Wanted: SCOFFLAWS!!!!!

[Navotifarm]

Now, zoning regulations are just fine and dandy. Many are based on good common sens but also many are weighted toward profit-making rather than ecology. I do not believe that rules for a bedroom community subdivision for urban workers which divert rivers for their water supply should be the same as rules for persons who want to collect rainwater in cisterns and recycle it judiciously. I do not believe zoning rules should apply to all residents in any area any more than the rules and regulations for a farmer raising thousands of hogs under one set of industrialized conditions should be applied to a homesteader raising a couple of pigs behind the house in a woodlot. Different strokes for different folks.
My favorite reading on the internet besides here are the Tiny House sites. Clearly I am not alone in not wanting or needing a 2,400 square foot home on a barren lot. Instead, I want a frugal home on a productive permaculture space where I can raise much of my own food and enjoy the sounds of the birdies and locusts in preference to rap music.
The turn-key folks with their parklike lawns and matching paint schemes are welcome to them but I myself have always wanted an octagonal house set in an open area surrounded by gardens and critters like a jewel with equal beneficient energies coming in and going out. A three-dimensional mandala with lots of horses.
So if there is anyone on this board who is out of place and dislocated from being squeezed into big sterile rectangular houses who has dreams that combine the metaphysical and practical who find subdivision life antithetical to their very souls, who by the way, has a few dollars set aside who can apply a greenback poultice to the heavy wounds taxes are inflicting on me, I can offer a haven where you can experiment with your ideas such as building a tiny house or clearing pasture a la Agmanto o building fish ponds like Fishhead or creating horse trail ls or Yikes helping me build snake proof poultry pens or even raising some scofflaw pigs. Or, hey, maybe it's not to late for a 77-year-old geezer to fulfill a lifelong dream before she croaks? Here's a barter offer: build me an octagonal house (a good one) and you can have some of my land for your very own!
Only if you are a scofflaw, though! Preferably one with horses and German Shepherds!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Sure. Pay you dollars and sweat equity so a you can pay your taxes and improve your property?

Mr. Rogers asks, "Can you say scam?"

[Navotifarm]

Wow! How could angry Alice post a response before I even posted my thread? Was it posted while I edited it?
I know there are some really good people on this board who have had some awful bad luck, homes burnt down, family members killed, spouses absconding with their communal life's savings, homes swept away by floods, jobs lost. There was one person here who worked for years taking care of an elderly couple thinking they'd get the land which was snatched by an heir who now has some small space where they live intentionally without electricity.
I make an open offer to honest people who can craft a win-win barter. If some suspicious persons think it's a scam, then obviously one looks for a prior perpetration and that's a deal breaker. I'm looking for somebody smarter, younger and more capable than I who can structure a deal that works for us AND my land which I don't want to see made into a walmart subdivision or chess piece on a developer's money board or sold in a fraudulent but legal tax confiscation and sale. If wanting freedom is scofflawism, then I'm looking for scofflaws! But I'm looking for law-abiding scofflaws, actually. Higher laws, such as the Constitutional right to enjoy one's own property.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Heavens, I'm not angry. That is a supposition on your part.

It's just that you've established that you are a lawbreaker and now you've offered to take someone in for cash and labor so you can pay your taxes and raise pigs and improve the property.

My response is simply my interpretation of what you posted. Might be wrong. Might not.

My interpretation is also based on years of experience, study, and observation of human behavior -- not to mention debate.

Are you going to make arrangements to have your helper on the deed?

Edited to add: This is, of course, an ancient controversy. Remember "On Walden Pond"?

[fordy]

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

Wow! How could angry Alice post a response before I even posted my thread? Was it posted while I edited it?
I know there are some really good people on this board who have had some awful bad luck, homes burnt down, family members killed, spouses absconding with their communal life's savings, homes swept away by floods, jobs lost. There was one person here who worked for years taking care of an elderly couple thinking they'd get the land which was snatched by an heir who now has some small space where they live intentionally without electricity.
I make an open offer to honest people who can craft a win-win barter. If some suspicious persons think it's a scam, then obviously one looks for a prior perpetration and that's a deal breaker. I'm looking for somebody smarter, younger and more capable than I who can structure a deal that works for us AND my land which I don't want to see made into a walmart subdivision or chess piece on a developer's money board or sold in a fraudulent but legal tax confiscation and sale. If wanting freedom is scofflawism, then I'm looking for scofflaws! But I'm looking for law-abiding scofflaws, actually. Higher laws, such as the Constitutional right to enjoy one's own property.

.................Were I too enter a deal such as you have offered I'd require , a surveyed tract with a legal description , a contract that clearly sets out the specific provisions for transfer of land ownership between Initiation of construction and completion of construction because IF something Unforseen happenens too either party in the Interim there must be a prearranged set of rules too guide both parties too an acceptable closure and fulfillment of the contract provisions ! I'm just stating the way I'd want too structure the scenerio were I intentioned too pursue such . , fordy

[Danaus29]

Would the "never broke a law" people please stand up and be counted!




Not me. Right now according to zoning I am breaking all kinds of laws.

It's a unique offer. Octagonal house. Too bad I don't know more about home construction.

[geo in mi]

"Constitutional right to enjoy one's own property......" Where can one find that in the US Constitution?

geo

[palani]

I obey all laws scrupulously. Of course there are many things that masquerade as law. The line that separates the two is a fine one.

Your best bet to procuring shelter without government interference is to stay out of commerce. You don't do this by demanding greenbacks. Instead, a contract for $1 (silver of the 90% persuasion) and ovc (other valuable consideration ... could be land valued by you at $5) in exchange for construction of shelter (not a house or residence) might get one out of the permit arena by being dollar wise below a threshold for permits established by the county zoning commission.

[Navotifarm]

My word, what fun! It's about 105 degrees in my little legal home here without air conditioning and I may perish before anybody comes up with an offer!
Alice says: "Are you going to make arrangements to have your helper on the deed?" Answer is yes!
Fordy asked the same question more verbosely so the answer would be yes there, too. My survey plat(s) is recorded in the courthouse. If I find a buyer (my land is listed on Farm Link) I would want the buyer to have an updated survey because in looking at the google maps, I appears one of the subdivision guys has taken part of my land. Fortunately he has $ troubles right now so an updated survey filed in the courthouse might be enough to get it back without too much crossfire.
But I'm thinking us scofflaws don't have much money! That we'd all be better off to say thank you to Salmonslayer and relocate in the Ozarks. Hey, maybe Salmon Slayer has kids who want to live here and we can have a land swap?
Well, off to the air conditioned courthouse to do my day job! Tiny house lovers, I hope to hear from you. We can create our own Findhorn right here, with or without my dream house I've wanted for 67 years and may not ever see in whatever remaining years are allotted to me!

[Ernie]

I am a 100% supporter of barter systems, up to and including this as well. However I'd cover my legal bases very carefully from both sides before I'd ever enter into any such arrangement with anyone I didn't know personally and for many years.

I didn't realize land costs in Central Virginia were so dear that anyone who knew how to construct a home couldn't find at least a couple of cheap acres to put it on.

Good luck finding someone to enter into this arrangement with you. About every 3 months we see the same sort of deal and I've never actually heard from anyone how it worked out. I'd love to know more about the end results of such a situation.

[||Downhome||]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

"Constitutional right to enjoy one's own property......" Where can one find that in the US Constitution?

geo

could it be in this line ,

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

perhaps and not by any far reaching stretch of the imagination either.

[Owldancer]

Well now I would like a bit more infomation. Like how much land, water on the land, what exactly is expected, and what all needs to be built.

[o&itw]

:

Originally Posted by geo in mi

View Post
"Constitutional right to enjoy one's own property......" Where can one find that in the US Constitution?

geo

Originally Posted by DownHome

could it be in this line ,

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

perhaps and not by any far reaching stretch of the imagination either.

Well tis close.... but that line comes from the Declaration of Independence

[||Downhome||]

Originally Posted by o&itw

:




Well tis close.... but that line comes from the Declaration of Independence

yes but in the coarse of things isn't that what makes the constitution a viable document just like the constitution conveys the powers and rights to the government and people , with out it could the constitution really stand after all isn't the corner stone of the building the most important?

I have to say it is one of the most important principles that the country was founded on and that the constitution in all reality is a supporting document to the Declaration just as the bill of rights is to the constitution. they go hand in hand do they not?

[fordy]

Originally Posted by Navotifarm

My word, what fun! It's about 105 degrees in my little legal home here without air conditioning and I may perish before anybody comes up with an offer!
Alice says: "Are you going to make arrangements to have your helper on the deed?" Answer is yes!
Fordy asked the same question more verbosely so the answer would be yes there, too. My survey plat(s) is recorded in the courthouse. If I find a buyer (my land is listed on Farm Link) I would want the buyer to have an updated survey because in looking at the google maps, I appears one of the subdivision guys has taken part of my land. Fortunately he has $ troubles right now so an updated survey filed in the courthouse might be enough to get it back without too much crossfire.
But I'm thinking us scofflaws don't have much money! That we'd all be better off to say thank you to Salmonslayer and relocate in the Ozarks. Hey, maybe Salmon Slayer has kids who want to live here and we can have a land swap?
Well, off to the air conditioned courthouse to do my day job! Tiny house lovers, I hope to hear from you. We can create our own Findhorn right here, with or without my dream house I've wanted for 67 years and may not ever see in whatever remaining years are allotted to me!

.................It seems too me that the easiest solution too your dilemma is too sacrifice\sell some of your land , pay the LT cap. gains tax(15%) and then you can build a home as You please ! Much better this way then , Even , IF you have a period of INactivity till you can Initiate a sale . I apologize for my Verbosity , but I was thinking from the builders POV . , fordy

[salmonslayer]

Hey, maybe Salmon Slayer has kids who want to live here and we can have a land swap?

Ha! My kids are all grown and on the left coast though my daughter is homesteading in a remote area of Alaska and my oldest son is looking for remote property there as well. They like 60 below, we dont....

[o&itw]

Originally Posted by ||Downhome||

yes but in the coarse of things isn't that what makes the constitution a viable document just like the constitution conveys the powers and rights to the government and people , with out it could the constitution really stand after all isn't the corner stone of the building the most important?

I have to say it is one of the most important principles that the country was founded on and that the constitution in all reality is a supporting document to the Declaration just as the bill of rights is to the constitution. they go hand in hand do they not?

I whole heartily agree.

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

Ha! My kids are all grown and on the left coast though my daughter is homesteading in a remote area of Alaska and my oldest son is looking for remote property there as well. They like 60 below, we dont....

Is it that they like 60 below or that they like cheap land, low taxes, and limited government intrusion in their lives?

I think if I could get that then I'd be willing to tolerate 60 below.

[salmonslayer]

Is it that they like 60 below or that they like cheap land, low taxes, and limited government intrusion in their lives?

I think if I could get that then I'd be willing to tolerate 60 below.

Its a little of all Ernie, my daughter lives for snow, hunting and fishing and she likes the fact that they are so far out a State Trooper has to fly in if there is a need for cops. No state income tax, no property tax, and no snooty neighbors to tell you what you can or should do on your own property. But its extremely cold in the winter and the darkness gets to me.

[Ernie]

Sounds like paradise to me.