Insurance issues (horse) ... definitely a rant

SFM in KY · #1 04/26/10, 10:14 AM

.... and worse because it is partly my own fault!

Basics: I've carried insurance on various horses off and on since 1991 and always worked through AgriRisk. Never a problem, even with a claim. I leased a pony stallion for 6 years, kept him insured through them. Renewed the insurance, he went back this month. Two months coverage.

I did mention to the agent at the time I renewed that he was only going to be here a matter of months and would be going back but that I would plan on transferring the insurance to one of the other stallions and/or request it be cancelled and the balance refunded. The agent did NOT tell me that could not be done, though it was also my error because I did not specifically ask if that could be done.

When I called to make the arrangements, I was told since the premium was for the "minimum" ($200) there was no refund. I was also told the policy can not be transferred to another horse.

I note that they have (recently) been purchased by the Markel Insurance company. I presume this means they are no longer "independent agents" which may be part of the problem. Working with an independent agent, the agent is theoretically working for the person getting the insurance ... they are supposed to find the "best deal" through the various insurance companies they use. As a part of Markel they are now on the "other side of the fence" so to speak, working for the company that owns them.

Irritates me that it is partly my fault for not specifically covering this, though I did mention it when discussing this with the agent. Even more angry that someone I trusted to look out for my best interests did not.

Nothing to be done at the point, of course ... though I will probably post on a couple of horse boards/ lists asking for independent agents people recommend.

#2 04/26/10, 01:45 PM

People can be in for some nasty surprises when depending on what an agent tells them . If it's not written in black & white in the policy the agents words are worthless & believe me they don't always tell you the whole truth & nothing but the truth . A home I own had a masonry chimney & was insured for a wood stove . I wanted to replace the masonry chimney with a ss one so I called my agent & discussed it with him . He said that as long as the ss chimney was ul approved it would be ok & he would make a note of it in my policy . I now rent out that home & a renter wanted to use the wood stove . I called my agent to check if my policy would cover a renter using the wood stove & found that my policy still had a masonry chimney listed with no mention of the ss chimney being installed & approved . If that home had burned do you think the insurance would have paid ?

Helena · #3 04/26/10, 02:45 PM

We have our home/farm policy with Nationwide Insurance. It covers not just the house but the little barn we have and a couple out buildings and what is inside them but mostly important is that it insures the animals inside in case of death to fire in the building or natual disasters and also...if the horses or goats or whatever should get out and onto the road any damages caused by my animals to cars or people. And if a child or adult should get hurt while visting my little homestead too. Check into a "regular" insurance company and ask about their home/farm insurance. We certainly do not have a farm but a small homestead..cost. Around $100 a month. OR..was this an insurance on the life of the horse you had..perhaps I misunderstood. ??

SFM in KY · #4 04/26/10, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helena

OR..was this an insurance on the life of the horse you had..perhaps I misunderstood. ??

Yes. I don't insure "all" of the horses ... just specific ones and in this case one I was leasing but didn't own. In most cases, I have insured the ones I buy "outside" and don't feel I could afford to replace. The Oldenburg stallion was insured for several years, a couple of others I bought, two I raised ... and in some cases they are insured for both mortality/accidental death, etc. and medical ... costs of vet care if they get sick.

haypoint · #5 04/26/10, 03:56 PM

On most insurance plans, the insurance companies plan on paying out ten cent on every dollar they take in.
When you have a million dollar liability policy, that does not mean the insurance company is willing to pay off a million bucks. More often it just means they will spend up to a million to prevent a judgement against you.
After 30 years of homeowners insurance without a claim, on a house that has never had an insurance claim in its 70 years, I was told that my policy was going to be dropped. The house has a wood fired hot water furnace and no secondary heat source. I would have to buy another furnace and put a propane tank in the back yard or screw electric baseboards into the original varnished oak baseboards. I switched companies and put up with the higher premiums.

I planned to do horse drawn sleigh rides during the winter on weekends. The only policy I could get was $2000 for 12 months. I only needed a few weekends, but they'd only sell by the year.

Who is building all the skyscrapers in all the major cities? That's right, insurance companies, with your money.

TedH71 · #6 04/26/10, 06:04 PM

Didn't know you could insure horses. What for? Also are cattle insured?

SFM in KY · #7 04/26/10, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedH71

Didn't know you could insure horses. What for? Also are cattle insured?

You can insure horses for a wide variety of things. The most common is simple mortality, if the horse dies as the result of accident or incurable disease the insurance company pays you the value of the horse/ amount of insurance coverage. You may have to document the value you wish to insure the horse for, it has to be "reasonable" ... based on bloodlines, potential, income produced or potential income, etc. Major medical ... coverage for intensive/long term vet care ... is getting more common as well. Not the basic, general health care, but things like colic surgery, serious injury requiring long term care, etc., usually fairly high deductible and like with human health care insurance, some pre-existing conditions can not be covered. Performance horses can be insured for "loss of use" ... I've heard of that kind of coverage for high $$ stallions as well, loss of fertility ... some things are, of course, more expensive than others.

I don't know about cattle ... I've never known anyone personally that had any purebred, high $$ show cattle. I would assume some of the high producing bulls that are in high demand with frozen semen might be insured.

I do know that you can insure high $ show dogs and I think you can get health/major medical for them as well. This is something that has happened since I stopped breeding and showing dogs in the late 80s.

Chixarecute · #8 04/26/10, 09:34 PM

When MIL's pole barn/machine shed roof caved in due to snow load, the ins. co refused to cover it, as collapse due to snow was not one of the things listed in the policy. Guess what was? Damage due to nuclear bomb. Wonder who'd be around to collect on that?

DH says in all fairness, I ought to mention same insurance co. did a wonderful job when the roof of our pole barn was peeled off in a freak wind downburst, and at the same time an old barn on the property fell onto one of our kicker wagons. The roof got fixed, and we were able to replace the barn with a new pole building. We were also compensated for the damage on the kicker wagon, which DH was able to straighten out fairly well.

beccachow · #9 04/26/10, 09:39 PM

Matter of fact, they have Vet Insurance for dogs and cats too, now. Just like Medical Insurance for humans. After what I just went through financially for the GSD, I wish I had done it (not that I begrudge a cent paid, you know?).

Sorry you are losing out on money

. I actually think it WAS the agent's fault, why didn't he tell you, "Gosh, you would have to buy another policy" or something.

wr · #10 04/26/10, 09:51 PM

I've insured cattle before. I live in an area where lightning strikes are quite common so when I had cattle, everything had basic coverage and had to pay extra for lightning insurance and transportation.

LisaInN.Idaho · #11 04/26/10, 10:28 PM

I recently requested a quote from Equisure. Saw them on the USEF website. Have you heard anything about them?

geo in mi · #12 04/27/10, 07:53 AM

Sounds like you have to read the fine print in your policy for "that's a horse of a different color" clause.......
geo

SFM in KY · #13 04/27/10, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo in mi

Sounds like you have to read the fine print in your policy for "that's a horse of a different color" clause.......
geo

Yes. I'd gotten careless/lazy because for so many years I worked with independent agents who were doing the "fine print reading" for me and I didn't pick up on the fact things had changed.

I was used to the agent basically "working for me" ... rather than the sales staff working for the insurance company. My mistake ... and I paid for it!

I've gotten several recommendations ... here, a couple of horse lists/boards ... and will talk to several before I do this again. I really hate having to make these changes as I'd worked with this agency for so long ... and had one claim, which is where you REALLY find out how good the agent is and how good the insurance coverage is.

offthegrid · #14 04/27/10, 08:10 AM

I insure with Great American through Blue Bridle http://www.bluebridle.com/

However, from what I gathered while doing research, there really are only a few (5?) companies that insure horses nationwide, and just various agents that may only represent one company. So they don't necessarily help you find a good insurance carrier, just to help you buy the right amount of coverage for your needs.

[I could be wrong on this, I'm sure it's possible that there are true *independent agents* but I did not find that in my own research.] In my case I called two agents that I had heard of from two different places only to find that they both sold Great American and the estimates were exactly the same (to the penny).

I also have to say that it wouldn't be possible to transfer a policy from one horse to another, because they are all insured at different rates depending on the amount of coverage, breed, health, use, etc. It sounds like there should have been a temporary policy that you might have been able to buy instead? I know some people do this when they take a horse on trial?

$200 isn't really a lot in premium for a year (not that anyone hates to lose $200) - my 5 year old mare is only insured for $6K mortality and $15K major medical and my premium is almost $600/year. But of course I live in NY, and they recommended that I buy enough major medical to cover colic surgery + complications and that will depend on where you live. I called my equine clinic and they told me colic surgery was an easy $8K with no complications at all, and often times not everything is covered, so $10K might not really be enough.

Good luck. It's really confusing at first!

SFM in KY · #15 04/27/10, 08:27 AM

I started with AgriRisk in 1991 ... at that time they were a true "independent agent" ... and the insurance coverage with the various horses were with different companies at different times. They "shopped around" to get the best coverage based on what my requirements were for the specific horse I was insuring, mostly breeding animals rather than performance horses. At one time I had two horses covered and the actual insurance policies were with two different companies.

Most equine insurance policies I've had were a basic minimum coverage (amounts vary with the company) for mortality and you can get this without a vet exam, you just have to "certify" that the horse has not had any health issues (and be able to prove it if required) ... pretty much based on the purchase price of the horse or if it's one I bred, based on the sales price of similar animals I'd sold.

The sale of the company to Merkel was recent ... and I really was not aware that they were no longer an independent agency at the time I renewed this policy. I'd cancelled an insurance policy in the past on a horse that had been sold and gotten a refund ... mentioned that I expected to do this with this leased pony since he was going back. Was not made aware that there were "limitations" which would make it not possible in this case ... my fault for not following up and making sure nothing had changed and it could be done.

At 68 years of age you'd think I would know better than to trust horse traders, used car salesmen, politicians ... and insurance salesmen!

offthegrid · #16 04/27/10, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFM in KY

Most equine insurance policies I've had were a basic minimum coverage (amounts vary with the company) for mortality and you can get this without a vet exam, you just have to "certify" that the horse has not had any health issues (and be able to prove it if required) ... pretty much based on the purchase price of the horse or if it's one I bred, based on the sales price of similar animals I'd sold.

Yes, definitely true. And I guess if I only put mortality on my mare it wouldn't be $600/year. I think it's definitely the major medical that jacks the price up.

SFM in KY · #17 04/27/10, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offthegrid

Yes, definitely true. And I guess if I only put mortality on my mare it wouldn't be $600/year. I think it's definitely the major medical that jacks the price up.

Yes, major medical can definitely up the costs depending on specific coverages and deductibles. Another thing that can up the price is if the horse is in training and/or in competition ... and what kind. Dressage training/competition is lower, for instance, than jumping or eventing.