definitely in the dream stage and sometimes I think I'm too old (I'm 42) for such a big move, but you never know how things will work out. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I would really appreciate your thoughts and insights.

[lonelytree]

I am from Colorado. Loveland and the NE corner. I spent a lot of time looking for the right place to finish my years when I retired from the AF in 2001. I spent 3 years up here in the 90s. I returned to Alaska.

Do you have a way to earn a living or enough funds to start a remote business? Living on the road system out of Palmer can be challenging. There are years when you can get 6 months of construction flagging or assist with cabin building. There are DOT jobs that are tough to get into.

About an hour from Palmer the people really start to thin out. It is beautiful country. I drive through it most weekends.

People treat you as you treat them for the most part. There are some elements in the bush that are not outsider friendly.

Elevation is not going to be a problem.

http://matsugov.us/

Having your property paid for is one key. Being self reliant is another.

Snowmachining can be good or great. Rarely is it bad.

Fishing is not what it used to be. Subsistance fishing can really help with the food bills. You have to be a resident to participate. Unit 13 is a draw area for caribou. We put in for 5 tags and got none and I have property in the area. You should be able to sign up for road kill moose/caribou. It is an easy way to put meat in the freezer. The area has lots of bunnies, birds and predators.

Mike

[Timberline]

Thanks, Mike. Being from CO, you know how the sun shines here. Did you have trouble adjusting to the Alaskan winters?

I'm not hung up on Palmer, just want to be able to have a garden, etc. I really like the areas around Paxson, Talkeetna, etc. I have to build fences to keep the mule deer and elk out of my garden, guess I'd have to learn how to build moose fence!

If we were to make this move, it would be retirement, so won't be job hunting.

What's the market like for larger properties, say 100 or more acres? Are there many properties like that? Around here, there are some big ranches left, a few smaller ones like us (65 acres) and most everything else is an acre or less. There are subdivisions coming up all over. It just about kills me to see once productive hay fields and pastures turned into lots.

[salmonslayer]

I just moved from Alaska a couple months ago after being stationed there for years and we still have a lot of family there. Most of your financial statements are correct, there is no state sales tax or personal income taxes but property traxes in the urban areas are really high and where I lived in Juneau the sales tax was 6%. Alaska treats seniors very well and newcomers will have no problem fitting in because most people in Alaska are fairly new themselves and werent originally from Alaska (it has one of the highest rates on in and out migration of any state). I lived in Southeast and SouthCentral but have been everywhere from Pt Barrow to Nome, to Bethel, to Fairbanks and all points in between. Palmer and the MatSu valley are the ag center for Alaska and there are a lot of farms in the area. Temps do get cold in the winter in the interior and southcentral but summers can also be very hot and dusty (the fairbanks area has a huge temperature range from winter to summer).

Land is very expensive the closer you get to urban areas or on the road system and the more remote you are the more food, fuel and utilities cost. I lived in the capital and the median house cost was about $330K and you would have a large lot at half an acre, southcentral and the MatSu or up around Fairbanks the housing is more resonable and you can find land much cheaper. The far north and western Alaska are pretty grim in my opinion as far as buying a place or living.

Its beautiful, the hunting and fishing are great, and many people garden (we had a small greenhouse) but I got to the point where I couldnt handle the winters and the often overcast grey rainy days during the summer. We also couldnt afford to retire there unless both of us maintained fulltime professional careers which just wasnt an option for our lifestyle. I think you have a good idea if your seriously considering it, rent for a year if you can afford that and then make a decision. If you have movers move you there be prepared for a price shock, it was over 10K to get our HHG and vehicle to Missouri from AK. I have pictures in my blog of Wasilla, Juneau, Sitka, Ketchikan, Nome, Eek, Aniak, and Bethel from various trips if your interested.

Good luck and if you havent already, get a copy of the Alaska magazine, good pictures and articles about the Alaska lifestyle.

[PulpFaction]

Hi there. I'm a relative newcomer to the state compared to some of the others here, but here's what I've found:

1) Really, the cost of living balances out for me. I'm always appalled when I go back down south and think I have enough cash on me for the item I'm purchasing only to get knocked out of the game with a 9% sales tax. Insane! By doing most of your major purchasing in the Anchorage municipality, which has no sales tax and all the shopping resources one would need, you end up saving a LOT. Even when the prices seem higher on the shelf, I've found with some items they still come out cheaper without sales tax. If you save up all you're purchasing and only make a few major shopping trips a year, you REALLY see that savings.

Not a property owner or even close to being a retiree, so I have less insight on that. However, property taxes are, as I recall, based on the borough if not the municipality. Anchorage area property taxes are high, Northstar Borough (around Fairbanks) has no prop tax. Don't know about Fairbanks proper, though.

2) Daylight/Sunshine. This can be a tough one. For example, I will usually have a lot of trouble sleeping at first in the spring as there begins to be more and more daylight, but seems like most petty quickly adapt or black out curtains/eye masks come into play. I used to be prone to pretty extreme seasonal depression, but haven't had an issue since I moved up here, oddly enough. For me, that might have to do with the fact that there is just so much to DO in the winter BECAUSE it's winter, and down South that really isn't the case. You may not have that benefit coming from another area with lots of winter activities.

The bigger concern may ultimately be the often rainy/cool summers in much of the state. Anywhere coastal is subject to very cool and wet weather, year-round. The farther interior you go, the better summer weather you generally get, but the winters are also colder and darker, so it's a trade off and it will take you being up here to figure out what works for you and what is more important.

I'm moving up to Sutton about 15 minutes outside of Palmer on the Glenn Hwy. It's an area I'm really excited to be in, has a very rural feel but is very accessible to outside work. Warmer and sunnier summers, but I'm told the winter winds are pretty rough with frequent gusts up to 60 mph. Palmer area, in general, is known to be pretty windy.

Anyway, our place in Sutton comes with an existing garden and greenhouse. It's been a tough year for large scale agriculture because it was very sunny and dry on the front end of the season and is now cooling off and getting rainy, which is pretty much the opposite of what you want for crops. But, it's working for my garden, since I was able to water it through the dry and get it off to a strong start. A greenhouse or some sort of season extenders are pretty much a must if you want things like tomatoes and cucumbers, corn is tough but I hear they can get some up around Fairbanks. Cold crops and brassicas do fantastic. Carrots, radishes, peas, lettuce. Last years carrots lasted me til this spring and are the sweetest carrots I've ever tasted.

My rabbits do just fine and dandy. I'm told the chickens I'm getting will be easy to winter. Lots of goats up here. Pretty cheap local oats and barley make feeding affordable if you want to go a more natural route, the nutritious weeds are abundant in the summer. Hay and straw can be expensive.

It sounds like you might really like the fringes of the Mat-Su valley, particularly down the Glenn Hwy. It gets pretty rural pretty quickly in some directions. The Talkeetna/Sunshine/Cantwell area might also interest you.

As far as people, I've been surprised at how much that can vary from town to town. In the summer, tourists are viewed as a necessary evil and if you move here then, you will probably not be accepted as a real local until well into the winter season. A lot of people move here just for the summer, so that's understandable. After people realize you're willing to stick it out for the winter, you'll get more respect, but depending on the area may still take a while to be really accepted. Seems the more rural, the more that is the case. Sounds like your situation with outsiders moving in from elsewhere would be comparable. In most areas people are passably friendly, some downright starved for social interaction, but for the most part it's just live and let live.

Good luck, and when the time gets closer, let me know if you need any help.

[PhilJohnson]

A few comments from an almost Alaskan resident. A few years ago I had put some money down on some property up there. I looked around at land prices, they seem way too inflated. Cheapest I found land was 500 bucks an acre (in the area I nearly bought in) but it was mostly permafrost and a four hour drive from Fairbanks. Getting money from the Alaskan state dividend fund helps offset some of the higher cost of living and the lack of property taxes in the unorganized boroughs is nice but the price of even bare necessities seemed pretty ridiculous.

Looking around closer to home (continential US) I found land that was just as cheap (or cheaper), way cheaper cost of living, and had as little regulation as the Alaskan bush. Also from what folks have said it is quite cloudy up there (I hate rain and clouds). Would be a very good idea to try before you buy. Might love it or you might hate it. I'd like to try it for the fun of it one of these days but I have a feeling between bugs and rain I'd go nuts.

[Timberline]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

where I lived in Juneau the sales tax was 6%.

I have pictures in my blog of Wasilla, Juneau, Sitka, Ketchikan, Nome, Eek, Aniak, and Bethel from various trips if your interested.

Good luck and if you havent already, get a copy of the Alaska magazine, good pictures and articles about the Alaska lifestyle.

Thanks, salmonslayer. The sales tax here is 7.15 and they want to increase it again. Property taxes here are getting bad, too. Doubled in 3 years, and wasn't low to start with.

Going to check out your blog now.

I subscribe to Alaska magazine. Love it!

[Timberline]

Thanks for all the good input, Pulpfaction. I see you have a blog, too. Headed over to check it out.

Thanks, phil. Sunshine (or lack of) is my concern, too. Would definitely live there at least a year, before selling properties here to make the plunge.

[lonelytree]

Originally Posted by Chalk Creek

Thanks, Mike. Being from CO, you know how the sun shines here. Did you have trouble adjusting to the Alaskan winters?

I'm not hung up on Palmer, just want to be able to have a garden, etc. I really like the areas around Paxson, Talkeetna, etc. I have to build fences to keep the mule deer and elk out of my garden, guess I'd have to learn how to build moose fence!

If we were to make this move, it would be retirement, so won't be job hunting.

What's the market like for larger properties, say 100 or more acres? Are there many properties like that? Around here, there are some big ranches left, a few smaller ones like us (65 acres) and most everything else is an acre or less. There are subdivisions coming up all over. It just about kills me to see once productive hay fields and pastures turned into lots.

Most retired people that I know do not spend the full winter in Alaska. The winter can be tough depending on your location. Having 3-4 hours of daylight is rough on some people. The guy I bought my lot from was born in Otis Colorado. He goes south the end of October and comes back in May. I have a friend in Copper Center that spent many years in Loveland. I went to school with his daughter. She just moved back out there. He is nearing retirement and is a full year resident.

My retirement cabin is well past Palmer. It is in a very large area of lakes with a small population of people. Tracts smaller than 5 acres cannot be subdivided. There are a few retired people that spend the full year there. They share dinners and other activities. Some have some very nice places and some need a bit of maintenance. There is no commercial power, gas, etc. Generators, batteries, solar panels and fuel stoves.

There is a very desirable piece of property for sale right now. No road access though. I rode my snowmachine through it this past winter. Nice place and in 10 years it may have road access.

You don't need a large acreage. I have 5 acres and have access to thousands. None is leased out. Over the counter sales have been minimal for years. Distance from cities makes it as remote as you can get without an airplane.

Full time and summer residents have greenhouses loaded with veggies. Blueberries and others are almost everywhere. The fishing is decent . You can subsistence fish for salmon about 70 miles away and get as many as you could eat if you choose. Saltwater fishing is 3 hours away. Halibut charters etc.... some of the best silver fishing around off the banks.

Different people have different ways of dealing with the dark winter time. It really does not bother me. I am a night person after working most of my AF cereer on nights. Summer is awesome. I sleep when I am tired. Nap at times for an hour or so. I have taken naps on the boat, on the beach and on the tundra. It is very easy to sleep when away form the noise of the city.... but you know that. I spent a lot of time around Chambers Lake and Red Feather Lakes when in high school.
Mike

[Timberline]

Thanks again, Mike. I appreciate your insights and the time you've taken to reply. You've given me more things to consider.

[lonelytree]

I reread some other posts. Gray skies etc.....

The area northeast of Palmer is not on the gulf. It needs the rain that it gets but is not a soggy gray place for long periods at all. Snow loads vary by the year. Good snowmachining requires a boatload of snow. I ride freight sleds. Tundras to be specific. New style. Not great for windshield, but I won't ride at -20 unless it is very short. They boondock very well. There are MILES of groomed trails.

http://www.eurekalodge.com/trails.html

There is also gold mining in the area.

Mike

[Timberline]

Looks like so much fun. We have 6 sleds, no experience with the Tundras.

Dh has been an avid rider since the early 80's, it is just incredible what he can do with his machines. He is an Arctic Cat fan, currently his favorite is his M1000, with options and mods for deep powder and steep climbing. He likes it best when it's steep and deep. I currently have an F7 Firecat with some mods for powder. I like it because it's very comfortable, has 3 settings for hand and thumb warmers, and the heat exchanger runs through the rails which keeps my feet warm.

[texican]

Originally Posted by Chalk Creek

A lot of locals can't live at our elevation anymore as they age, it's too hard on the heart. We've looked at a lot of Alaska having a much lower altitude, but still having the mountains and wilderness, fewer people, more elbow room and more freedoms.

From my experience, you can roughly 'add' 5000' to Alaska's mountains, to get the equivalent 'elevation' of the lower 48 mountains. Treeline in places is only a few thousand feet, and then it's glaciers....

You really need to have something to do during the dark months... some folks 'do' go mushing or snowmobiling in the dark.

I don't know if such a thing as a moose fence exists.... reckon with unlimited funds you could build a nice pipe framed monstrosity...

[TedH71]

Heard that once you're 65, you get extra money for living in Alaska. Something like $200-300 a month? Had nothing to do with the oil dividends. With that being said, I subscribe to the Alaska magazine and would love to move to Alaska! Realistically I will get to visit Alaska but doubt that the wife would want to move there.

[KIT.S]

We lived in Alaska for over a quarter century, then I've been in Oregon for 18 years. (wow, already...) We lived in Juneau, Anchorage, Fairbanks and on the Kenai Peninsula, most of the time in and around Homer. You might want to check on the Peninsula. The weather is warmer than the interior, and usually warmer than Anchorage, we always had successful gardens and flowers, even without greenhouses, but that's even better. The fishing is great, the beaches are wonderful and can supply a lot of food, you can usually get a moose or get on the road-kill-list, especially as retired people. I raised rabbits, chickens, goats, and neighbors had cows. The hay prices will shock you, though.
When we moved to Oregon, I was amazed that the housing prices didn't differ much, but the fresh veggie prices were a lot higher in Alaska. "It's the shipping!."
I would suggest you expect to use black-out curtains as the spring progresses, to get enough sleep until you're used to the full daylight in the summer, but now I miss 24 hours of light. When I was there, I worked, so having only 4 hours of light in the winter didn't matter - I went to work in the dark and came home in the dark: same as I do here.
As retired folk, I would suggest you consider that in the winter, your driveway or parking area and access to the house will have to be shoveled at least every time you want to leave the house. There are people who will come do it for you, or you can get a truck & plow and do it for others! I got tired of having to shovel snow before I went to work, then again when I came home, and in the dark. And the only time I was warm in the winter was in the shower or in the car. Too cheap to run the furnace enough to actually keep the house warm.
But what I really do miss is the people. Of course I had been there for years, so I was an "old hand," but they're friendly, helpful, outgoing, generally honest. Homer was a great place to raise little kids. Everyone watched out for them without being too intrusive. The schools are excellent. The residents are actually concerned about their kids' education and most are involved at least to some extent in local politics. After all, what else is there to do in the middle of winter? When we were there, seniors could attend classes at the local University of Alaska Extensions for free, got one car licensed for free, and their hunting and fishing tags were free. Also, if they couldn't get out and hunt or fish for themselves, they could lend the tag to someone else, who could do it for them.
Anyway, I would also suggest Alaska magazine, and you also might subscribe to the newspaper of the places you're considering.
Good luck! Hope you love it there!
Kit

Amended to add: Forget the moose fence. I've seen an adult moose hop over a 7 foot fence into a little garden the size of a single garage, and hop back out again. And take one bite out of each of the cabbages!

[fantasymaker]

When looking at Remote areas and being shocked by cost remember that a occasional trip to Anchorage to shop and socialize will DRASTICALLY reduce costs.
One of the HUGE cost reductions about living remote is that Do it yourself is much more "IN" Build your own house, Hunt your own meat butcher your own raise some chickens or rabbits.
Another cost reduction is recreation. For instance you don't JUST take a trip to Happy valley You go when its Clamming time. You don't drive 300 miles just to see the Russian River you Fish for salmon while there. You don't just go camping In the national forest you go when Wind blow timber is available to cut for house logs and firewood...etc.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!
First Id go in the summer and find summer weather you like. Then winter weather is very location sensitive. For instance The kenai which is all close to the coast varies a lot in a few miles Seward seems cold rainy and overcast year round when I lived there. Homer just a few miles away seemed much sunnier year round but still dreary a lot .A few miles up the road at Kenai the weather seemed like the perfect mix TO ME.
Lots of sunny weather at Copper Center but way hot in summer and way cold in winter.
The Sutton Chickaloon area ALWAYS Seems wet and windy to me and it much farther from the coast that anyplace on the Kenai.
I LOVED Living on Montague Island but I know it was cold and overcast there a lot....it just didn't seem that way
It sounds like your looking at The Wasilla ,Big Lake, Houston area I liked the weather there a lot. But if you want to be "OUT" you might look a bit farther up the valley at Willow or Talkeetna.

[Timberline]

Thanks so much everyone.

[texican]

If you think Hunting and fishing is going to provide all of your meat... check up on the state regs. When I was last there, a small book was published with all of the regs in it. Big game animals was permit and lottery only. Great if you won a lottery draw, blows if you don't. Sports fishing regs are pretty tough... remember my folks having 'troubles' comprehending the need to listen to the radio every day to make sure the creeks they were fishing were opened or closed (they shut down seasons if conditions aren't right). A savvy person CAN fill their freezers anyway, but it's unlike most hunting and fishing rules in the lower 48. And, Big game can be very very scarce in wide swaths of the area, except for one or two days of the year.

[longshadowfarms]

I'm an Alaskan newbie so I won't try to give advice on stuff I haven't got experience with, but I will add a few comments to areas that I have observed so far. You aren't eligible for the dividend fund until after you've been here a full year, from Jan all the way through Dec.

A SAD light can be rather helpful in the winter. I didn't get depressed, but I did have a hard time waking up in the morning until I started using the light. Other than that, it didn't bother me a bit, but we are in a community where there is a lot going on - people to see and talk to, activities, etc. I don't mind the cold a bit, but I'm also not working outside when it is 25 below. You just dress appropriately and plan to invest in warm clothing. Watch and learn before spending $ on stuff.

Amazon.com with their free shipping over $25 applies to AK as well You do have to watch out for other companies though, because many "free shipping" offers don't apply to AK. The flat rate shipping through the post office is another great thing for getting stuff here reasonably.

[lonelytree]

Originally Posted by texican

If you think Hunting and fishing is going to provide all of your meat... check up on the state regs. When I was last there, a small book was published with all of the regs in it. Big game animals was permit and lottery only. Great if you won a lottery draw, blows if you don't. Sports fishing regs are pretty tough... remember my folks having 'troubles' comprehending the need to listen to the radio every day to make sure the creeks they were fishing were opened or closed (they shut down seasons if conditions aren't right). A savvy person CAN fill their freezers anyway, but it's unlike most hunting and fishing rules in the lower 48. And, Big game can be very very scarce in wide swaths of the area, except for one or two days of the year.

Unit 13 is out of Palmer. It is a draw hunt to caribou. We put in for 5 tags and got none. I can drive 6 hours and get a bou but it is not cost effective. Unit 13 is open for moose but there is a size limitation. 50" or 4 brow tines. There are other hunts around. Some are for the young in body, some are for people that are not afraid of extreme cold. The best hunting is done VIA phone. You sign up for the road kill program and they call you when one is hit. The faster you get there and remove the animal, the more you get called. There is also small game. Lots of bunnies and birds. If you feel the need for deer, you can go for blacktails. Limit is high depending on the area, sometimes 6 or more. They are smaller than midwest deer.

This is one of those years when fishing areas are closing. MANY are closed right now. If you like salmon, you can fill your freezer. It may not be kings or reds, but silvers and pinks are edible and when they are in, you can limit out quickly. Rainbows taste nasty up here for some reason. Halibut is iffy.... even with a boat, you may end up paying $5 a pound or more.

You can always buy a beef in the Palmer area and have it processed.

Mike