Outdoor Dog Questions - And I DID do a search!

[Pony]

We have acquired a heeler/hound cross puppy, about 8 weeks old now. Nice little guy.

Why did we get him? Because we really need an outdoor dog to chase off varmints.

The thing is (don't laugh, and don't come down on us) we aren't really sure how to train an "outdoor" vs and "indoor" dog.

So far, he has his own doghouse outside. When we do chores, we have him accompany us. We're trying to teach him the boundaries, and while he seems very bright, he is young and he seems to forget from morning to evening that he is NOT supposed to go over by the neighbor's cows.

Does anyone have tips on training and such? Also, are we supposed to let him inside the house? Seems to defeat the purpose, I think, but I honestly don't know. Grew up in the city and 'burbs, and never had a strictly outdoor dog (though most of my neighbors do).

TIA!

[TxMex]

I see you have also been stung by the 'you should have done a search first' folks. Many times it would take less time to simply answer the question that to scold you for not searching first(they assume). OK, getting down now

If you want your dog to be an outside dog then don't bring him into the house. Dogs like to be around people and he'll prefer living in the house. He needs his own insulated house preferably under a shade tree. Training dogs is a lot like training children. Consistency is the key. When he has done something you don't want him to do tell him so in a firm voice but don't yell. Dogs read people really well and he will be able to tell he messed up. Also, when he does something he is supposed to be sure and lavish him with praise.

The breed you have is probably going to want to chase cows and range off from the house. This may be your most difficult task is to set boundaries for him.

Remember he is just a baby and have patience until he is out of the puppy stage.

I currently have a 7 month old 80# german shepherd/rottweiler mix that is in the(giant) puppy stage.....told hubby I'd divorce him if he got another puppy after dealing with this one. She's so hard headed and strong that the vet had to sedate her to rewrap her ankles. He said we'd probably have to bring her back daily to get the bandages put back on since we can't get her to stop chewing them off. I told him....then why don't you just keep her here? He said....oh no!....she NEEDS to go home with you. LOL

[Pony]

So it's not really that much different from raising a house dog, except his relationship with the humans will be a bit more distant?

[Pony]

And waitaminit!

What happened to your pup that she had to have her ankles bandaged??

[jlrbhjmnc]

Awww. Cute! Curious young pup. Photo??

I'm a professional pet sitter. We've cared for all sorts of dogs over the last six years. The happiest, healthiest dogs always had someone who had invested the time and effort to train them and be their leader. Dogs think like dogs. Whatever they are doing makes sense to them. You just have to establish yourself as provider and pack leader and teach them what they need to know to please you. If you're his provider and leader and he has the relationship with you, he WILL want to please you.

IMHO, Pup needs a bonded relationship with one or both of you - preferably both. I like tethering: 6 foot lead attached to you all the time, with time for running, play and training off lead and on a longer training lead as needed.

There are tons of good books. I like Joel M. McMains' approach (see Dog Logic: Companion Obedience), but I've seen folks have good results with various techniques. The keys are always the commitment of time and consistency. Training a dog you'll want to have around and that will do what you want/need it to takes time and effort, which of course pays well over the life of the dog. Children don't raise themselves and turn out well and neither do dogs - if they are going to live with YOU .

As young as he is, having him indoors AND outdoors with you as you go about your day - sounds like you're doing this now - will not interfere with his being an outdoor dog. Best to have him house trained, anyway. You never know what the future will bring. More skills means greater flexibility for the humans and the canine. Just have him sleep in his outdoor space.

Good luck with your pup and happy training!

[PulpFaction]

Yep, your biggest problem may be the breeding your pup. Hounds are absolutely infamous for having no regard for anything, least of all boundaries, if they get on a scent. That may be somewhat tempered by the cow dog in him, but then again, that might just make it worse.

I agree with the other poster about consistency. If the dog is supposed to stay outside to protect the property from predators, then you don't want to get him in the habit of coming in at night. It may be best to even keep him in the barn or directly around whichever animals he will be most responsible for and start allowing him to think of them as his personal responsibility.

At this point in the game, I think it is in the best interest for all involved for him to never be left alone loose. He should be on a long line attached to you when you're out, and should be somehow confined when you aren't.

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by Pony

And waitaminit!

What happened to your pup that she had to have her ankles bandaged??

I almost hate to admit it. When we had her fixed we also had her dew claws removed. I've never had dew claws removed on a dog before, but after she had ripped open our arms and several friends arms with those sharp hooks it had to be done. She tends to talk with her front feet...lol. She is getting better as she gets older. She sits on command and no longer insists on leading me places with my hand in her mouth, but she must have the leash in her mouth when we practice walking on a leash.....even if it is a chain.

Yes, pretty much it is like an inside dog, except you will expect more from an outside dog. A good outside dog will run off critters, let you know when someone drove up and not bark all night long at nothing. Osa...which means bear in Spanish....has just discovered fireflies and barks when they light up...sigh.

[jlrbhjmnc]

TxMex - sounds like a very happy dog you have there and she knows how to communicate . Too bad about the dew claw complication. Hope they heal up soon. "Osa" is a cool name.

[katy]

I could be wrong, BUT a cow dog is what it is. I don't know if the herding instinct can be reduced by training or not, a professional is needed IMHO. I one had a blue heeler and loved her but, she couldn't leave the stock alone. She herded them right thru a barbed wire fence, not my cows. I count my blessings that none of them were cut up enough to need a vet.

Best of luck to you.

[Wolf mom]

I have a heeler/X. Great dogs! Smart - but very self directed. Jake would go through an electric fence after a rabbit, then sit & whine to come back home as the shock would hurt! Silly dog.

You couldn't jog with him around either as he'd herd you.

I couldn't ask for a better protector or friend!

[Patt]

I have a heeler hound cross and I have to say good luck! 2 very strong urges to overcome and a whole lot of energy. Blue is a great dog and we love him dearly and he most definitely runs down varmints. I have seen him run down and catch rabbits and he gets all the annoying stuff too like armadillos and possums. He also drags up any and all deer parts left in the woods around us, he was really bad about chasing guineas (not chickens, just guineas) until we used a training collar on him and he chases anything that moves.

He is also a very intelligent dog and when he is with us is very well behaved but left on his own the instincts win over.

[MARYDVM]

He will probably be very good at chasing off varmints, but will likely keep chasing them for quite a ways. Both hounds and heelers are independent and very hard headed. Taking him with you every time you're working outside is a start, but you need a pen to confine him in for at least the first year when you can't watch him. He will roam, he will chase stock and wild critters until he learns not to. Without intensive training he may never be a stay at home dog. His instincts will be telling him to go, while you're telling him to stay. Keeping him busy on the farm is the best way to establish his territory. Left to his own devices he will extend his territory far beyond your boundaries.

[Pony]

We're pretty involved dog owners who believe strongly in training our animals.

I appreciate the reminders about keeping an eye on him, and giving him his own run for at least the first year seems very wise. (With some breeds, I figure 2 years minimum...)

I've always said, "A crate-trained dog is a happy dog," so Frank has his own dog house, with a large cage around it. He already knows it's Frank's Place. We'll expand that as he grows.

I've always enjoyed blockhead breeds -- love my American Bulldogs!-- and I know how to work with independent hard-heads.

The AB we have now is a rescue who is overly submissive. (Long sordid story, but it boils down to people trying to use a loving dog to be a scary attack dog -- they didn't succeed.) He's not one to go chasing varmints, and the herding instinct was beaten out of him. Bud's a pet, pure and simple.

We'll work with Frank -- no going back at this point that I can see. Nick may feel differently once I show him this thread, but maybe not. He's always been a "cat person," and this is the first time he's had a dog of his very own.

[motdaugrnds]

I know nothing about the breeds in your dog; however, I know you must train your dog to keep his own instincts under "your" specified control. This is not easy; but can be done if you spend time with him and stay tuned into "his" instinctive behaviors.

I trained a hard-headed young shepherd by attaching her to the harness of a shepherd/lab/chow mix with a 4 ft. leash. The older dog kept the younger one in check when I was not around. When I was outdoors with them, the leash came off and I kept constant command of the young one. (Kept tiny bits of treats in my pockets to add to verbal praise.) Each time the young one appearred she was headed in the wrong direction, i.e. stalking a baby goat, I would grunt. (Now I can actually look out the window of the house and knock on the window to control any behavior I don't like.)

Now we have a young lab with loads of energy; and the young shepherd spoken of above is training this young lab. The lab is now 2 yrs old and still watches what the shepherd gets praise for; then does it to get praise as well.

It simply takes time and patience and an instinctive awareness of your dog. You need to establish yourself as the "head of the pack"! (I firmly believe one can teach "any" dog in this way.) Good luck in training yours.

[Otter]

Y'know, I'm going to disagree with people here and say house dog, yard dog, don't stress it. I've found that if a dog is independent and protective AT ALL then they're going to want to be outside (where the action is) once they're old enough that the protective instinct comes all the way to the fore.
In my experience, that happens between the ages of 2 and 3.

There are a great many people who think they have "guard dogs" but in truth, they are just unsocialized and bark out of fear and anyone who knows dogs can get past them. The truth is, the better a dog is bonded to his pack and territory the better guard they are. And they can only properly bond to the pack and territory if you spend LOTS of time with them.

Also, since this is an 8 weeks pup, I am going to say that from what I have seen with pups that age, if they learn to deal with habitual loneliness you either get dogs who are wild for attention or dogs who have at best a casual attachment to people. The first is annoying, the second is ineffective.

So what I'm going to suggest (since as a hound/heeler cross independent and protective are highly likely to be facets of his adult personality) work hard on bonding him to you. If that means bringing him in the house, so be it. Train him, focus him on his job (cattle; Down! Leave it!, racoons, Get'im boy!) walk the property line daily and reinforce that he is NOT to go past it. (and no, that won't guarantee he wont, but it will help) and odds are good that even if you take him in the house now it will be an easy transition back outside once he's old enough to be capable of really taking on his duties.
Just remember, dogs LOVE jobs. Focus him as a working dog and he'll work.

But also remember, like teens will be teens (lol, I know you've had teens) pups will be pups. I'd worry a lot more about trouble he's likely to get into as an 15 month old alone outside then about him transitioning to full time working dog a few months later.
The average life span for a puppy raised as a "yard dog" around here is about 3 years, maybe more if you chain them, likely less if the neighbors have livestock. Of course these are people who get a pup and feed it a couple of times a day, minimal (if any) training, though if they have kids, the kids play with it.

[DW]

We've done this both ways...all out & out/in. The current one is 2 1/2...very good. It took her until she was 2 to really get that something is wrong bark but she has it now. She showed up when we had an old dog so we never let her in lots until she was 9 months old. I think they really need to bond with you...puppy's are lots of work!!!

[TedH71]

Heelers don't like to wander. They like to be "helping" their people be it lounging around or biting strangers or herding cattle. Just wait til he's an adult when you'll find out that guarding instinct comes in use! They do like to be kept busy though.

[fishhead]

I would walk the boundaries of your property every day with him. I'd also set him up to see the neighbors cows so I could work on the "leave it" command.

At 8 weeks he's still a kid so I wouldn't expect him to learn anything quickly.

[Pony]

So far, he's really into us, and that's good. I've taken to tying him to me with a rope when I'm out choring and such. He doesn't seem to like it inside the house very much. Nick thinks he's uncomfortable b/c he can't see the sky.

I agree that it's best to make sure that he's socialized and knows his place in the pack. The other stuff will follow.

We have no intention of just throwing food at him a couple of times a day, nor leaving him lonely. Dogs are pack animals, and they need company. And they need a job to do, or they'll get bored and find something to occupy their time.

Hm. Kind of like humans, eh?

[palani]

Find an old coat with your smell on it that you don't mind losing. Make a bed for him out of it to bond him to your odor.