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  #1  
Old 05/26/10, 01:10 PM
Patt's Avatar
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Tax question

Ok since we are taking the leap and all of our income will be from our farm now and what we make at the Farmer's market I am wondering about taxes. Mostly how do you figure income? Is it just for the farm or is it for yourself personally? Do you pay yourself a salary and put that down for taxes or what?

Any links to info on this are greatly appreciated too and will be read.
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  #2  
Old 05/26/10, 01:37 PM
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Farm income is reported on Schedule F and is treated like any other business in that expenses are subtracted from income and what is leftover (if anything) is profit which is what you pay taxes on. You must be able to prove those expenses (keep receipts)

Spending a few bucks for a hour or so consultation with a good rural CPA or other tax professional who works with other farmers would be well worth it.

Farmers Tax Guide http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p225.pdf

Last edited by mnn2501; 05/26/10 at 01:47 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05/26/10, 01:40 PM
 
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of course check with your tax adviser, but in the mean time most small farms are going to be considered self employed SE form also chapter ? profit/loss farm. keep all expenses related to your farm including farmers market fees gas milage to and from anything related to your farm. dues, subscriptions, hired labor to perform work on your farm (dozer/tractor), electricty & water usage, material, advertisement, office supplies, maybe home office, feed, ect. basiclally at the end of the year you will file profif/loss farm on a form #? for income-expence then any profit would be claimed on your self employed (SE) form.
also if you have health insurance you may be able to deduct 1/2 of the premiums on self employed form.
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  #4  
Old 05/26/10, 01:40 PM
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So is that all we file, just the farm schedule? I guess I need to actually look at one, I have done our income taxes for 20 some years now but this new way of life has me stumped. Maybe I am looking at it wrong since technically it isn't salary you put on your taxes it's income.

Thanks for the help.
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  #5  
Old 05/26/10, 01:43 PM
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I don't know all the ins and outs but you might want check to see if you have to pay the 15% FICA tax on top of any income tax on the money earned.
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  #6  
Old 05/26/10, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by watcher View Post
I don't know all the ins and outs but you might want check to see if you have to pay the 15% FICA tax on top of any income tax on the money earned.
Ooh thanks, I never even thought about that! Off to look that up.....
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  #7  
Old 05/26/10, 02:30 PM
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It's a schedule SE that's filed for self employment taxes. It's just over 15%. 50% of that figure is a deduction on your income taxes. It's complicated but doable.
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  #8  
Old 05/26/10, 02:52 PM
 
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after you file schedule F (profit /loss farming) then what ever profit you have you then enter of form "SE" and pay 15% or so as selfemployment tax which is fica when you work for an employer you pay 7% or so and it is match by your employer but when you are self employed you pay the whole 15%. also your can deduct cell your cell phone if your in business and meals if you are away from the farm like a farmers market for the day or weekend. also special clothing used only while farming is also deductible.
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  #9  
Old 05/26/10, 03:08 PM
 
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When you find all the deductions you may can claim a loss . I have a log truck a pickup and a separate office for the sawmill even the tp in the bathroom for it is deductible. Wifes car i just don't mess with . If you start to come up with to much profit buy something you need before the end of the year . New tires on truck ,seed for next year new( business computer) even water hoses for irrigation . I checked on the cell phone deduction can get tricky as can a home office decided to leave it a lone .
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  #10  
Old 05/26/10, 04:20 PM
 
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if you make a profit after filling out a schedule F and all the many deductions on the form, consider yourself making alot of money. Schedule F is one of the most user friendly forms there is and it is all legal. Yes, you file the schedule F with your 1040 where there is a line you enter for it. I believe 2/3rds of your gross income must come from the farm to file a schedule F. Just get the instructions for a schedule F and 1040. You can drive around in a new pick-up and a new tractor and have a loss every year, i.e. no taxes, just a lot of deductions for the farm................

Last edited by swollen tongue; 05/26/10 at 04:27 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05/26/10, 06:52 PM
 
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Ah, if it were that good....

You will fill out a regular 1040.

You will need to fill out a schedule F, which figures out your farm gross income.

You wll fill out a complicated depreciation schedule, which lists the major purchases you have made, and assigns a portion of each purchase to this year as a deduction against your gross income.

You will file the Social Security form, paying over 15% of any profit you make in SS taxes.

You _must_ figure out your farm taxes by the end of February. If you owe, you must pay by March 1st. If you do not owe taxes, then you don't have to file earlier than 'normal.'


Deductions are broken into 3 areas:

Seed, fuel, fertilizer, and other things consumed in one year are all deducted as expenses.

Machines like tractors, plows, mowers, hoes, rakes, wheel barrows, etc. are often considered mid-term expenses, and ard their costs are deducted 1/7 for each of the next 7 years. In special cases you can deduct it all quicker, but it gets complicated. If you re-sell these items down the road, you will need to repay the taxes you saved on them - buy a tractor for $10,000, use it for 7 years, sell it then for $5000, and you will only be allowed to keep the deductions you took on the $5000 - you will need to claim the $5000 you got for the tractor basically like income again...)

Major structures like buildings, greenhouse, tiling, irrigation wells, etc. are considered long term expenses, and are typically deducted over a 20 year period.

If you are serious about doing farming full time for all your income, it is well worth spending $500 on a good CPA who understands farm taxes. There are many games to play, and ways to average your income & expenses to avoid some taxes for some time. Eventually they will get their tax money, but you can avoid some social Security taxes and you can push off income taxes and end up paying capital gains taxes instead many years in the future - which is a good way to go.

Many in farming are very cash-poor, but gain assets until they retire, in order to play the tax games that way.

Again, if you are really looking to make more than a couple thousand bucks a year at farming, the CPA will think of many things you have never thought of to make tax time much easier for you.

If you make $25,000 gross for the year & don't plan things out well, you might owe 15% fedral & 5% state taxes on $15,000, and 15.5% Social Security tax on $10,000.

Real shock if you are used to having your taxes withheld, and all of a sudden in February realize you need to mail in $4550 taxes you never thought about.....

With planning & a good CPA, you might get that to owing only $2000, and you will be prepared for having your paperwork in order & know what the bill will be ahead of time...... Even if the CPA charges $500, he's saving you $1500.....

Those depreciation schedules are where you can play around, take more now or later, and make your expenses match your projected income. If you have a bad year farming, put off deductions until another year. If you expect to make a lot more next year, you can plan to keep yourself in the lowest tax bracket & save.

Think about a good CPA......

--->Paul
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  #12  
Old 05/26/10, 08:12 PM
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Farm income does not need to be 2/3rds and it is not all that complicated. See the farmers publication from the IRS that someone above linked to. Read schedule F and instructions. In your free time read the tax code.
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  #13  
Old 05/26/10, 08:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlands View Post
Farm income does not need to be 2/3rds and it is not all that complicated. See the farmers publication from the IRS that someone above linked to. Read schedule F and instructions. In your free time read the tax code.
i agree it does not have to be any set amount of your overall income. a good account or cpa is well worth their fee.
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  #14  
Old 05/26/10, 09:04 PM
 
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A hard learned bit of advice. Keep a log book in every vehicle. AND USE IT. Every time you use the vehicle for a business trip write down the date, starting and ending mileage. I even make a note of what the trip was for, so if needed I can easily verify the trip was business related by having a receipt from the seed dealer, implement dealership, feed store etc. for the same day as my log book entry.

Believe me it's worth the small bit of bother.
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  #15  
Old 05/26/10, 09:59 PM
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We never go anywhere that isn't business related. We have one vehicle, an extended cargo van which is for hauling our deliveries. It runs full and literally every trip is work related. Simple. This may not work for non-hermits.
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  #16  
Old 05/26/10, 10:13 PM
 
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There seems to be a recurring theme to all of the replies to this thread, it is prudent advice: Consult with a compentant AG tax advisor/accountant.

Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnn2501 View Post
Spending a few bucks for a hour or so consultation with a good rural CPA or other tax professional who works with other farmers would be well worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygurl View Post
of course check with your tax adviser
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambler View Post
Think about a good CPA......
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygurl View Post
a good account or cpa is well worth their fee.

Last edited by Lazy J; 05/26/10 at 10:16 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05/26/10, 11:02 PM
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We only plan to actually take in $16,000.00 a year before expenses. That's what we need to meet our budget. Most of our money will be from baked goods I sell through our Farmer's Market. They are marketed through our farm and made here but I don't know if that makes it a whole different thing or not.

Needless to say we won't even be above poverty level. But everything we own is paid for and that will more than meet our needs.

We don't have an accountant or a CPA and I am not sure I can fit another $500 for that into our budget.
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  #18  
Old 05/26/10, 11:06 PM
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Thanks for all the replies!
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  #19  
Old 05/27/10, 12:02 AM
 
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Depending on how many dependents you have you might want to reconsider how much you "plan" on making. If you balance it all out right you can get back a hefty earned income credit and others. The plus side to having a good CPA. Mine made it work out in my favor so I got a lot back and didn't spend a buck except when I tipped him. And he's getting a smoked turkey for Thanksgiving on me.

If you're good at taxes figure out what's a good number for you to make and make it work. For me, head of household, with two kids and no other income it's about 16k. The rest is put into the farm. It's not a bad deal. I happen to like Uncle Sam. I work my arse off and get rewarded.
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  #20  
Old 05/27/10, 07:47 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
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our cpa is very good, I look at this way, I rather pay a cpa out of the refund then pay extra taxes by not having her knowledge to get it in the first place!!!
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