Kohler K181 magneto coil

HermitJohn · #1 04/10/10, 11:39 AM

Last year I started getting very weak spark on the Kohler on my old Gravely. Replaced the points/condenser and still at best occasionally weak spark. Kohler coil crazy priced. Took easy way out and converted it to battery coil. Kind of a pain as only good place to mount a battery tray made opening the hood difficult. Did make engine very easy to start....

Last year you could buy a genuine Kohler magneto coil but it was some crazy price $80 and up. This year nobody selling them for Kohler K engines at any price. However somebody on smokstak.com suggested the old points style Tecumseh coil was direct replacement except for wire length and is still very available. You can buy new one around $20 shipped.

Anyway I have at least 4 old Tecumseh lawn mower engines setting around that will never be used again so I pulled flywheel off one. Surprised it wasnt points ignition and it had two coils. One looked like the old kind used on points Tecumseh engine and indeed identical to the Kohler coil except it has three wires looked to be wired in series with the second squarish coil. I pried the correct looking coil off (this is old Clinton/Tecumseh/Kohler style coil that you pry coil off the middle leg to replace and dont replace the metal leg or bracket part itself).

I'll be trying it as I have it and doesnt cost anything to try it and just twist the extra wire to other wire same color. But hadnt ever seen this kind of two coil setup on a Tecumseh before. I assume the ignition module is molded into the second coil and was an early transition method from points system to electronic though seems kinda expensive complex way to go. Course these just never gave a problem on Tecumsehs and usually lasted life of engine so never had reason to pull flywheel on one before. The points era Tecumsehs just had the one coil.

The coils on the old "K" Kohler engines never gave problem either. On mine, I think nothing wrong with windings, but spark plug wire connection failed. Wire on these twists down into hole in molded plastic onto a little screw looking thing that then provides connection to core of plug wire. Well the little screw had rusted into nothingness so no good connection to wire. And no way to repair it. On the early Briggs coils used with points, you just soldered a new plug wire onto little metal ear which is more robust design.

Oh and while I am soapboxing on the subject, whats the deal with the super expensive points and condenser sets anymore? Nearly $30 to replace points and condenser on Kohler "K" engine!!!! I'll just use universal electronic conversion chip that you still can find under $15. Some guy on internet saying you can make little bracket and use unipoints made for old GM V8, but cant really see the point (bad pun). The $15 electronic chip will last forever and easier, no servicing points and condenser anymore either.

cubfarm 1 · #2 04/10/10, 09:15 PM

On the old K-series Kohlor--- find a coil for an old V-W at the local parts house. Same coil,,, much cheaper!!! You are just looking for a resistor type coil. No resistor and the points get burnt up way too quick. Good engines. darned hard to kill.

cubfarm 1 · #3 04/10/10, 09:23 PM

By the way points should only be about 12bucks and the cond- about $8.00. That is rather high and can be found cheaper. Best way to make a set of points last forever is to have a spare set. Then you will never need that part! Have fun!

HermitJohn · #4 04/11/10, 03:23 AM

No, this is a MAGNETO version of the engine, not battery version. You can still get battery version parts, but not magneto parts from Kohler. And anything that says Kohler on box is obscenely expensive. I temporarily changed to battery last year and just too much hassle lugging it around. Want magneto again. This has magneto coil under the flywheel. And the little universal ignition chip to eliminate points/condenser altogether can be found as cheap as $12 which sort of makes even $20 point set pointless. Both Kohler and Briggs sell such a conversion chip (at crazy price), though the independents like Atom and Nova2 chips are much cheaper and work just as well. I use them on chainsaws to avoid buying the expensive replacement magneto coil with chip molded in.

And an update, the Tecumseh magneto coil I salvaged is dead as proverbial doornail. Rather than strip anymore 30 to 40 year old junk engines to get the coil and waste more time, just ordered new $20 magneto coil for points era Tecumseh. It indeed is identical to the Kohler magneto coil, just wires are short and have to be spliced.

Bret4207 · #5 04/11/10, 09:36 AM

You think Kohler is bad, try Onan!!! Kohler has gone the way pf Husqvarna. They used to be great, now they're living on their reputation. Only the high dollar items seem to ahve any quality.

When I was a kid a Kohler was an exotic engine. We used Briggs, the good old cast iron-can't kill 'em-run forever Briggs, Tecumseh, Wisconsin and Clinton. A set of points back then would last 20 years. A condenser too. Every 5 years or so you'd clean the points and all would be well. We lost engines to the oils of the day, not to electronics. Fast forward to present day- the oils are fantastic, points and condensers last half a year, the engines are lighter and easier to start, but they have no guts and the plastic breaks if you look at it wrong.

Myself- I buy lawn and garden tractors from the mid 60's. Wheel Horse, Simplicity, Gravely. No, they don't come with bells and whistles and stereos and beer can holders. They still weigh a ton and are just dangerous enough to where you have some respect for them. I can deal with all that. It's called common sense.

Sparkey · #6 04/11/10, 10:11 AM

The past few posts tell the reason why I started
'easing out' of my repair business 7-8 years ago. Pretty much impossible to do quality work when even the "factory parts" are not up to par. I'll do a bit of minor work for a few of my old customers but that's about it. I still sharpen mower blades, saw chains, shears, etc. Back in the early '70's when I started out, I could perform a repair job correctly with quality parts and my customers could count on a good job that would last.

HermitJohn · #7 04/11/10, 10:29 AM

Dont get me started on plastic parts, they dont age well at all. Makes me want to dope slap an engineer when I have to deal with such carp. Points ignitions from factory havent existed since the 70s and I guess replacement points now are el cheapo crappo made in China. Thats why I said $30 originally for points/condenser set that is genuine Kohler. The cheaper replacement parts last only short time. Reached a time where for economy and reliability, just as well transition to electronic ignition on anything with points.

What I hate on modern stuff is the ignition chip is molded in with the magneto coil. Most of time when chip fails, the coil is still good. Well those conversion chips I mentioned above work fine if you just splice one in the wire to the kill switch, so $15 instead of $60. Chainsaw ignition modules are especially prone to failure it seems. Thats what I mostly use the conversion chips for. But fine on any engine that only has the one magnet on flywheel.

I liked the old cast iron engines whatever the brand. Parts are becoming the problem on them. Everything is considered disposable anymore because of repair shop greed and factory bean counting to manufacturing things to be disposable. As to newer engines, the Japanese engines are best. Especially Honda and Robin. I mean the commercial duty OHV engines, not the "consumer" level engines. Anybody buys a cheapened non-repairable "consumer" engine deserves what they get. Whats annoying on all new small engines is the EPA mandated crap like non adjustable carbs and non effective chokes so you have to sit there pushing a little plastic bubble. FRankly only real answer is that you either repair choke if there is crippled one with hole drilled in it or if no choke, then you buy a case of starting fluid and use that to start engine cold. Did I mention plastic on engines just sucks. Next to impossible to repair it and IF you can find replacement plastic, it suddenly costs like it was made out of not just any metal, but gold.

HermitJohn · #8 04/14/10, 02:53 PM

I got my new Tecumseh magneto coil to use on Gravely from Tulsa Engine Warehouse. Shipped was like 21.95 or something, $8.95 of that shipping. Anyway brand new and shiney and made in Taiwan where all the good stuff is made anymore.... LOL The spark plug wire was plenty long!!!! So I assume they were trying to cover just about any application that used a variation of this coil. The ground and the input trigger wire were on wrong side, but easy to route them where I needed them. Used wire nut to combine coil input wire, wire from the "+" on Nova II points elimination chip, and the kill wire going to key switch on panel. The hole in middle of coil was a wee bit large, snagged a retainer clip off the square second Tecumseh coil from that old mower and that worked fine to keep it from moving around. Couple tries with starting fluid and bing, bang, boom, it was running. Look ma, no points.... and I wont miss them. And best of all, no battery to haul around. Does look like I need to buy some new fuel line and hose clamps and probably install a fuel cut off valve as the one on the gas tank is rusted to point I wouldnt want to try moving it.

But good enough I am going back out in a bit and work in garden with it.

**clovis** · #9 04/14/10, 03:13 PM

HJ-

I love reading your posts.

Is there anything that you can't fix?

I wish you lived closer. We need more people like you that know how to fix stuff, and to provide out of the box type thinking when it comes to repairs.

Keep up the good work!

**clovis** · #10 04/14/10, 03:15 PM

Also, HJ:

There is an electrical and magneto guy that hangs out on allischalmers.com.

He's got a pretty successful business, and via his posts, seems like a very helpful and nice person.

If you have magneto problems in the future, he might be a decent resource.

Bret4207 · #11 04/14/10, 07:32 PM

Yup, gotta love the old iron. Yesterday I went out, aired up the tires and added gas to my 1964 Wheel Horse an on the first pull she popped over. Took my granddaughter for a spin. 6 hp Tecumseh. Still runs fine after 800 gazillion hours.

HermitJohn · #12 04/14/10, 09:08 PM

One thing I noticed today that I am not going to love. The recoil starter cup is wearing badly on the Kohler, one of the pot metal kind with the teeth inside. It was a not so great design. Nobody sells new replacement cups. Been looking bit online and found an old discussion of whether one could make a recoil starter/cup from a Honda GX390 work as a replacement. I'd not thought about such a thing, but I think it could be made to work, just have fab some spacers, mounts, whatever. I'll just wait until it no longer works, dont need more projects right now. But got me wondering if I could adapt such for 3 old cast iron 16hp engines I have around with the starter cup that you manually wind rope around each and every time. 2 are B/S and one an old Clinton. Big reason I never used them for anything, they were royal pain in rear to start.

HermitJohn · #13 04/14/10, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovis

HJ-

I love reading your posts.

Is there anything that you can't fix?

I wish you lived closer. We need more people like you that know how to fix stuff, and to provide out of the box type thinking when it comes to repairs.

Keep up the good work!

I cant take credit for idea of using magneto coil off a 3hp Tecumseh to replace the one on the K181. As I mentioned in first post, some guy on smokstak.com had posted about it some time ago, I just lucked onto his post. http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72389

I'm convinced, most people just give up too quickly on fixing things and somehow feel locked into doing everything the factory way, even if it wasnt a particularly good way. Course I waste lot time thinking these things out when I'd probably just as well go get job sweeping floors someplace and buy new factory made goods to support the Chinese economy ....

Bret4207 · #14 04/16/10, 07:14 AM

Well said John. Thankfully people continue to throw their junk my way and I get good use out of it. I'm currently working on a mid '60s Allis Chalmer B-10 garden tractor. Got it for $25.00 I think. Just needed a coil and some TLC. Now I'm going to paint it up and have myself a like new tractor to go with my other AC (312) and 2 Simplicitys. Plus I still ahve 3 running Gravelys and 3-4 more in the the parts pile. Can't kill some of that stuff. My old JD 40 crawler just got new final drive bearings and brake bands, my Cat D4 is waiting on parts. I don't think I own anything newer than 1968!