How Deep to plant poles in a Barn

just_sawing · #1 04/01/10, 05:25 PM

I now about the deep due to frost and such but I have discovered an interesting fact. I had a Fire in a Shop that I built 15 years ago and it was a total loss. The barn had a concrete floor that caused some of the poles to end up 3 feet deep (This is deep in the south) and others the normal 18 inches for this area.
What I have noticed is that the deeper poles became anaerobic and had no decay at all. These are cedar poles that were not all red. The wood at the surface had the typical decay for cedar. What this leads me to believe is that even if your frost level is OK at 18 inches it would be better to plant them deeper well in the clay to get them in an anaerobic state.

rancher1913 · #2 04/01/10, 07:46 PM

never hurts to go extra deep. I like to go a foot below the frostline. remember that the deeper you go the more pull it takes to remove them and in a windy area the more "grab" the ground and pole have the better.

VERN in IL · #3 04/01/10, 08:17 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Pole...0170095&sr=8-1

That book has some EXCELLENT illustrations of "how deep" one should go.(text AND pictures) Going too deep is just silly if you got good soil, and will just add extra cost/labor to the project, the book explains this very well.

Were these Cedar poles treated? If not they SHOULD have been.

The book I referenced recommends installing a concrete skirt at the bottom of the pole holes and installing lag bolts into the poles for better strength. Also the pole holes should be backfilled with sand or "good" soil(as explained in the text)

rambler · #4 04/01/10, 10:23 PM

Four feet deep here. Wow, 'normal' 18 inches... That wouldn't hold a fencepost around here, much less a building.

Don't you have wind issues? I thought the building would need to be anchored down to the ground for side-loading from wind, I wouldn't think 18 inches is stable enough for that?

--->Paul

just_sawing · #5 04/02/10, 06:34 AM

These Were Red cedar and not treated.
The ends were as if they had just been cut.
I promote non treated ideas here, people not realize that the EPA has banned the treating of wood with the products that have been common. The companies still do it under a waiver since they can,t figure out how to kill the rot causing organisms and not people

ErinP · #6 04/02/10, 09:48 AM

Ours are buried 3' deep to make sure to get below frost depth.
BTW, I'd second Vern's book suggestion. One of my better $12 purchases, to be sure. We had it with us constantly as we built our pole barn last summer/fall.

michiganfarmer · #7 04/02/10, 10:05 AM

there are a couple contractor that come into my sharpening shop who buy, cut and sell this particular kind of tree for posts. Its an invasive species. They say the stuff will last 50 years in the ground. Its much better than cedar.

Man! I cant think of the name of the stuff! Its very dense, its a dark wood...

I dont remember. If I do ever remember I will try to post back here

ErinP · #8 04/02/10, 10:30 AM

Is it osage orange?
Osage orange/hedge is considered a "weed" but will last an easy 50-100 years in the ground. I've seen it.
They're really popular for fence posts except for the fact that you have to wire the barbed wire to them. It's nearly impossible to drive staples into them! lol
(They don't grow big enough, in our area at least, to make "poles" though)

motdaugrnds · #9 04/02/10, 10:47 AM

If you want a "non-treated" tree post buried in the soil as wall studs, Locust cannot be beat. You can actually bury it in running water and it will not decay. As for cedar, I have been told you need to strip the bark off them before burying them. I prefer treated wood buried anywhere from 2-4' deep, depending on the length of that piece.

michiganfarmer · #10 04/02/10, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

If you want a "non-treated" tree post buried in the soil as wall studs, Locust cannot be beat. You can actually bury it in running water and it will not decay. As for cedar, I have been told you need to strip the bark off them before burying them. I prefer treated wood buried anywhere from 2-4' deep, depending on the length of that piece.

Locust! that was it!

...I think

ErinP · #11 04/02/10, 01:36 PM

Locust is a dark wood...

Farmerwilly2 · #12 04/02/10, 03:47 PM

Yep, locust would be my 1st choice for a wood post. Wishing I had a nice grove of them. Make killer honey also.

Darren · #13 04/02/10, 08:52 PM

Everything you wanted to know about how long fence posts will last. The tests started in 1927. After 66 years osage orange had little or no decay with no failures. Black locust had 22 failures. The report covers treated and untreated wood posts and steel posts.

http://juniper.orst.edu/post-farm.pdf

Pony · #14 04/02/10, 09:36 PM

Osage orange is VERY popular around here. There are posts that have been in places longer than locals can remember, so that's VERY long.

One of the local fellas was incredulous that I actually went ahead and planted a row of OO trees, but they make great fence posts, and they burn well: not too hot, but nice and long once you have the fire started.

just_sawing · #15 04/02/10, 11:43 PM

Osage Orange or as it is called here Bow-dark is probably number 1
Black Loucst minus the Jacket wood is #2
red cedar all red 3
with an interesting mix of Walnut no Jacket wood Red Oak soaked in Burnt motor oil in the mix at the bottom.
I make my living sawing for people and have acquired the experience over 16 years and more than 5 million feet sawed.
There are few woods if any I would suggest not squared with the jacket wood removed. Woods like the Walnut would be better with the ends Chard