Building A frames for barn roofs

[FarmboyBill]

Stopped in Lowes this morning. Wanted to look at there grips and fasteners for makeing the A frames I had seen prefabed for houses. They sent me a guy who works there who is a carpenter. He said, Dont use them Use 1/2in plywood triangles 9in ea side. 2 to each joint., one on each side, and gluded, and nailed. Im going to ask him about bolting instead, as I think that would be easier, say 2 bolts per 4X4, or 4 per joint. Use 2 X 6s but id rather use 4 X 4s. same diff. He said I should get 12 triangles out of one sheet of plywood, NOT particle board. I am going to hook up a hay track, that will slant towards the front... SO By the time it gets within5ft of the door, it should be low enough that I can place a 10ft long 4 X 4, half inside the top over the braces, and 1/2 outside to brace , or help brace the hay track. Haveing the track on a slant towards the door will make it easier to bring the carrier back out after the hay is dumped.. My grandpa had a cable that ran out from the top of the barn down 10ft further than the barn was long. On this, he had a rock as weight. Another cable was attached to the pulley that held the rock and went back upto the barn and attached to the carrier. That way, when te load was dumped, and the hitch was released, the weight would pull the carrier back out to the front. Whats your thoughts. I didnt think the plywood would ber substantial enough, but he gave the figures that said such a joint made would hold 1400#. Ill ask him about the bolts, and how far I need to place the frames apart in the barn. I can easily gewt electric poles to use, that are old. What I intend to do, is, my neighbor has a post hole digger for his tractor, 6/8india. Tho all of my poles will be way bigger in dia, say he can drill a hole 4ft. If I need the walls to be 10ft, Ill cut the poles 14ft. Then ill take either my skil saw, or chain saw, and run a cut around the pole at 4ft, Then ill take a log wedge and start cutting off the excess till Ive got a 4ft long piece and 5/8in dia attached to a 10ft pole. Ill lay out parachute cord around the outer peremeter of the rectangle of the barn. Ive brought home hardwood frames, made outa boards that cant be nailed, at lerast by a hammer. Illbolt them together, there 4 X 10, and at each, or every other joint ill set a pole. Each hole will have to be dug in accordance to the dia of the pole that will be above ground. No problem. Ill attach the frames to the poles, and then, the A frmes to the poles, tho ive got an idee how ill do that, ill wait till the walls are up before I make a final decision. The A frames have got to be rather, or more at an angle than normal in order to hold the weight of the hay, BUT, theyve got to spread enough at 3ft from the track the roof is 3ft apart so as to allow the hay to pass by without rakeing the undersides of the roof.

[The Paw]

I can't really get a visual picture of you whole building, but would say this:

The plywood gussets for the corners or a triangular roof truss work really well and are surprisingly strong.

Also, for roof rafters, 2x6 will carry more load than 4x4s, and will weigh less.

[Farmerwilly2]

I must have a crazy calculator. 4'x8'=32sq ' 32sq 'x 144"(144'=1sq ') = 4608 sq "

4608 sq" / 81 sq " (9" x 9" square) = 56 squares. Cut in half that should leave 112 triangles.

Don't discount the carpenters advice just because his math sucks, he's probably the product of a public education. The plywood gussets will make a very strong joint. I'd skip the bolts and use an air nailer if you have one and let the nails fly. The lumber will give before the joint does.

[Jim-mi]

Another vote for the plywood/glue/ air nailer. . . .

In the long run a bit cheaper than a bunch of bolts . . . . .and far stronger.

I too got a bit lost on the rest of the building.

[Trisha in WA]

We have used plywood in the corners like that and they are super strong. It's the glue that really holds them together...your nails (or screws) are just to keep it tight while the glue dries.
Here's a link to basically the same thing we built.
http://userpages.bright.net/~fwo/gre...reenhouse.html

[wy_white_wolf]

Plywood/OSB, glue, and nail



The end triangles can be larger to mate up with the sheathing

[VERN in IL]

Wow, can this MAYBE be modified for a small home/cottage construction?

I am thinking building three greenhouses connected to a center kitchen room, basically a square with three branches and a entrance...

I was looking at pole barn constructed homes, but this looks better, using fewer materials, any comments?

(and NO we don't have permits around here )

[springvalley]

Kinda clever little hay barn, how you gona fasten the hay track up to the trusses? You shouldn`t need the weight on the hay trolley, you usually use the trip rope to pull the trolley back outside after the hay has been dumped in the barn. That is the only way I have ever put hay in the barn loose. Thanks Marc.

[FarmboyBill]

Well Sv. I know that our barn had had the cable outside, cause we didnt use the hay track anymore, and the cable ran down the eve of the barn and wrapped around the corner into a pile. We quit useing ours cause we had went from loose to baled hay, and unlike grandpas or my uncles, we had a loft, and the drop of those bales broke the flooring. Grandad still used his haytrack so he still used the cable. Grandad had to keep useing his cause somebody had built a long hog house around 20ft in front of the barn. He couldnt run an elevator. As to fasteningThe track. Thats the (relatively easy part. Just offa my head. Ill make straps that look like a T with the cross piece around 8in wide, the bottom let might roun12in. with a hole on the bottom. At the point where the track runs under the A frame weld a strap ip round 6in with a hole in it to bolt the 2 together The cross part of the T will straddle the 2 plywood braces at the top of the A frame,

As I see it, the hard part will be getting the A frames up 10ft high on the walls, And to keep them to stay there straight while I start bringing 2 X 4s across them to lay on the tin,
Fw I didnt say he said 9in sqs, He said 9in triangles. Im sorry, U got better figgers than I got, and the above is all all I could saine outa your post.

[Jim-mi]

Yes Vern . .when connecting 2 by's on some sort of "custom" angle the plywood/glue/nails is the best way.
Those cheaper "bang on" metal thingys are just a "time saver??"

[uncle Will in In.]

FarmboyBill <> You won't be putting a hay mow in a barn that is 10' at the eaves will you?? I haven't seen a hay track put in a barn in 50 years. Are you really planning on putting up loose hay?? Where will you find men that will get up in a boiling hot barn under a steel roof to pitch the hay back with pitchforkls?? Digging the hay loose to feed it in the winter ain't a barrel of fun either. If you put bales in the barn, all you'd need is a good loader tractor and a wide door on one end. The hay could go from standing in the field to being stored under roof, then fed to the livestock without being touched by anyone. If you use trusses, your loader tractor will life them into position by putting a gin pole in the bucket.

[Trisha in WA]

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

Wow, can this MAYBE be modified for a small home/cottage construction?

I am thinking building three greenhouses connected to a center kitchen room, basically a square with three branches and a entrance...

I was looking at pole barn constructed homes, but this looks better, using fewer materials, any comments?

(and NO we don't have permits around here )

Vern,
We used the greenhouse design to build a dairy (milk parlour and processing room) and a hay barn. It was very easy to adjust the size to suit our needs. We have also thought about working it into a cabin design. It was really easy to build and held up very well in some strong winds with only a truck tarp as the roof and walls.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

Use 1/2in plywood triangles 9in ea side. 2 to each joint., one on each side, and gluded, and nailed. Im going to ask him about bolting instead, as I think that would be easier, say 2 bolts per 4X4, or 4 per joint. Use 2 X 6s but id rather use 4 X 4s. same diff.

I kinda stopped here - the nails & glue will actually do better than the bolts. You can use the bolts, but you are creating 2 high-stress points, instead of spreading out the load as nails would do. The nails would be easier any which way I look at it, and in this case would actually hold better - they don't get enough grip on 1/2 inch plywood....

The big deal is 2x6 would be much, much stronger than a 4x4. The depth of 6 inches will hold a lot more weight than the less-deep 4x4. That's just common construction knowledge. For sure use the 2x6 if you want a strong roof!

Otherwise, the plywood triangles glued & nailed to 2x6 should make a strong joint for a roof, as you were told.

Using bolts & 4x4 doesn't sound nearly as good, for many reasons. It'll be a lot weaker.

--->Paul

[rambler]

You will be surprised to find how few bales (or how little loose hay, if you are doing loose hay? Everyone around here converted the hay sling to pick up 8 or 10 small square bales. Made life easier to use bales) will fit in a building with only 10 foot side walls.

I know that sounds silly, but - you will be surprised. The bales just don't flow off to the sides, they pile up under the carrier, & there you are, all full. So soon. You're gonna be disappointed with the 10 foot wall, even with a tall A frame roof on top of that.


To keep from busting through the floor, you stack baled 3 or so deep, then drop the rest onto that. Won't bust through the floor that way.

--->Paul

For whatever it's worth I once built an entire set of trusses for a garage using the plywood triangles , liquid nails & IIRC underlayment nails .

[davel745]

Bolts in my opinion aren’t going to give the squeeze per square inch like screws will. The gussets even when glued need support every few inches to achieve maximum strength. I suggest stainless steel screws or nails (ring shank) as over time moisture will rust and corrosion will occur with galvanized or steel, especially if you use pressure treated materials. Also agree use exterior construction adhesive on the gussets.

Dave

[Batt]

Just a few of years ago when I went to get the trusses for my shed building (50' x 30') the price had gone up about 150% in a month since the quote. So I decided to build my own. I used 3/8" plywood gussets, glue and 1½" x 1/4" staples (7-9/plate/leg of truss) to hold the gusset plate till the glue dried. Gussets on both sides. After snow/ice/wind still 100%. I'd do it over again.

[FarmboyBill]

Unc Will. Ive built plans for barns for 40 yrs now, and yet, at the moment, I dont have any at hand. I am guessing that from the sidewalls, which will run thereabouts 24ft apart, and ill get around 12ft above that at center. Ill build inverted Vs say 3ft apart, and every 10ft make it a A frame. Ill double them on the sides that hold the cupola, I got kids and grandkids for working in the barn. I have a 1960 Case bailer, W-140. I also have a NI loose hay loader, so im set either way. I wager Rambler ive put more bales in my grandads 40/60sq barn - attached shed on back, from the hay carrier than most, if not all in here. From age 8 till 19, 3 times a year, I know that it drops down right in front of the carrior, and u have to take them from side to side to make the tiers. BUT, We dropped them say 5ft from the leading edge of the stack, then we only had to haul out to the sides. The middle was already there. Unlike a nam elevator, which dad used, and ive got now, You would have to walk up to the end of the elevator, lug the bale back and place it side, middle side. all the way back, top all the way up front.

I have the 2 point harpoon forks, the 4 point rigid grapple forks, and the 4 point loose forks, that take up around 6/8 bales at a time.

[rambler]

I would drag the rope back from the tractor when I was little, so dad could pull the carrier back easier. Mom would drive the H.

I got to pull it back myself when it was my turn to set the carrier into the bales - dad seemed to be too busy to help then....

Then mom kinda didn't feel up to it, so dad would drive the H - he was getting pretty hard to work with, so I just stacked all the bales off the hayrack into the barn. Sure was along walk when the barn was empty.

We have a 2-story typical old barn built into a hill, drive in the top story with the hay rack.

Now I got a bale basket, so I can bale by myself, and I cut a hole in the side of the barn to put a hay elevator in - lot less walking that way.

I also got a round baler so can bale up the poorer hay with less work on that worthless stuff.....

Might take you up on that bet tho....

--->Paul

[FarmboyBill]

I also started out at Gramps barn running the trip rope. I was 6/7, prolally 7, as I started stacking at 8. But, anyway, I wanted to be sure that I tripped it RIGHT when they said to trip. My cousin had just come back outa Koreia? He was around 20. He did the setting the forks. Dad stacked in the barn, along with Uncle Milt. Gramps ran the team. I forget how many years he pulled the rope with the team, but it wsnt many. Afterwords he unhooked the A JD from the wagon, and came around and I hooked the rope to the tractor. after the early 60s, he got a 52 B, and he would leave it on the rope.

Well anyhow, I kicked the rope away from my feet, sao that I could raise my hands high so I could give the rope a good jerk. I also wrapped the rope around my hands once or twice, so it wouldnt slip through, or I rope burn my hands. Well, they yelled, I raised my hands, I brought them down, but it didnt trip, or stop. Up I went up the side of the hay wagon, I was on the outside side of it. When I came up even with my cousin, he grabbed me with one hand, grabbed the rope with the other, and gave it a jerk.

There was a slope on the far side of the barn as you came away from the barn. The hog house had kept the dirt in front of the barn pretty much in place, but when you got past both it sloped down, maybe 4ft. Well, Grandpa had a new DB hay wagon, and to keep it that wqay, he varnished the bed. Well, grandpa was driveing the empty wagon away from the barn. I was set on the L front side. Dad was standing at the L back side. When the wagon hit the slope, dad fell down with a cuss, and slid into me. I turned enough to get kicked in the side of the head, and we both went offa the wagon. Grandpa turned around, and said Whut the hell is goin on.

After I had grown, and grandpa found it hard to gety help, and My cousin, whose been gone for around 10 yrs, whose name escapes me now, had got work at the creamery in St Joe, whose name also escapes me also. He had got married, and his wife wouldnt let hime come out to help grandpa any. ANYWAY, once my brother and I were inside the barn, When the carrier was tripped, the rope would sag way down. After awhile, we would grab it and ride it to the top and drop back down on the hay. This caused a snapping sound when the rope hit the track. Once grandpa came and watched unbeknownest to us. He had just got inside and looked up, when we let loose and fell down.. He had thought a pulley was notched and causing it. He said (Whut the G D hell do ya think yer doin. Quit that G D S. Youll break yer necks.. Im setting here writting this, with a smile. BOY, those were the good old days.