Are you ready for 15 to 20% Ethanol and fuel System damage ?

[fordy]

.................It is just a matter of time before the EPA forces refiners too add 15 to 20 % Ethanol too our gasoline ! Fuel system problems as well as catalytic converter damage is the obvious outcome especially for older vehicles ! I tried too present this in a non political format because it effects almost everyone who drives any gas powered vehicle older than a 2002 or so model year car or light truck . , fordy

[Tarheel]

Yep, a lot of problems already with E10 in the marine industry with moisture. We use additives and change fuel filters regular and keep extra's on the boats. We have been using additives for all other small engines for the last several years with no problems so far. We store several gallons of fuel (with additives) and so far so good, but with the extra ethanol coming I don't know!

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

We use Sentry Fuel additive to all of our gasoline and their diesel additive for the diesel.

[Freeholder]

I drive a '97 Ford pickup -- what can I do, if anything, to prevent damage? I want to make this pickup last as long as possible!

Kathleen

[fordy]

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

I drive a '97 Ford pickup -- what can I do, if anything, to prevent damage? I want to make this pickup last as long as possible!

Kathleen

.................They sell additives that are supposed too help but I'm really not familiar with them , yet ! Texas has a 10% blend that is supposed too be the max but we'l see what happens . , fordy

[upnorthlady]

I'm sure there will always be someplace to buy "regular" gasoline for antique cars, and chainsaws, lawn mowers, etc. All those folks who put big money into restoring their '55 oldsmobiles or '38 pontiacs and take them to parades and car shows are not going to be without gasoline for it.

[Stephen in SOKY]

The only place I can get real gasoline now is at the airport. All others are 5% ethanol. If we go to 10% I suspect I'll at least get my saw and other 2 stroke gas there.

[foxtrapper]

OK, lets add a little bit of factual information to the hyperbole.

This is not a forcing of higher ethanol content, it is an allowance for higher content. Current regulations limit the ethanol content. EPA is seeking comments and input on the notion of racing this limit.

This is not driven by EPA, it is driven by lobbying groups and corn producing states. They have lobbied and rallied and pushed for the allowance of higher than 10% ethanol. EPA is responding to that pressure.

[fordy]

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

OK, lets add a little bit of factual information to the hyperbole.

This is not a forcing of higher ethanol content, it is an allowance for higher content. Current regulations limit the ethanol content. EPA is seeking comments and input on the notion of racing this limit.

This is not driven by EPA, it is driven by lobbying groups and corn producing states. They have lobbied and rallied and pushed for the allowance of higher than 10% ethanol. EPA is responding to that pressure.

...................All true , But , the EPA isn't going too formally adopt a Higher % of Ethanol lest the the white house is on board ! , fordy

[Phillip]

There go's my Weed-Eater...

[Danaus29]

"I'm sure there will always be someplace to buy "regular" gasoline for antique cars, and chainsaws, lawn mowers, etc. All those folks who put big money into restoring their '55 oldsmobiles or '38 pontiacs and take them to parades and car shows are not going to be without gasoline for it."

Sorry but the same thing was said when they started taking the lead out of fuel. Now removing lead was for the public health benefit. Ethanol is just a political ploy. There is no proof it reduces emissions, and studies have been done that prove it gets less mpg than non-ethanol gasoline. The govt stopped caring about the public good long ago. It will bow to whoever can line their pockets the best. Right now the auto industry and many ag industries are pushing for higher ethanol content in gasoline. The auto industry because they can sell more cars and the ag industry because they can sell more corn.

Jegs currently sells an ethanol conversion kit for several automobiles. The octane rating of ethanol is higher which makes it a better choice for older vehicles which need the higher octane. We are considering converting the '69 Ford motor so it can run on ethanol.

[PonderosaQ]

Just bought a roto tiller the other day and was specifically warned about this.

[FL.Boy]

I run ever thing with the e10 and no problems the trucks gets the same mpg with it or out. The e10 has been in gas for a long time. The same with no lead i have yet to see it hurt a older car. The new diesel was going to mess up ever thing and i have yet to see that.

[Patt]

Hopefully somebody can point me towards a site that explains all this since I know nothing about why ethanol is bad for some things. We have an '88 Dodge truck and various chainsaws, weedeaters etc. What do we need to do for them?

[wwubben]

Both of my vehicles are 1994 models.I have been using a 10 percent blrnd in them for years with no trouble.A lot of this ethanol fear is just that---no facts.I do not use it in my small engines but I don't know if it would hurt them.

[foxtrapper]

Patt,

Ethanol is a solvent. Certainly gasoline is a solvent as well. But alcohol is a different solvent, so it dissolves different things.

For boaters, the problem has been with fiberglass fuel tanks. Admittedly rare, but they do exist. And ethanol is a solvent for the resin they are made with. Ethanol in the gasoline dissolves the fuel tank itself, with some obvious problems.

For old cars and such, the problem is usually the dissolving of old sludge and varnish in the fuel tank. This promptly plugs up the fuel filter. Not a problem with vehicles that were driven regularly or stored inside, but definitely a problem with vehicles that were very infrequently driven and have nicely varnished fuel tanks.

Ethanol also absorbs water. Again, not a problem in vehicles and equipment that goes through its fuel. But a very real problem for equipment that sits. Things like snowblowers. They will often times be filled with a semi-jelly like gasoline mixture, and have a good bit of rust inside the carburetor from all the water the ethanol pulled out of the air.

Lastly is the dissolving of fuel lines. Some old rubber fuel lines and fuel pump parts dissolve in ethanol. This was the first claim of impending horror when ethanol was proposed, but it's proven to be mostly hype, with little substance. No doubt somewhere someone has actually had a fuel line dissolve from the ethanol. But honestly, I've not seen it myself.

P.S.
Two cycle engines. Forgot to mention them, and they deserve their own special mention. Many two cycle engines have marginal lubrication. It's inherent with their design, and made worse today with the tighter emission standards. They run just barely enough oil and gasoline to lubricate the engine for few hours. For remember, we're talking weed wackers, chain saws, little dirt bikes and such here. Equipment that really doesn't get run for that many hours throughout its life. The ethanol content in the fuel reduces the lubrication properties, leading to shorter engine line. It's not instant death, but it does cut the lifespan. Though honestly, most of the equipment dies from other causes before the engine life would be an issue.

[Wayne02]

Originally Posted by PonderosaQ

Just bought a roto tiller the other day and was specifically warned about this.

What did they tell you do about it, just put additives in it if you can't find the correct fuel?

This whole ethanol deal is real frustration and worry. One of my older chainsaws had severe problems with the seals rotting away, don't know if that was ethanol related specifically, but some of the old farmers around here claim it was.

With the price of quality small engined equipment being so high, protecting that engine takes on an added importance because replacing these things can get expensive quick.

[Wolf mom]

Another bunch of carp being foisted upon consumers in "our best interest"

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

Cost to produce 1 gallon of ethanol: $1.74
Environmental damages: add another 23 cents
Cost of damage to engines: unknown

Cost to produce 1 gal of gasoline: 95 cents

and that's just one article.

Arizona has been fighting this for years - it started with just adding ethanol to gasoline during the summer months with a caveat that engines might run rougher and get less mpg, but that it was better for the environment - now we have it in our gas all year round....sigh

[Danaus29]

Well, I sure would like to know what keeps melting my stupid plastic intakes that Ford started using just before ethanol became popular.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_...ecautions.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/
http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_problems_damage.html
http://askville.amazon.com/ethanol-d...uestId=5237993
http://www.mye85kit.com/index-8.html
http://amlibpub.blogspot.com/2006/09...ol-damage.html
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/07...ld-damage-eng/
http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_e...recaution.html


There is a lot of conflicting info. Some groups say it will cause damage, some (mostly the pro-ethanol groups) claim it doesn't cause damage. Most admit it causes a significant loss of mpg, while a few claim no loss of mpg. All anyone can do is go by experience. I know it has caused as loss of mpg in our vehicles and we have had intake and seal problems since using ethanol added fuel.

[Patt]

Thanks for the info! Why do you varnish a fuel tank?