What size should a pond be?

[SueMc]

I know there probably be as many opinions as responders, but I do need some opinions. We are hiring a well recommended pond builder to construct a farm pond for us. It will be in view of our future house and I mainly want a pond for the beauty of it as well as the wildlife it will attract. If a future well is able to handle an open geothermal system, the pond will also be the "dumping" site for the water from the house.
My question is, what size ponds do you have, in partial acres or acres? Are you happy with the size? This is going to be an expensive venture even though a small ravine is going to be utilized so I want to be very happy with it when we're done. I don't want to wish later that I'd spent the money for something bigger. The builder is fond of natural looking ponds but will dig one out of flat ground (lots of earth to move=lots more money) if you insist. What he measured out may be around a third of an acre and that seems small to me.
Thanks for all advice!

[Belfrybat]

I had a pond (called stock tanks around here) dug on my last place. The size depended on the amount of watershed, and the Ag Conservation office recommended a 1/4 acre tank for my situation, even though I could easily have an acre and look good in the location. It would fill with a 3-4" rain, but was small enough that it would go dry in our long hot summers. If you have good watershed or if its fed by a stream, then I'd advise going larger. Of course, you also want to look at the impact on your property overall -- going too large and it might never fill. Also, what "look" do you want? You mentioned looking as natural as possible and using a ravine as part of it. That also would limit it's size. A third to half an acre, once full will look larger than you think. Oh dear, I'm really not being very helpful, am I? Hopefully someone else will come along with more expertise than I have.

[Chuck R.]

We’ve got 9 acres, and it is a handful at times. Lilly Pads, cattails, muskrats and beavers must be kept in check on our place. Ours is both spring and watershed fed, so there’s no problem keeping it filled. As a matter of fact our's goes over the spillway a couple of times a year in the spring.

As Belfrybat said, it depends on what you watershed/water source can keep supplied, it also depends on your desired purpose. While our big pond is a PITA at times, we can have multiple families out fishing and not crowd each other. We’re looking to have another smaller pond dog now primarily to correct a runoff issue and provide a smaller pond for dog training. For this one we’re looking at 3/4s of an acre, which is about the largest we can pull off based on the runoff amount.

I agree with the idea of consulting with a couple builders, around here at least it’s about $125 an hour to have pond work done and we were given an estimate of $2000 to make the small pond. I'd paln on about a 15-20% over-run just in case he uncovers something once he starts digging. A good builder can probably stake out what he thinks you can do and it will give you an idea of what it will look like. You could also GPS in the points and use google earth to get an overhead view of what it will look like.

Chuck

[coup]

i have about 1/3 acre,8feet deep,,it has a 3foot grass carp and sveral nice bass,biggest is 18inchs,it was made years ago after a drought....

i would go as big as i could afford. in wv the soil conservation will pay like 60% if they approve of plan,,,i think.........

[ninny]

I'd go smaller surface area and deeper to minimize evaporation. Large and shallow will go dry in drought conditions and then you'll have an ugly hole to look at until it rains again.

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[MN Gardener]

Talk to the pond builder and ask them if you can get some names of people in the area who have had ponds dug. See if you can visit their pond to get an idea of size and the pros and cons of their pond. Around here there are all kinds of restrictions on pond size, location, depth, etc so make sure you deal with the zoning office and possible the dnr or conservation office to keep yourself out of trouble.

[Jalopy]

Also consider the depth if you would like to keep fish. As it needs to be deep enough so it does not get too hot in the summer and cause oxygen shortages for the fish and also deep enough that in the winter the fish can have oxygen and be warm enough to keep from freezing.
We have considered one but the NRCS wants it 2.5-3 acres because the watershed above it is 120 acres. That would be okay but they only will grant half the money and our half would still be $15000 and I am not that interested to spend that amount of money.

[ronbre]

mine is about 75 to 90 feet wide by about 150 feet long..and has shallow and deep areas..the shallow areas fill up with cattails..don't care for that..we may dig some of them out deeper..gotta have 5' deep if you will be overwintering any fish...at least in Michigan where we have ice.

i like my pond the size it is but son wants to make it a lot bigger someday

[fishhead]

Lots of good ideas have already been offered.

What's your budget?

How are you going to fill it? Well? Runoff? Runoff will determine how big and deep your pond can be. Your SWCD should be able to give you some runoff numbers based on your soil, watershed size and vegetation type.

I think you said that you were going to block a ravine. That should give you the most pond per dollar compared to excavating and moving the dirt unless you have a use for it elsewhere.

I overwinter fish in my 3-4' deep commercial ponds even with our -30 F winter lows so it can be done if you have electric nearby.

[Old John]

We think it wa built about 40 years ago. It's a bit over an acre when it is full. And, we think about 12' deep at the deep end. It goes down to about 2/3rd that size in dry Summers and probably about 7 to 8' depth. It was here when we bought the place 7 years ago. It seems like a good size to have.

It is totally surrounded by trees, on the dam as well. Many are river birches.
We don't get ducks much because there's no open flyway into it.
Our 13 acres is nearly all hillside, but not just real steep. The pond was built into a hillside. It has a lot of run off from the hills above, when we get heavy rains. Right now it needs some work because of the 10" rain we had last year that washed out part of the overflow.
We have bass and some oversized bream, big as a dinner plate in it. There are also some turtles and a bunch of snakes.
It's a nice peacefull pond, with a couple of old benches, out there. A nice quiet place to sit & think, or just sit.
I love it.

[KMA1]

There are a lot of factors to consider when determining the appropriate size for a pond. If you have a very specific location, the size needs to be related to the watershed and the exact place you want it. Too small and the drainage from the watershed will overflow the spillway often (not a good thing for earthen dams and spillways). To large and the pond will not fill up and stay at a relatively constant water level. In general, if you want fish, you need to go at least 8 feet deep, but deeper is better. You really want to have at least 4 feet of water within a foot or 2 of the edge to control unwanted vegetation. It is also a good idea to make a sediment basin that can be cleaned out regulary as needed with a backhoe or trackhoe on any drainage just above the pond to keep sediment from filling in your pond. This is very important for some soil types and if you have any disturbance of natural vegetation in the watershed.

[pheasantplucker]

I don't have a pond but have considered one. I've done a little research on the subject. You should try to find the optimal balance between cost and maintenance ability. Generally smaller ponds will cost you more per cubic foot than larger ponds. Keep in mind, too that, as some folks have already mentioned, fish require a minimum of 6-8 feet for overwintering purposes. I would build a pond as large as my budget and topography would allow. Just like aquariums, things can go wrong a lot more quickly in a small pond, whereas a larger pond allows a bit more room for error in the event of a problem. I would try to make the contour of the bottom such that it could provide structure for fish. You might want to consult a hatchery to see the proper balance for species. Someone mentioned that the state might provide some financial assistance. Look into this, but keep in mind, in some states (Ohio for instance) some state funding requires one to make the pond available to the public for a period of time. I'd rather not have to deal with that. I've also checked into liability in the event someone might get hurt or drown in your pond. Ohio is pretty good in the protection of pond owners, but I'm certain it varies from state to state. My neighbor is planning on building a pond about 200 yards from my cabin. I'll stay on good terms with him and maybe fish from his...or skate...or swim...Good luck and post pics when you get-r-done.

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by Old John

It is totally surrounded by trees, on the dam as well. Many are river birches.

Tree roots in the dam cause a lot of dam failures each year. The roots seek the water and then the water follows the tree root back to the outside of the dam. Over time the water erodes a channel until it begins to flow.

That's why it's not recommended to allow trees on dikes.

[SueMc]

Sorry I haven't been back here to say thank you very much for all of your input! We're still discussing dimensions with the builder. He did say the pond will be about 15 feet deep, no shallow areas. The dam will be wide enough to mow it with a riding mower or smallish tractor. We had an Ag engineer out and he pretty much picked the same area and size before we had the builder look at it. They all seem to know what they're talking about. The engineer knows how many acres are involved in the runoff. We're in flat IL but the property is surprisingly rolling for this area and that is also part of the decision making. The pond location will also take care of a couple of drainage, erosion problem areas.
I just have a hard time visualizing the final results. I figured that I could just say I want a 2-3 acre pond and hire someone to start digging. Well for $30,000++, they will but the builder said it wouldn't look natural. I should really be impressed that he's not trying to take all of my money for a great big hole that may not look right. He said the same thing that Belfrybat said.....the finished pond is going to look alot different (bigger) than a flagged perimeter in the grass.
Anyway, thanks again! I really appreciate all of your help!

[jbos333]

I have a 5 acre, 1 acre and a 1/4 acre pond all connected... spring water feeds the 1 acre which overflows into the 1/4 acre and then into the 5 acre. I don't think I'd go bigger than 5 ac. personally. The only thing I have against the ponds is the constant line of beavers that come and chew my trees down!

[Mike in Ohio]

We have two. One is an acre and the other is an acre and a half. Both are fed from springs/creeks and are 20 foot deep (mostly).

Based on our experience I have a couple recommendations.

The first is to use (I'm not sure what the correct term is) outflow pipes for normal outflow rather than having it normally flow over a spillway. Our front one does it this way and it works great. The back one only has a spillway and we have had some erosion problems over the years. I have 2 24 inch diameter pipes that I am going to install in the back one.

The second is (depending on the size of your pond) that if you want a dock, put the pilings in BEFORE you fill the pond. It makes life much easier. We are putting in a dock in the front pond and setting the pilings is not fun when you are trying to do it through water.

Mike

[texican]

I'd say build it as big as you possibly can. Don't think about your current needs only, but also possible future needs. I built a small pond, and found it was too small. Built a larger one, and wasn't happy, as it lost too much water in the long hot dry spells of summer. Finally built the pond I always wanted. It'll never go dry (Unless we have close to a decade of drought).

Budget is one thing to be concerned about... however, it's more costly to try and come back and redo things later.

I have no problem with outflow pipes... as long as they're large enough to control the worst possible rainstorms... I had a 20' wide spillway on my 8 acre pond, and got very very nervous during a monster flood... I was out there in a deluge frantically digging it deeper by hand, trying to save the dam (water got 8" from the top, and if it'd went over, it'd would have washed away the 40' tall dam in no time)... as soon as it dried up, I built an auxiliary spillway on the other end of the dam, on solid ground, two inches higher than the present spillway.

During this same flood event, the lake development adjoining my property had all of their piers and boathouses under 3' of water... all they had was a 4' overflow pipe to let water escape... their spillway was surveyed out wrong (too high) and couldn't let water escape properly... hundreds of thousands in damages (some of these boat houses run 200K and up)

[fishhead]

Yes. A carefully designed spillway is a must for a pond with a watershed like the one you are planning. It may never get used but it will save your dike if it's ever needed.

Spillways are designed to allow water to flow over the top in a controlled manner. The water flows over spread out so it's only a few inches deep and the force is spread out so that it doesn't erode the dike.

[Farmerwilly2]

It should be 183 feet wide, 280 feet long, 10 feet deep. It should have fish in it. No ducks.