Any good logger stories?

[manfred]

I've not seen anyone ever say they were satisfied with the logger they hired.
My neighbors had some horror stories,scared me off. Any good reports?

[MN Gardener]

We have had our property logged off and it was fine, but this was by someone DH knows. The county land that was logged off next to us was done by a different logger. They left a huge mess and a huge pile of wood that I am scared is going to start a fire with the lack of rain. We did have a logger get put in jail a few years ago, he logged some county land and didn't get a permit or pay them for it.

[highlands]

We log every year, often much of the year doing selective cutting here and there as well as some clear cuts. We are generally pleased. We've worked with most of the same loggers for 20 years. Those that didn't do well didn't get invited back to work again. Insist on things being done right.

[Navotifarm]

I'm a member of a small group called the Piedmont Landowners Association, most of whom have forested land and are very interested in conservation, sustainability, etc. Those who have had their land logged have generally been satisfied. I think the secret of their success is, not just good contracts, but also they stay right on top of the loggers and everything that gets done, sometimes even marking particular trees so they get full value. They are right there with a clipboard, every load that goes out! Plus most have a professional consulting forester who sets up the job and keeps control.
That's the good aspect as opposed to what happened to me! In a neighboring county, there is a logger who was on the Board of Supervisors. He was engaged for a job but cut thousands of dollars worth of trees from an adjoining parcel which has an absentee owner. I mention that because the good part is, that didn't happen with me and my logger. At least I did my stop-loss action before he got over any boundary lines!

[Old Vet]

I had my timber logged and was pleased. I used to work for the Arkansas Forestry Commission and got a list of lodgers in my area and contracted with one and he did mine with out my being on the property. He cleaned up just like the contract called for and gave me a check from the mill for my part. I will call on him for the next time I logged.

[heelpin]

I've never met a completely honest logger and it has cost me a bundle to find this out. They are in the business to make as much as possible off you with a low bid or the worst ones will skim loads and some don't know how to get the best price at the mill. If you have a large track you can go to the mill and sell the timber yourself and then hire the logger and pay by the thousand board feet. This is the fairest way to do it in my opinion and you can weed out the dishonest ones in a hurry with this proposal but even with this agreement you'll have keep up with the loads and it's doesn't take into account the man at the mill with the stick, learn how to scale and have at least a ballpark figure of what a load contains. Of course all this is mute if you take bids and sell in bulk, in this case the buyer will always claim he lost money but I can guarantee you that 99% of the time they make good profit off you over and above the logging. You can have them sign an agreement to repair the roads, fences etc., but usually you will have to sue them.

[snoozy]

I am very happy with the horse logger who has been selectively logging some of my trees. He has done a great job, his horses are magnificent, and he has watched out for my interests. However the timber dealer guys who are buying the logs are not to be trusted, and so it is good that the logger is keeping good records about exactly how much timber he has cut and lined up very neatly for the trucker. If anyone in Kitsap, Mason, Jefferson or Clallam counties of WA need a logger, PM me.

[foxfiredidit]

The primary mistake that most landowners make is that they sell to "loggers" instead of the mill where their raw forest products are consumed. Even if that mill only uses one of the products growing on your property. It is up to them to pay you a competitive price and ship the periphial products securely so that you get your money. They have employees who do this. Another is that landowners sell to "loggers" who then become an added middle man in the chain of custody of that timber....bad mistake. Another mistake is that they don't sign a written contract for the timber sale and list in that contract what they expect the outcome of the logging job to be, whether it's adherance to the state's best management practices for forestry, which I think is mandatory now in all of the states, or even down to specifics such as logging deck locations, streamside management zones where only certain logging is permitted, or even down to written periodic inspections of the sale area and security checks made by a qualified person. Go out and hire a jackleg to cut your timber and that's what you get, shoddy performance, a sale area that looks bad, and maybe even shorted on your money. It's up to you to sell your timber to a responsible person.

After 35 years as a timberbuyer and who knows how many hundreds of tracts of timber of all products that I have purchased over the years, I can thankfully say I've never even suffered a threat of a lawsuit. Here are some basic guidelines if you have timber for sale.

Method of Sale.
a. Lump Sum - Usually the best way for a landowner to insure he gets a favorable price. This is commonly called a "Timber Deed" and around here it can be filed in the courthouse such as regular property deed. It has a specified length of time before it expires, and if the timber has not been cut for any reason, the buyer of the timber forfeits the remaining value of whatever timber is still standing on your land. Get several bids, I'd say 3 to 5 minimum, then you don't have to worry about who's stealing from who, as you got your money up front. You can still stop logging at any time if the logger is violating any of the items you listed in the contract as terms of sale.

Have a specified date and time to open the bids, retain the option to reject any or all bids. (You may be surprised at the difference in bid amounts, and that surprised may be very positive) Even if one bid is thousands of dollars above the others, if you accept it, then the bidder is obligated to pay you that amount.

b. Timber Contract - This type of sale is usually "pay as cut" on the value of the timber. In it you are totally at the mercy of the man who operates the loader on the logging deck. Product separation is a big part of payments to you here, and if they want to get a load out on Friday afternoon late, and there's a half load of logs and and a half load of pulpwood laying there, he can mix it all on the same truck and sell it for pulpwood. Usually the same money to him, but you lose out. Just one example.
A timber contract or "pay as cut" can be successful though, and here it just depends on who you sell your timber to. Getting a reputable buyer is the key. One other note is that in this contract, among the list of things you include is a penalty to the buyer if he moves off for whatever reason and leaves timber standing that you wanted cut. Or if he doesn't put in water bars for erosion control, or cuts undesignated timber, or cuts too close to a stream, or any violation of things you've included in the deal.

You can have a bid opening on this type of sale as well. Have them list each product separately and the bid for each product. Another way here which makes for a lot less headache for you is for them to give you an average price per ton for all your timber, regardless of product. You get one amount to look at, and takes away the "product separation" aspect of security.

Execution of the Contract

Make sure you have in the contract the mention of your states "Best Management Practices" for forestry. That state law covers most situations where your property can be damaged by the logger while on the sale and even after he has completed the job and moved off.

Find out what security arrangements the buyer uses to protect you especially if you use the "pay as cut" method of selling. Product separation checks, destination checks, inspection of the sale area checks to include cutting undesignated timber, cutting across the sale line or property line, erosion control as outlined in the Best Management Practices.

Have a pre-cutting meeting with the buyer and logger and bring your contract and discuss it with them so all parties have a clear understanding of expectations and consequences. Have another such meeting with them PRIOR to the logger moving off the sale in order to discuss sale conditions before it's too late to do anything about them. Have these meetings outlined in the contract so that if they duck out on the meeting, they are in violation of the contract.

Okay, so you don't have a big tract to sell, just a good sized woodlot. The mill represenative isn't interested so you have to sell to a logger

Get a standardized contract from the internet, add your items in there. Keep in mind the way you want your property to look after the logging job.

Ask him for a look at his insurance certificate. The three items you're looking for on it are Commercial General Liability, Auto Liabiltiy, and Worker's Compensation. If he's able to support his own protection in these areas, there's a better chance he'll support your protection.

Ask him about "Best Management Practices for Forestry". The critical thing here is that at least one person on the ground every day who is a member of that logging crew needs to have completed the basic course. His name should be on a list compiled and kept by your state's Forestry Commission.

Other Stuff

Have a conversation with whoever is responsible for cutting your timber. Judge him like someone who wants to be friend of the family. If he does, then you may end up with a good friend, if not then your remaing tract of land/timber may not be that great of an asset to pass along to the next generation of your family.

Hope I haven't bored you and that you don't consider these opinions a waste of drive space. Take care of your land, it is mostly up to you as a landowner to plan well how to do that.

Horse and Mule Loggers Rock !!!!!

[GoldenCityMuse]

Wow, what great information. If you show up at random times to look them over, that will always help too, I'd imagine.