septic tank/field question

Ifistav · #1 05/12/10, 01:35 PM

Hi everyone, let me start this by saying that I have no clue about septic tanks/fields. My hubby and I are city people, where we don't have septic tanks, everything is taken care by the city. However, we're looking to move to the country, not necessarily become homesteaders, especially in the beginning, but maybe hobby farmers.
So since we have no clue about septic tanks, here's my question: We saw a property in PA that we liked, 3 acres, which has an easement for the neighbors. They have their septic tank in "our" property and the easement says we can't plant, have any animals on it, other than cats and dogs, or build anything on top of it. Do any of you know why there's the mention of animals in the easement? Does that mean that we can't have animals in OUR septic tank area? What could be the reason? Do you allow animals in your septic tank area? What about vegetables? Is it unhealthy to grow veggies in the septic fields? Please don't laugh, like I said, we have NO clue

I thank you in advance,

Ifi

Stush · #2 05/12/10, 01:50 PM

I am guessing that they don't want livestock compacting the ground over the leech field.

A TYPICAL septic system (if there is any such thing) consists of a septic tank, and a leech field. The tank is a settling tank that lets solids drop out. The leech field is perforated pipe that receives the overflow water from the septic tank and allows it to leech slowly into the ground. There are probably at least a dozen variations on this same theme, but that is the basic idea.

FWIW, I would NOT want someone else's septic system on my property. I don't like easements of any kind. 3 acres is a relatively small piece of property. Once you take out the area covered by your house, driveway, any outbuildings, etc, and then add on what is left useless by this easement, how much usable land do you have left?

chickenslayer · #3 05/12/10, 01:53 PM

First off does the easement address what actions the neighbor has to take in case of breakouts? Do they have to repair the field or can they just ignore it because the outflows will be on your property? If it fails all together are they allowed to erect a sand mound somewhere else on your property? And no you do not want to grow anything you are going to eat in a septic field or have animals grazing there due to the possibility of sewage flowing to the surface and the animals getting contaminated. I would avoid the property because there are too many bad things that can happen to your property such as the neighbor flushing toxic chemicals and such that will leech into your ground.

Stush · #4 05/12/10, 01:53 PM

I probably wouldn't grow veggies directly on top of my leech field. Maybe a raised bed garden in that area, but I wouldn't want to be tilling the ground over it up.

As with the idea of keeping the animals off of it, you do not want to compact the soil in the leech field. Doing so will prevent the effluent from the septic tank from effectively percolating through the soil.

meanwhile · #5 05/12/10, 01:58 PM

Hello - no one will laugh! You have good questions and one way to learn is to ask lots of questions. I have asked so many crazy questions on there and always get good replies!

I don't know the answers to all of your questions but I will say WOW - that would be awful to have neighbors septic on your property. I foresee all sorts of future problems even not counting the animal issue. I would keep looking for another property - but thats just me.

The reason one would not want to have animals on top of the septic tank or field is that is could damage the drainage and of course you need great drainage. Also, if the tank is set high in the ground, like one of mine is at a Cabin, then animals such as cows or horses could fall in or crush the thing! You would not want plants on the tank top nor in the drain field for the same reason.....it could damage the drainage .....but there are some plants that would help....but it sounds like the easement is trying to keep all activity out of that area.......practically you will not have use of your own property in that area......again, I would pass that land and keep looking....

As for growing vegetables in or on top of a septic line, I would not do it (and I don't) but I do know people do have the septic drain line going through their vegetable garden and like it just fine and have never gotten sick from it. One of my drain lines (we have Cabins with various lines) does run under some fruit trees but it does not "seep". We have another drain field that does "seep" (meaning the moisture sometimes makes the ground damp or even sponge like on top of the ground where you can see it, walk in it, etc. = potential nasty).....and so we put a whole pile of wood chips on top of that area, then ground over which took care of the problem.....but we also turned it into a wild flower area where no one walks....which protects the drain area from further damage .....which brings us back to why they would not want animals on the drain line.......

Good luck! Keep looking!

**Cabin Fever** · #6 05/12/10, 02:02 PM

The concern with housing animals over a drainfield is the damage they can cause to the soil. Continuous animal traffic and animal manure, especially combined with moist soil conditions, can result in severe soil compaction and soil sealing. If the soil becomes sealed, air cannot infiltrate through the soil to the underlying drainfield bed or trench system. The drainfield needs oxygen to function properly.

Some drainfields can be rather shallow. Plants with deep rooting characteristics can lead to clogging the drainfield. Also, there is some possibility that root crops may be contaminated by pathogens. Lastly, many drainfield systems have difficultly “getting rid” of the wastewater discharged to them. The last thing these drainfield soils need is having to deal with additional water from someone watering his or her garden.

wy_white_wolf · #7 05/12/10, 02:09 PM

Nothing to add, but welcome to the forums.

Now, let's get to work on that "not necessarily become homesteaders" problem.

WWW

Ifistav · #8 05/12/10, 02:43 PM

Thank you all for your prompt replies! I think we'll have to let go of this property, for the reasons stated above. The property has actually 2 houses in it (one would be for my mom to live in), so there's actually 3 septic tanks in it. We'd end having fences everywhere for the animals not to cross, lol.

WWW, like I said, we're city people, and this is a big step we're taking, and at this point, I don't know where to begin. We'll start with veggies for sure, and then we can move on

My hubby recently learned to make his own cheese, so down the road we may get a family cow or two to keep him busy, haha. So maybe we are small scale homesteaders already?!?!? I don't think so, far from it, I depend too much on BJs and Costco, hahaha.

Ifi

Ken Scharabok · #9 05/12/10, 04:58 PM

Three acres isn't going to be enough for two houses, three septic fields and a cow. Think one or two dairy goats instead.

Peace n Quiet · #10 05/12/10, 06:58 PM

So, you have three septics and two houses on three acres? Any bodies of water; a stream or well? Does the property have any other easements; a power line either above or below ground? Is the land outline an irregular shape or is it square? Does your deed require you to maintain and or replace the neighbor's septic (should it fail)?

I ask because you need to think about what would happen down the road if one of those septics should fail... While three acres is a nice amount of land, it may not be suitable for putting in another septic should the need arise. You have to think about setbacks and such. You also would want to know whether the soil is good for a conventional system.

Here on my 7 acres, my soil is lousy! I pray that our system holds up forever, because if the day comes that it fails and I have to replace it, I don't think there is any spot here where it would pass for a conventional system. We would be looking at building a system that costs $$$$$!! I wish I had known about this stuff when we bought our home 13 years ago. I would have asked the seller to have the land tested for an alternative site. When it didn't pass, I would have re-negotiated the price. Sigh... hindsight.

ronbre · #11 05/13/10, 07:42 AM

i have a septic system that is raised 4' above grade with a gradual slope from the system to the grade, leaving a really nice fertile soil on the sides of the raised area.

i have a lovelly round cirlce lawn on top of the septic area with perennial gardens sloping off on the sloping grade all the way around my septic..i have small dwarf fruit trees as well as shallow rooted shrubs like lilacs and honeysuckles on the sides, with lawn paths going off on each side in the front and one in the rear and steps down off a small deck on the far rear.

actually we have wild animals on our rear system area all the time, deer, bear, coon, possum, etc..and we have 2 cats.

i would say that what they are concerned about are things like pigs rooting into the system and also things like willow roots going into the pipes and clogging them up

fantasymaker · #12 05/13/10, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peace n Quiet

! I pray that our system holds up forever, because if the day comes that it fails and I have to replace it, I don't think there is any spot here where it would pass for a conventional system. We would be looking at building a system that costs $$$$$!! I wish I had known about this stuff when we bought our home 13 years ago. I would have asked the seller to have the land tested for an alternative site. When it didn't pass, I would have re-negotiated the price. Sigh... hindsight.

Why not build a addition to your system now.....sorta under the radar. Then you could turn a valve when ya need to.

Ifistav · #13 05/13/10, 09:58 AM

Peace, those are great questions that I'll have in mind for the next property we put our eye on. We let this one go, I think you're all right about having an easement. Even though the neighbors would be responsible if anything happened, I can see how someone elses crap can give me problems, haha.

Wis Bang 2 · #14 05/13/10, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifistav

Peace, those are great questions that I'll have in mind for the next property we put our eye on. We let this one go, I think you're all right about having an easement. Even though the neighbors would be responsible if anything happened, I can see how someone elses crap can give me problems, haha.

Good Call! My mom sold her property last fall. The buyer's inspector found her drain field wasn't working well. That system had three drainlines laid in individual trenches around 6 feet deep.

The replacement field was a 20 x 50 foot bed of gravel a little over two feet deep w/ two drainlines equally spaced. The site had to be lower to have pitch from the new tank which was placed 90 degrees off the old one. Such a shallow field would attract plant roots and be subject to compaction from grazing animals...

rambler · #15 05/13/10, 01:08 PM

In my part of MN, they want the drainfields no deeper than a foot, to keep away from groundwater. So 'here', we have very shallow fields that can be easily harmed by compation or any rooting plant.

--->Paul

Ken Scharabok · #16 05/13/10, 05:53 PM

Get a plat of the property whichs shows the easement. Should be avaiable in your county courthouse assessor office. Perhaps make an offer of purchase of the property LESS the easement. That is, the current owner keeps it or the neighbor's buys it separately from them.

I have a couple of easment on my farm. Several are for the neighbor on the other side of the road to tie into the electrical line on my side of the road. Another is a logging load. Since I now own the properties on both sides that became a moot issue. I have three or four old family cemeteries. I know roughly where they are, but no evidence I can find today exists (e.g., headstones).