cut down trees and contracts

[AR Transplant]

don't think my other post went through so I will try again.

We are buying 5 ish acres from a lady who is selling part of her land. We walked it together with her and she hand picked what tree she would sell and what we'd buy. We discovered her cousin had been dumping on the property we were buying. We made it clear that it had to be cleaned before closing.
After signing the contract we discovered the cousin had taken a bull dozer and destroyed three trees and made a hole in our tree barrier. We made it clear that we'd not purchase property without the tree barrier.
I feel sorry for the lady but I feel cheated by this. Any ideas on what we can/should do? It probably isn't a deal breaker but clearly we have to address this problem. Thank you so much.
We are just in the process of getting the land surveyed.

[texican]

Looks like you have two choices... buy the land, and plant more trees, or start looking again. Three trees? Are we talking about tiny pulpwood sized pines or old growth black walnut?

Since you required the land to be 'cleaned', you have some responsibility in it's damage... dozers have to have space to get in and move around and do their thing.

The tree issue wouldn't worry me as much as what he did with the garbage??? Bury it (bad) or haul it off (good). Neighbors? Going to be any? Are they psycho killer meth heads? Is the old lady going to die soon and the land get sold off to psycho killer meth heads? Hows the soil? Is there a water source nearby?

You can get fast growing trees to fill in a hole, and in a season or two, the 'screen' would be back up.

Good luck... any land is better than no land...

[AR Transplant]

Very good points.

The trees were 15-20 year old pines. I am afraid we're going to have to do some digging to see if any of it was buried. Thanks for the suggestion.

She is young enough for her to be around for a long time. But her kin are a pretty poor lot. This is one reason dh insisted on the tree line in the first place.

This property is perfect for us, dd and family own land next to it, and the lady sells off 5 acres of her land when she has a need for money. We made it clear that we'd like to buy more and to please keep us in mind.

We don't feel bad as she needs money and if she kept the land for her kin they would sell it off for the money as fast as they could. At least she gets to enjoy some of this money in her latter years.
The land is good pasture land and has at least an acre of blackberry bushes. we will have access to a rural water tap.
There may be a possibility of putting in a small pond, our extension guy is good about advice for that.
As far as security, it is ten times better than the land we live on today. Dh strongly feels the need to get off the beaten path and stay low, this land fits the bill perfectly.
Thanks for the thought provoking comments, tomorrow I am going to go digging in the "dump".

[rambler]

As mentioned I wouldn't worry about 3 trees too terrible much.

ISounds like the lady you are buying from is ok.

I'd worry about the relative thatuses this property for a dump, and then cleans it up with a bulldozer. Dozers do not haul stuff away, they make holes and burry it. I'm thinking nothing got picked up????

And old habbits die hard - if they enjoy dumping on this property, they might not want to stay off of it......

Sounds like you already see them as a distraction in the neighborhood, they would worry me more than the 3 trees.

--->Paul

[lisa's garden]

I'm wondering what kind of garbage they were dumping. Was it just old cans and stuff like that? Or did they have some stuff that might have leaked toxic materials into the soil? People dump some pretty nasty stuff without a second thought and those things could contaminate the water supply.

Good luck and I hope that there is nothing to worry about. Pines trees usually grow pretty quickly, especially white pines. You could pretty much have your privacy back in 5 to 10 years if you start with 2' potted trees and keep them watered.

[lisa's garden]

I'm wondering what kind of garbage they were dumping. Was it just old cans and stuff like that? Or did they have some stuff that might have leaked toxic materials into the soil? People dump some pretty nasty stuff without a second thought and those things could contaminate the water supply.

Good luck and I hope that there is nothing to worry about. Pines trees usually grow pretty quickly, especially white pines. You could pretty much have your privacy back in 5 to 10 years if you start with 2' potted trees and keep them watered.

[HermitJohn]

Yup, as another poster pointed out, bulldozers dont pickup garbage and they dont haul it away, they bury it. Loaders and trucks haul away garbage.

[fordy]

................If this is a problem Now , It'll be an even bigger problem after you become an owner ! You'll be subject too her relatives as long as you live there . Find other property configured too your expectations and be confident in the quality of your decision . , fordy

[thequeensblessing]

I wouldn't worry about the trees over much. If they were a good cash crop tree, such as red oak or black walnut, it might be different. You can always ask the lady to replace those 3 trees, or credit you with that amount toward your price, however, if it isn't part of the contract (those trees specifically, or implied) you may not be able to much beyond asking.
As for the trash dumping, it has to stop when you own the property. If it continues, they could be looking at some very stiff fines and even jail time and I'm make that understood right up front, that you are not against calling in the authorities if needed.
When we bought our 27 acres here, we noticed 2 dump sites on it when we bought it. We discussed it, after really getting in and looking at the trash dumped, and we decided to go ahead and purchase anyway. Both dump sites were cleaned up with the use of a loader and a dumpster, and both areas were turned into lawn/flowers. We still pick up shards of broken glass on occasion, 5 years later, but it is much better now. I would definitely look for signs of burying the garbage (would be easy to see signs of that with no problem) and if you specified it needed to be "cleaned up" and they merely buried it, I'd imagine you'd have some sort of recourse in making them pay for proper cleanup.
We're not sorry we bought our place, even though we payed for all the cleanup ourselves. The price of the property reflected the dump sites and the cost of cleanup was minimal. Now you'd never know they'd been there.

[TnAndy]

Here's another point....if you can still get out of the deal....5 acres ain't NEAR enough "insulation" from that kind of neighbor.

Hate for you to find that out the hard way......

[AR Transplant]

interestingly the stuff dumped was the contents of repo houses. They had a business of cleaning out houses for banks, they dumped all sorts of neat stuff. My dd and dsil salvaged some really interesting things. Old baskets, numerous tools that I didn't even know existed. There was also the old pint size bottle of bug killer that has been illegal for a few decades, but dsil knew about it and didn't find anymore, our city has a program for turning bad chemicals. Actually they went through the stuff pretty carefully and didn't find any spilled chemicals, just the contents of normal peoples homes that couldn't make their payments.

I will call today and complain and see what can be done. This is not a deal breaker because of the location. When it is ours we will plant more trees and try to keep on top of things.

There is a huge dumpster there that is filled up. And we will be building close the the dump area, I am home all the time, this would help.

This property is unmatchable because of my dd's family next door ( they asked us to build next door) and it's other neighbor is a nice family that I would guess to be quiet survivalist mentality. They are super nice but keep to them selves and wouldn't have any problems meeting a stranger at the door with a gun. I like that in a man ( or woman).

[65284]

"We are buying 5 ish acres from a lady who is selling part of her land. We walked it together with her and she hand picked what tree she would sell and what we'd buy."

I must be dense because I don't understand what that means. Are you buying land where she retains ownership of some trees on that land, do you own only certain specific trees you paid for and she owns the rest? I would run away from a deal like that like I was on fire.

[RiverPines]

Originally Posted by 65284

"We are buying 5 ish acres from a lady who is selling part of her land. We walked it together with her and she hand picked what tree she would sell and what we'd buy."

I must be dense because I don't understand what that means. Are you buying land where she retains ownership of some trees on that land, do you own only certain specific trees you paid for and she owns the rest? I would run away from a deal like that like I was on fire.

I'm scratching my head too!
I hope this property will be properly surveyed and property lines clearly recorded in the county records.

I wont touch land thats not official surveyed and recorded, first. I want to see the recorded property lines before I even negotiate.

[AR Transplant]

No, you are not dense at all, I just can't write whats in my head. We are buying all the land with all the trees. She just wants a slanted line that goes around one big tree and another slanted line that goes around her pond. She wants complete access to the pond with a tractor. This would be a deal breaker with most people but because of her unconventional desire to have slanted lines we paid less then the going price for the land. This doesn't bother us because some of the juts and jots butt up against the land that my dd owns. Hopefully, when we are long gone she will get it all anyway. The other juts and jots pretty much follow a natural tree line and a seasonal branch. The dump was in the dry part of the branch and this is where the trees got cut down. We are buying both sides of the branch and want trees to grow thickly on both sides.
Dh complained yesterday about the trees and our realitor is going to discuss it with the Lady. We might push to have her give us other trees to compensate.

The survey guy is coming out Thursday. We are sticklers when it comes to contracts, there is no way I'd do any type of land transaction without all the ducks being in order, way too many things can and would go wrong.

Sorry for my lack of clarity, I hope I did better this time.

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by AR Transplant

No, you are not dense at all, I just can't write whats in my head. We are buying all the land with all the trees. She just wants a slanted line that goes around one big tree and another slanted line that goes around her pond. She wants complete access to the pond with a tractor. This would be a deal breaker with most people but because of her unconventional desire to have slanted lines we paid less then the going price for the land. This doesn't bother us because some of the juts and jots butt up against the land that my dd owns. Hopefully, when we are long gone she will get it all anyway. The other juts and jots pretty much follow a natural tree line and a seasonal branch. The dump was in the dry part of the branch and this is where the trees got cut down. We are buying both sides of the branch and want trees to grow thickly on both sides.
Dh complained yesterday about the trees and our realitor is going to discuss it with the Lady. We might push to have her give us other trees to compensate.

It sounds like you are getting into a huge mess with the juts and jags and full access to the pond.

[AR Transplant]

actually we are not buying the pond, we are buying below and to the side of the pond, she will keep the pond.

I agree this would never work if we didn't have my dd's family next door, that makes is all worth while.

[Old Vet]

Where is the land? In Arkansas all you need to do is call the Arkansas Forestry Commission and tell them about a dump in the woods and hey will come out and take a look at it. if there is anything with their address or a serial number that they can trace back to them they will be made to clean it up and not berry it. I have seen them find a refrigerator and traced it back to other people and have them come out and get it with all the trash their and go to a regular dump with it and bring the receipt for it to them or pay them to clean it up at twice the cost.

[AR Transplant]

old vet, I did not know about that. The land is in Arkansas, but so far we will let

the seller handle the hauling off of the stuff. We plan to go there on Thursday to dig around and see if anything has been buried instead of being hauled off.

Our contract states that the dump has to be cleaned up to our satisfaction.

[Mountainview42]

I thoroughly understand the "Draw" that (rare, but sometimes...) close family could have to make one somewhat blind to an obvious "Potentially Very Bad" situation.
Not if, but since, you have pretty much determined to pretend the bad neighbor element does not exist, you should....IMHO:
Thoroughly discuss with your "People", your lawyer, the local sheriff, etc..
A course of action to deter any future...."Dealings" with the inbred neighbor types.

As others have said repeatadly in other posts, on other topics (and check your history books, this is a recuring human theme)...
Some people are good, and honest, and... well, make for good neighbors.
And some are defective in some part of their decision making process, that makes them unfit as neighbors.

Stay away from these types...especially when they are so helpful as to make their "Type" known upfront.

Or be prepared for (potential) conflict.

And not to detract from what I just said, but if you just have to have this land, think ahead and try and plan on how to best minimize the potential headache (yours) from "Not good" neighbors.

Like any good cop (what an oxymoron) to catch a crook, you need to be able to think like one.
That said think about the kind of person who would run their bulldozer onto land they don't own, knocking down trees, to bury trash they illegally dumped, to avoid hauling it away.
This story has all the makings for a great country song, all that is missing is trying to work in losing your favorite coon dog and wrecking your old truck...

Now ponder if you will what else they might "Deem" acceptable in the future, and re-think how bad you need this property.
And go take a few aspirin after only a few min of "Thinking like you new neighbors" as it should give you a headache just trying to fathom what they are capable of dishing out to you in the future.

I really do not want to be wet blanket, but like others have said, this situation has trouble written all over it.

Like Elmer Fudd says: Be careful, be werry werry careful.

Of course most people don't really want to hear some things, they just want a pat on the head and hear that all is going to be peachy keen.

Do yourselves a great big solid, find some people that you trust, and that have really good "Common Sense", and have no interest one way or the other in this decision.

Lay everything out to them and then shut up and listen to what they think, then decide what you want to do.
Good luck.

[Old Vet]

Keep the Forestry Commission in your area in mind if anything shoes up on your property now or in the future. They have people that do nothing but investigate dumps and tree theft. They have 5 when I retired from their.