Ask Yourself...CAN THE GRID FALL?

[diane5000]

Mostly people think of "the grid" as the grid-like mass of wire

typical of the electric power provider and going off-grid is a

proccess of disconnecting from the power grid in leiu of solar

or wind power. The grid is much more pervasive in our lives

than just the power grid however. If you think about it, the

grid is a kind of metaphor for big, centralized control of essential services

in our lives...http://frombeyondthegrid.com/get-rid-of-the-grid


Diane and Warren

[10ecn]

Not if, but when.

[wy_white_wolf]

Yes, there is more than 1 grid. The question is not if they can fall, but when?

[10ecn]

Better to consider the grid a convenience than a neccesity. Being totally dependent on it is inviting hardship at best, and disaster at worst.

[Ode]

It can happen, but the chances of it happening in any particular year are not all that high. The problem is that you never know when an event will happen that will set off the failure, and what that event will be. Localized outages are a much more likely scenario though, including long-term or even permanant loss. Preparing to keep your home and household going comfortably in the event that kind of thing happens is a smart precaution.

That said, for virtually all of our lives as a species we lived without the grid as we know it. It isn't a necessary thing to have, but it doesn make things an awful lot easier. I think I would be more upset with the loss of modern living, if something worldwide happened, than the loss of the actual grid. Civilization would just change to fit the changed world. I would miss a lot of the things we take for granted currently.

[D Lynn]

Totally. I'm absolutely amazed the internet has held up this long.
I really worry about people who rely on their debit and credit cards.
It's going to be a nightmare. When we had that little (and I mean little) heatwave and the power went out for a day. people were FRANTIC w/o their bank cards. It's just a matter of time.

[plowjockey]

I'm good. I'll stay with "the grid". I'm fond of modern life for the most part.

Besides, if it happens to "fail" horrendeously, which is unlikely, do those whose consider their lives "off grid", actually think their lives will continue as usual?

Dream on.

[TnAndy]

Asked.....and answered.

[ronbre]

of course it can and it likely will if not totally at least partially in the near future.

can the economic system of this nation fail...question # 2..likely it will also

[tiffnzacsmom]

If it falls its not going to fall and kill off everyone who knows how to fix it and every book and resource to repair it. We, as a species, are much to fond of ice and lights to let it go dark for long.

[Jim-mi]

If the "nasty guys" put a mind to it . . . . yes it can/will fall with a mighty big THUD..............

Hope that their distorted minds are not thinking about it.

Yes the ice cubes will be LONG GONE

[Loquisimo]

Originally Posted by diane5000

Mostly people think of "the grid" as the grid-like mass of wire

typical of the electric power provider and going off-grid is a

proccess of disconnecting from the power grid in leiu of solar

or wind power. The grid is much more pervasive in our lives

than just the power grid however. If you think about it, the

grid is a kind of metaphor for big, centralized control of essential services

in our lives...http://frombeyondthegrid.com/get-rid-of-the-grid

Diane and Warren

Is that your blog, Diane? I remember seeing the garbage can washing machine, maybe on another forum? Did you know that laundry was THE MOST *HATED* CHORE our ancestors did? Back then, you had to wash clothes with a washboard and bucket. It wasn't until 1939 that the modern washing machine came about! And most people likely didn't know about them. It wasn't until the late 1940s, and the onset of suburbia, that every housewife was suddenly demanding a washing machine, a clothes dryer, a dishwasher, and even a blender.

The "experts" in the 1950s were predicting one of two futures: nuclear war and a forced return to the hunter-gatherer life, or a fabulous future in which the need for work would be eliminated and idle people would be getting into trouble. We didn't get the war, but we still work, but our work doesn't have meaning. We push paper in offices.

I don't think that we'll ever get rid of The Grid entirely, but we will have to be less reliant on it. Two people simply can't produce everything they need. There has to be SOME trading, even people in the Middle Ages didn't make 100% of what they had. I personally have been trying to figure out how to get along without a washer and dryer, and electric cooking appliances. I have figured out a way to power the electric skillets and such, and the PC, but I still don't know what to do with the washer and dryer.

[sgl42]

it's rather difficult to get rid of "the grid", ie, the centralized infrastructure. eg, if you want to build an unconventional house, you usually have to be very far from a major city to avoid building codes that inforce particular building rules, and often require a minimum size house, which increases the cost of the house and now you're tied to the financial system and the economy to pay the 30 yr mortgage.

but, if you buy land far away from a city such that you can build your own house your own way, you probably have a very long commute to any jobs, which ties you to the petroleum infrastructure. unless you're retired, in which case you're probably tied to the financial system thru a pension of some sort.

so, i think you'll always be somewhat tied to the rest of society, the question is can you loosen the bonds a bit to give yourself a little more flexibility. but realize what tradeoffs you're making, and what risks you're taking, because i think there will always be some risks.

and i expect that over the next 20 years, there will be revolutionary changes in the way we all live. our current ways of living are unsustainable, and i think the problems are growing exponentially, despite efforts to paper over the symptoms. in short, i expect much of the current infrastructure to either fail, or become prohibitively expensive for average people, or unstable and difficult to rely on for immediate and always-on use.

--sgl

[rambler]

I see rolling blackouts & brownouts coming soon - we are turning our backs on a solid power producer - coal - and we have maxed out hydro power on any type of scale. We are far, far from building any other type of electrical generation. Natural gas does not have near enough infrastructure (pipelines) to handle the ramp-up of electric generation people think it will produce. Solar & wind is cool, but is dependent on the weather, and again we are lacking infrastructure (big big power lines) in the areas where they work best.

Failure? I don't see the Grid failing totally. But it will become less dependable, as we try to use more than is available.

The Tree-Huggers have deemed we should live a poorer life than we used to, and that goes against human nature. So - we are going to have blackouts & such.

--->Paul

[foxtrapper]

Tsk-tsk, stealing peoples words is theft. Make it clear that you're quoting and the words that you have in your message are not your own.

The notion behind the diatribe is downright thoughtless imo, and fails to grasp some of the most basic notions of gridding. It's a net, and a net is a far more stable way to carry a load than dangling it by a single string. You can break many fibers in a net and still have a useable net. THAT is the strength of a net. That is why we went to a net as a nation. Power can be shunted around to where it's needed the most at any given moment, and damaged areas can be isolated.

And, as with any net, be it a fishing net, a cargo net or a power net, it can indeed be badly damaged and completely fail. There never was an unconditional guarantee that no failures would ever happen with a net. Only a fool would believe otherwise.

Indeed, I do expect my power to work. I like living on the net, as do most people. It's quite convenient to expect the light bulb to work when I flip a switch. As opposed to firing up the generator, only after I've gone and gotten the gasoline, unless I decide to distill my own, and did I actually mine the oar to make the still, that brewed the fuel, etc etc etc. As some point, none of us are truly self sufficient. We all rely on others, just some are more willing to admit it than others. Though truly some are far more self sufficient than others.

[7thswan]

Electromagnetic pulse bomb.

[stanb999]

Originally Posted by D Lynn

Totally. I'm absolutely amazed the internet has held up this long.
I really worry about people who rely on their debit and credit cards.
It's going to be a nightmare. When we had that little (and I mean little) heatwave and the power went out for a day. people were FRANTIC w/o their bank cards. It's just a matter of time.

What amazes me are the people that think cash will work!!! Tell me how your cash will buy a loaf of bread when the JIT shipping grinds to a halt?

[TnAndy]

Yep....far better to turn that cash TODAY into tools and supplies for tomorrow. JIT works great right up until it doesn't.

[Ruby]

I think lots of people think because they have solar and generators they won't be affected when the grid goes down. But if you buy from "anywhere" you will be affected. If you bank you will be affected. Unless you are living in the wilderness, and hunt and gather your food and do not use anything that is man made you will be affected.

You will be fine until your meds start running out, or your gasoline or kerosene runs out. The gas stations won't be able to pump gas, the banks are now run by computers and everything that is sold in the stores are there because of trucks running on fuel. Can't pump fuel, the trucks can't deliver products to the stores.

[LandRover]

Lots of good reasons to go off-grid or gain further independence. Not sure that awaiting the breakdown of America is a particularly good one.