Fencing help needed!

[Willowynd]

We have been getting lots of rain this last month or so....not typical for June at all here. I had to plant the garden late because of it and have not had to water once! Hubby used auger to drill holes for fence posts 3 ft deep or more. A couple holes water over half filled the hole. WQe were not going to cement, but after seeing that, we did. Waited for 3 days and tried to strech fence...3 of the 6 corner posts moved. Hubby thinks by putting braces on the posts at an angle and using lots of T posts along the fence run that he can get it tight enough for the goats. I am having my doubts. Suggestions?

[dragonchick]

The corner braces will hold the post until the concrete sets. We had the same problem and were able to stretch the fence after adding the braces. Early spring was really wet but we haven't had any substantial rainfall in over a month now. We got a few sprinkles a few days ago but that's it.

[Willowynd]

Lucky you! We have had storms or rain about every day here....along with tonados. Thanks for the advice. So many things have prevented this fence from being put up I am getting very frustrated. Been trying to get this accomplished for 2 months!

[Beeman]

Corners should be H braced, concrete or not, and then diagonolly wired and tensioned. You'd have to sink a corner post 6-10' in the ground for it to stand the pull of a good fence without H bracing.

http://www.gatewayalpacas.com/alpaca...e-building.htm
Here's a site with illustrations.

[Bearfootfarm]

What type of fence are you using?

[Willowynd]

Knotted wire tension fence- though it cannot take the pull of as much tension as I thought. Was pulling with help of garden tractor (until belt broke on tractor) and then by hand- wires were breaking.

[Willowynd]

Beeman- I am not installing high tension electric wire strands- for that I know I would need H braces and such at corners. This is "tension" fence, but it does not take that much pull. We went as far as the 2 man auger would go...I have not seen an auger that will go 6 to 10 ft.

[dragonchick]

My corner posts are 3ft in the ground with concrete. The braces are angled off the side of the pull so the brace will dig in should it try to move. We used a come along to stretch the fence which is woven wire field fence. Its stood for 2 years so far with full size goats using it as a scratcher and standing on it. Its loosened a small amount in the middle but not much. We may have to re stretch it next year but the posts have not moved at all. My T-posts are 10 feet apart.

[airotciv]

Goats and Fences. If the goats aren't climbing on the fence they are using it as a scratching post. For all the animals I have ever owned the goat has been the most distructive of them all. Yes, I love my goats, most of the time.
We use 3"x4" field wire fencing, it is 4' tall, 6' heavy t-posts, every 6'. We put barb wire at about 4'8". Then we run 2 hot wires, 1 at 1'6" and the other at about 3 feet. We also corner brace, because we have to. Goats are smart and any weak point will be found. The corners of our pastures, seem to be weak points.

[Bearfootfarm]

It doesn't need a lot of tension.
Just enough to take most of the sag out.
Your line posts will support most of the weight

You could also add "dead man" braces if the corners keep moving

http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pu...B1192-fig9.jpg

[Willowynd]

Thanks for the tips. I had never heard of the dead man brace. I will keep that in mind, also may use that when I go to do the electric tension fence around the perimeter of my property. If I do that, would I need to do H braces on the electric tension fence? Would certainly save on posts.

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by Willowynd

Beeman- I am not installing high tension electric wire strands- for that I know I would need H braces and such at corners. This is "tension" fence, but it does not take that much pull. We went as far as the 2 man auger would go...I have not seen an auger that will go 6 to 10 ft.

Woven wire and barbed wire require H braced corners if you want a fence to last. The wire will tighten like a banjo string in the winter. That's right, an auger won't go 6' which is why the corner H brace.
Your knotted wire should have an indicator like a bend in it to show you when tension is correct. Shouldn't pull with moving tractor or vehicle, should pull with a come along controlling tension. Pull on woven wire should be with a woven wire puller or by claming the fence between 2 2x4's bolted through the wire and pulling on the 2x4.

http://www.redbrand.com/installation/index.asp
Here's some info with video

[Willowynd]

We threaded a pipe through the fence, put a rope through the pipe and pulled very slowly with the garden tractor. We do not have a come along, nor the $50 to waste on something I would only use once. The only other fence we will be putting up will be electric fence which will have inline tensioners.

[Bearfootfarm]

If I do that, would I need to do H braces on the electric tension fence? Would certainly save on posts.

I used 8 ft telephone poles set 4 ft deep for all my corners and gate posts, with no other braces on most of them. I've had no problem with posts moving, even with our sandy soils.
I didn't use concrete either, but simply backfilled and tamped well

If you use smaller posts, you may need more bracing

I also went 50 ft between line posts, using 12 1/2 GA aluminum wire.
Resist the urge to over tighten it, since it's more of a visual barrier than a physical one.

Mine are so loose that I've had trees fall on it and not break any of the wires.
It just pushed them down to the ground

[fordy]

Originally Posted by Willowynd

Thanks for the tips. I had never heard of the dead man brace. I will keep that in mind, also may use that when I go to do the electric tension fence around the perimeter of my property. If I do that, would I need to do H braces on the electric tension fence? Would certainly save on posts.

................If , your posts are 7 to 8 feet long and you've got 5 feet above ground position your horizontial brace atleast 80% of the above ground length , which would be 4 feet if the posts were 5 feet above ground . Also your corner posts and Hbrace posts should be 6 feet apart .
................A diagional brace is easy too install , dig your hole for the diagional brace 6 feet away from the corner post just as you did the others . Now , acquire some 3/4 inch diameter steel rod , make the pieces about 14 too 16 inches long , set them in concrete at a 45 degree angle facing the post they will be attached too , leaving about 4 inches exposed out of the concrete . Now your connecting brace will be attached too the post even with the horizontial brace ~ 4 feet off the ground . You should let the cement set up for about 5 days before stretching any wire . , fordy

[Willowynd]

That may have been an issue- rushing the stretching of the fence. I am going to dig up one of the loose posts and see what the cement is like....if it is still soft, may just do a dead mans brace instead.

[LFRJ]

Great thread - thanks! We're building fences ourselves and DEFINITELY know a bit about fencing in the wet rainy country! Ever more pleasant now that the squitoes are out!

DP is the fence builder round here, with great pride - going 4 feet down with sometimes 10' posts. (We're fencing a sloped area and want the young goats to resist the idea of hopping over with a running start). We use gravel & crushed rock exclusively. Displaces some of the water. So far, this has worked better than the few posts we sunk in concrete a couple years ago, which did lean over time. Tons easier to dig up again too if need be. We are planning to line it with cattle panels for the most part.

It's masterpiece fence. All done by hand with a posthole digger, shovel and a wheelbarrow. Just hope in the end it'll hold goats.

[Farmerwilly2]

I always felt that the strength was in the bracing, not any concrete. When strung correctly the lines of force direct toward the base of the posts and against the side of the hole.

I've always 'rocked' my posts in (I live in a land of limestone). I've had posts hit by vehicles, they snap off but they don't come loose. Layed stone and soil from the hole packs tight, solid and can still drain if it need to---almost like having a 'deadman' the full depth.

[Willowynd]

Dug up one of the posts today...or should I say pulled it out. Seems the concrete settled to the bottom of the hole, the water went to the top and heaved the post- it was on sitting about a foot deep. I called hubby and asked him how deep he went on that hole and he said only about 2 ft as he ran into gravel. Sigh. So now I have a water hole with a lump of crete in the bottom (cannot tell if it is solid- but I doubt it). I doubt pouring dry concrete in there is going to work- just too much water coming in (tried siponing and it was filling up as fast as it pumped out) and digging it out is just going to leave a larger hole of water. I was thinking of driving a 4 by 4 down with a sledge...maybe get below that water or at least when into the gravel maybe it will be secure enough?
Now I am scratching my head....I know my septic feild is off to the left of this area, but I found gravel down there. I know darned well they did not come over that far with the bed as the bed went straight back from the back of my house down to the dip in my land....so now confused. If I am in the septic feild that would have made sense of why the water level is not dropping....but I know I am not. Is it just excess water coming out of the leach with all this rain we have been having? This area is rather flat on top (where the goat shed will be) and slopes gently as it moves back....which is why I chose it. I really don't want to move the posts as that would mean moving the building site as well....and we do not have much flat land here. The only other flat land has already been used....except for out in the back feild and I would not be fond of having to walk that far in 2 ft of snow come winter every day to care for the goats.