A Challenge

#1 03/31/10, 05:43 PM

I challenge anyone reading this to help me solve a problem . My problem is that I have unlimited free natural gas from a well on my property . My heat , water heater , range & clothes dryer all are natural gas . My electric bill is about $40 - $50 per month . I want to generate electricity using natural gas as a fuel source . I also have central air so I need to generate enough electricity to run the ac or find a ng ac . I have searched & searched & I can't find an economical way to use the ng to generate electricity or a single home sized ac that runs off ng . Taking into account that my electric bill is fairly low I can't spend thousands & thousands of $$$'s to do what I want to do . I also haven't been able to convince myself that's it impossible to do .
I also don't expect much sympathy from most of you who have large heating & cooling bills but it's not sympathy I want , it's help , suggestions , advice & ideas that I possibly haven't thought of . Thanks in advance .

foxfiredidit · #2 03/31/10, 05:52 PM

How about a natural gas powered electrical generator, and as an add on, a natural gas powered automobile?

blooba · #3 03/31/10, 05:55 PM

Make sure you get one that is rated to run all the time since those "backup" generators aren't made to run constantly

HillsideWayCSA · #4 03/31/10, 06:06 PM

Just a thought but could tank it and sell it to neighbors? At least that would offset the cost of buying something a little more expensive that would work. If you generate more electricity than you need you can sell it back to the power company so why not the ng?

Seems doable.

#5 03/31/10, 06:49 PM

Can a link be provided to a continuous run generator ? The ones I've seen only have like a 3000 hour warranty . To run a vehicle the gas would have to be compressed & from what I've read wellhead gas is not suitable for this . I think this also answers the question about tanking & selling it along with possible liability issues . I checked into a home compressing station & from what I read the gas has to go through a refining process before it can be compressed & used in a vehicle . Thanks & keep the ideas coming .

watcher · #6 03/31/10, 07:30 PM

Check into sterling engines, heat engines and Minto wheel to power a gen head. A lot of these engines can be built at home with very little to no machine work. They tend to have a large weight to power ratio but if its going to be stationary who cares. The same with efficiency but with free/unlimited gas who cares?

tyusclan · #7 03/31/10, 08:27 PM

It can be done, but with a $40-$50 electric bill it's not going to be cost effective. The cost to purchase a generator that will do what you want will take YEARS to pay you back.

Even figuring $50 a month, that's $600 a year in electric bills. A generator that do what you're wanting to do will be a minimum of $10,000 to $12,000. That's 16 to 20 years to get your money back on the original cost of the generator alone. In that length of time you will DEFINITELY have repair bills, and may even need to replace the generator by then.

Darren · #8 03/31/10, 09:40 PM

I've mentioned these before. If you want a NG powered generator rated for continuous use consider a Lister-Petter engined unit. Hawkpower is the brand. From what I understand the units are good for 20,000 to 30,000 hours of operation before rebuild. If you run one 24/7 , stopping for oil changes, you're looking at running one for two to three years. You won't recoup the cost over that period. Tyusclan's post laid it out.

http://www.maesco.com/products/hp/hp...p_gaseous.html

#9 03/31/10, 09:45 PM

Watcher , I've read everything I could find about all the engines you mentioned & couldn't find anything that seemed feasible . No one I know of sells a sterling engine of the size I think I would need & I found the Minto wheel concept very interesting but it seems MEN tried to build one & scrapped the idea & I even read that mythbusters tried & failed to build a usable model . If you have a link to a heat engine that seems feasible I would sure like to check it out . Thanks

ETA Does anyone think using a generator part time to charge a battery bank & using the battery's for power could be feasible ? Due to the amount of drain running an ac unit I seriously doubt it .

fordy · #10 03/31/10, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

I challenge anyone reading this to help me solve a problem . My problem is that I have unlimited free natural gas from a well on my property . My heat , water heater , range & clothes dryer all are natural gas . My electric bill is about $40 - $50 per month . I want to generate electricity using natural gas as a fuel source . I also have central air so I need to generate enough electricity to run the ac or find a ng ac . I have searched & searched & I can't find an economical way to use the ng to generate electricity or a single home sized ac that runs off ng . Taking into account that my electric bill is fairly low I can't spend thousands & thousands of $$$'s to do what I want to do . I also haven't been able to convince myself that's it impossible to do .
I also don't expect much sympathy from most of you who have large heating & cooling bills but it's not sympathy I want , it's help , suggestions , advice & ideas that I possibly haven't thought of . Thanks in advance .

..................I work at one of three entry points too a large ranch that has many natural gas well , most wells have their own compressor ! These compressor engines are actually diesel engines configured too run on NG . They run 24\7 unles they have a problem or need service so I'd look into maybe converting a small diesel engine over too run on NG . My idea here is that you'll get the most longivity out of a diesel engine vs a Gas engine or atleast it seem so . , fordy

blooba · #11 03/31/10, 09:50 PM

over in the alternative energy forum they may have more info but you could setup some batteries and not run the generator constantly. Maybe even have an automatic on/off switch based on the battery charge. I maybe dreaming there but technically its possible.

Darren · #12 03/31/10, 10:02 PM

Fordy the Lister-Petters are diesels converted to NG. That's why they last so long.

tinknal · #13 03/31/10, 11:20 PM

Could a LP engine be converted to run on NG? Seems to me an easily convertible and common model of an automobile engine to run the generator would be the answer. Common models of engines, used, sell fairly cheaply. Pick a common engine and replace as needed. The conversion parts can be transferred to the replacement engines.

fordy · #14 03/31/10, 11:51 PM

...................Back in the 1950's , 60's and 70's before Pump jacks were converterd too electric motors they used these old single cylinder NG powered engines that used NG right out of the well head . They ran about 450 too 650 RPM , and had hugh flywheels that we had to stand on and rock back and forth too get them started . I would spend several weeks with my Uncle every summer as he was a Pumper and I'd help him start these engines . They ran SO slowly that once they fired you could simply jump off the flywheel with no problems . The exhaust was SO loud they would run the exhaust pipe Under ground for several feet too dampen the noise ! , fordy:banana02:

#15 04/01/10, 01:50 AM

You can buy conversion kits to run gasoline engines off natural gas & as far as I know well head gas is fine . My father-in-law has one on one of his pump jacks . The only problem with using well head gas in a vehicle is it has to be compressed into the vehicles tank & there seems to be some problem compressing well head gas for this purpose . A stationary engine running off a natural gas line seems to work fine . There are also compressors on some of the gas lines in this area . They are used to force gas from a line that has lower pressure into the main line that has higher pressure . My wifes grandfather ran his sawmill off a large IH engine that ran on well head gas .

brosil · #16 04/01/10, 08:14 AM

There's something called a Bloom Box that's starting to be used now. I guess it's some type of NG fuel cell but I don't know what it costs.

watcher · #17 04/01/10, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WV Hillbilly

Watcher , I've read everything I could find about all the engines you mentioned & couldn't find anything that seemed feasible . No one I know of sells a sterling engine of the size I think I would need & I found the Minto wheel concept very interesting but it seems MEN tried to build one & scrapped the idea & I even read that mythbusters tried & failed to build a usable model . If you have a link to a heat engine that seems feasible I would sure like to check it out . Thanks

If you are thinking about buying anything the odds are you are not going to save enough money to get any real pay back.

IIRC, when MEN tried it they used very small tubing which made it work poorly. Its easier to move fluid in a large tube than a small one, to a point of course.

I saw the episode of the mythbusters episode. They DID build a working wheel. But they were only building a 'proof of concept' model. That is one to show it worked not to be used for anything. If you watch the show (I think you can watch it online) you will see they used 4 or 6 20# propane tanks to build a wheel about 4' tall. That meant the lever arm of the wheel was only about 2' long. 20# tanks are heavy and using such a small arm means it isn't going to work very well. A bigger wheel would mean a longer lever arm which means the same amount of weight of gas would provide more toque.

**Cabin Fever** · #18 04/01/10, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyusclan

It can be done, but with a $40-$50 electric bill it's not going to be cost effective. The cost to purchase a generator that will do what you want will take YEARS to pay you back.

Even figuring $50 a month, that's $600 a year in electric bills. A generator that do what you're wanting to do will be a minimum of $10,000 to $12,000. That's 16 to 20 years to get your money back on the original cost of the generator alone. In that length of time you will DEFINITELY have repair bills, and may even need to replace the generator by then.

Tyusclan has your answer (IMHO). You could always buy a NG refrigerator and NG freezer and knock that electric bill down to $20 to $35/month.

tinknal · #19 04/01/10, 02:02 PM

Maybe instead of finding ways to save money you could look for ways to make money. Say, a heated greenhouse?

Caz · #20 04/01/10, 03:49 PM

How about a fuel cell?
Caz