"Grounding" question

cc-rider · #1 03/30/10, 06:51 PM

I'm running my underground electric line from the pole to my house and it will run through a hole in the basement wall, underground. Can I ALSO run my ground wire underground?? Does any of the 8' pole or nut holding the wire need to be exposed?? I'd like to just bury the whole thing, if possible, while I'm filling in the trench.

Thanks again!
CC

Surge223 · #2 03/30/10, 07:44 PM

It is fine to bury the whole thing. But I leave the rod about 2" above ground for additional grounding if needed in the future. Any inspectors will also want to see the ground rod.

Remember that the rod needs to be driven straight down into the ground and
not laid horizontally in the ditch.

cc-rider · #3 03/30/10, 08:04 PM

Yeah, is going to be driven straight down, but figured it'd be easy to do before I fill in the trench than going through it afterwards.

So I should put the acorn-looking nut thing further down the rod and bury it, as long as the top is exposed?

Surge223 · #4 03/30/10, 08:26 PM

I would leave the acorn nut exposed at the top so you can add to it in the future if needed.

Remember to put the acorn nut on first before you pound it in the ground. Otherwise you will spread out the top of the rod while pounding, and then the nut wont go over the top of the rod.

Everyone will look for this rod in the future. Cable, Satellite, Phone, etc.

cc-rider · #5 03/30/10, 08:55 PM

Thanks for the advice. I probably wouldn't have thought to put the nut on first!
I doubt that I ever have cable, satellite, or phone, but maybe someone else will when I'm gone.

Oldcountryboy · #6 03/30/10, 09:53 PM

If I remember right, the NEC code book actually wants the whole ground rod underground. However, most electricians will leave a couple inches exposed to place the grounding clamp on. Also, laying the rod in a trench is acceptable so long as the ditch is 3 feet deep or deeper. Good luck with getting the backhoe man digging it 3 feet deep.

rambler · #7 03/31/10, 12:21 AM

I'd prefer the electrical coming up, and going through the perimiter board, rather than coming through a hole in the basement wall. That will let water in as well.... Looping the wire up might be a better option?

--->Paul

cc-rider · #8 03/31/10, 06:49 AM

I thought about that, but I've already got the vinyl siding on, and it covers the bandboard. The trench is about 20" deep, the wire is in conduit, and will slope up a bit before coming in the house. In fact, due to the location of the box and how the wire needs to go in, it might be above the "ground" level where it goes in. Even "underground" will be above ground level because the house is banked.

Dug the trench by hand. Well....DS did!

I just looked at the calendar....I started this house 2 years ago April. Sigh. If you would have told me that I'd still be getting siding on it, and there'd still be no electric or water hooked up, I would have thought you were crazy.

Macybaby · #9 03/31/10, 04:21 PM

I'm another one that would never bring the wire in the house through the cement below grade.

our wire comes in a trench 2' below grade then comes up a PVC pipe and into the house, then back down to the panel. The ground wire is also in the PVC pipes and then goes into the trench and three grounding rods are spaced in the trench near the house and pounded down. We live were it can get very dry so they recomend at least 2 rods, and DH likes to be safe. Electric company was impressed at how we had the house grounded.

The old way the house was grounded was the ground went through the siding near the top of the upper wall - and then at some point someone else resided the house and to make things easier, just cut the ground wire off.

At the ground level you could see the wire coming from under the siding and connected to the ground rod - we just "assumed" the two were connected until we took off the siding.

BTW- vinyl siding is not all that hard to remove and put back in place. It took us several years to get our house remodeled, and in the process I had to side and take down sevaral areas more than once. I still have some areas to fix where we replaced a door late last fall. We went two years with half the house white vinyl and half brown masonite. But then half the roof was green and the other half dark brown too -

Things always take longer, but my brother explained it to me. I thought our project would take 3 years, DH said 5. So one would think you take the average - 4 years. But instead you ADD them together and get 8. Since we are already in the middle of year 6, it looks like that could be correct.

Cathy

Jim-mi · #10 03/31/10, 07:50 PM

Does your electric drop "pole" have a ground road at it . .??
Many places will not allow a second ground rod at the "house"
Idea is that if there is a fault some place that a current could run between the ground rods . . . not good.

So back to the....."One main ground rod for the whole system"

The NEC book has a mind boggling amount of pages on just "grounding"

cc-rider · #11 03/31/10, 08:01 PM

Hmmmm....I'll have to check that out. I know there is a ground rod at the pole. And I just put the one at the house today. Probably 25' between the two. I suppose I could disconnect the one at the house if that is a problem.

tyusclan · #12 03/31/10, 08:17 PM

If you have a ground rod at the pole you should not have another at the house. You only need to run 4 wires and tie the grounding lugs together with the 4th wire. The whole house is then bonded to the existing ground rod at the pole.

The top of the ground rod needs to be at least 2 inches below grade. The inspectors want it driven down but left uncovered until after it is inspected, then covered.

RedneckPete · #13 03/31/10, 08:22 PM

It's not a big deal to bring in the conduit below grade. It does create an avenue for water to get it, but that is easily solved.

I always dig down to the weeping tile (perimeter drain) and back fill to at least a foot or so above the hole in the foundation with clear stone. Tar the heck out of the spot where the electric conduit goes through your foundation. With all the clear stone, the water will fall right down to the weeping tile, and will never come through the hole into your house.

Leave your siding in place There is no need for the hole in your foundation to leak.

Pete

foxtrapper · #14 04/01/10, 06:03 AM

Remember, the clamping action of the ground cable to the rod is via a threaded fastener, and a whole lot of them are steel. So it corrodes nicely and loosens as a result. Especially when buried, boy does steel rust when buried. Dig up some old grounding rods some time and look at them (copper coated steel, frequently). Above ground, they don't rust nearly as much, so the grounding stays effective far longer. It is also far more easily observed and repaired, should such need arise. If you find yourself needing to attach something else to it (sometimes this need does arise), it's easily found and done when above ground.

No warranty expressed or implied, your mileage may vary, always follow your local code, etc.

Oldcountryboy · #15 04/02/10, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyusclan

If you have a ground rod at the pole you should not have another at the house. You only need to run 4 wires and tie the grounding lugs together with the 4th wire. The whole house is then bonded to the existing ground rod at the pole.

The top of the ground rod needs to be at least 2 inches below grade. The inspectors want it driven down but left uncovered until after it is inspected, then covered.

Tyusclan

Just curious, do you happen to have the latest NEC Code book and know what it says about Grounding and Ground Rods. The Code book has changes every 3 years and I don't have the latest code book. I'm still holding on to my 2005 Code book and use it as a reference. But I don't do a whole lot of Electrical work anymore so I'm behind on the latest Code changes. But when I was doing electrical work for a living, anytime the Breaker box was 3 feet or more away from the meter, then you had to drive a ground rod for the Breaker box. If the meter was mounted on the house and the Breaker box was within 3 feet, then you didn't have to drive a ground rod.

But like I said, I have not been doing any electrical work in a while, so I no longer study the latest Code book. I have no ideal of what the latest changes have taken place.

tyusclan · #16 04/02/10, 08:54 PM

No, I don't have the newest code book. I keep meaning to get one, and it's one of those things I just never think about at the right time.

As far as I know, the local codes here (which are supposed to follow the National Code) only require the 4th wire on a distant or sub-panel. I will double check on that to be sure, though.