Another stupid question...THICK mulch...walkable???

[cc-rider]

Will I never run out??

My house is built about 5 foot out of ground and I need to bring in fill dirt to raise the ground level higher. Maybe a couple foot at the highest (against the house), and I need to slope it about 10-15 foot out from the house.

I can't find fill dirt. Can't afford the stuff I find. I DID find, however, someone who will bring me as many dump-truck loads of mulch as I want, for $25 a load delivered.

My thoughts....build terraced beds from the house out the 10-15 foot. Start the farthest away with just a landscape timber to contain the mulch, and gradually deepen it. About half-way, add more landscape timbers, and then fill those with more mulch...etc., until I reach the house where the mulch will be a couple foot deep. I would then sink large buckets in various areas with good dirt in it, and fill with herbs, mints, etc. and cover them with mulch.

Big question. I KNOW the mulch will gradually disintegrate. I can always add more. But I also need to put a sidewalk through there. Was thinking just cement patio stones. Where the mulch is deep, will that still support the patio stones and weight?? Or will it be like walking in 2 foot of seed corn? Know what I mean??? I don't want to waste my time, and have mountains of mulch, and then not be able to get to the house!

[Paquebot]

The mulch will be wood chips. It's what we use on the paths of our community gardens. We only use 3 or 4 inches but it quickly becomes a solid mat. Kids play King of the Hill on the piles and none have had to be rescued yet. And depending upon what trees they come from, may last 10 years.

Martin

[where I want to]

What kind of mulch? Some kinds, pine and their families or heaven forbid, chipped branches and leaves, disappear fast. Some like cedar or redwood can last a long time.
I can't think of a mulch that will shed water away from the house, if that is your intention with this. It will soak through the mulch and the ground will stay wet a lot longer.
I have used rubber mats over redwood bark to make walkways to the horse paddock and it has lasted quite well for years.

[uncle Will in In.]

Have you estimated the cost of the mulch?? Unless you have a small house it could run over $400.
Do you have a place where a little pond would fit in OK? If so you would have your own soil. Getting it to the house could be costly if you don'
t have any equipment. How about having a little dozer push soil from around your house up where you want it? How flat is your property?

[fordson major]

i would try and find sand fill myself, case of pay me now or pay more later!! the stones you place will shift around in the mulch!! once you had 3/4 of the area raised up then a heavy mulch!! friend of ours built a pond to get the fill for the house, now has a fish pond as well as a garden! heres hoping you never get a dumb question!! that is an unasked question!!

[7thswan]

Wood chips are working great for our drive way, we get them for free and they lock together better than bank run which I'd want rather than 21AA. Much better on the bare feet.

[cc-rider]

I thought about digging a small pond, but don't have the equipment for that. I have about 3-1/2 acres, all totally clear. And flat. I can borrow a MF tractor with a bucket, and I have a 5' tiller. Thought about using the tiller to loosen up the soil elsewhere and just scrape it up with the tractor bucket. I still like the idea of the terraces, though, instead of just a slope with grass that I'd have to mow.

Maybe I'll just get one load and see what it is like. I can always use a load of mulch in the berry beds! I have a path between the strawberry bed, rhubarb, and blackberry beds that is too confined to get the tractor/bush hog through....always thought I'd put mulch in there. He's a tree trimming service, so I'll bet a lot of it is brush-type stuff. Probably not too long lasting. Thanks for the head's up on that. I thought mulch was mulch was mulch.

LOL Martin...didn't lose 'em yet, huh? Glad to know! I've got grandkids and wouldn't want 'em falling in my mulch pit!

Thanks all!

[ronbre]

if you are in termite or flea territory i would be somewhat careful of piling a lot of mulch up against the foundation of your house..you could create a breeding ground for termites, carpenter ants and fleas.

you shouldn't have to pay a whole lot for "fill dirt" and then have just the tops soil put on the top 6" to a foot.

when you get away from the house a little way the mulch is ok..deeper..so go ahead and use that there..

[blooba]

I would get some dirt hauled in. I'd say 6" mulch is the max. No, you won't sink in but its still not stable at a few feet for a walkway. Also the much will take FOREVER to break down. 2 years ago I had some fill dirt hauled in from www.strattongreenhouses.com in Bluffton although it did have quite abit of clay in it. http://www.putnamstone.com/ would be another I would try. They both have top soil available too. I planted in the fill dirt and stuff grew well but I thought I would warn ya since results may vary.

[meanwhile]

We have used thick wood chip mulch all over the place with good results. People told me not to use it, they said all sorts of bad stuff would happen - but really nothing but good has come from using the wood chips.

To answer your original question: from my experience at the thickest place we used the mulch it was only about 3 feet deep. It was on a path, we did walk on it, it did press down but not as fast as I thought it would. We did not set any paving stones on it BUT we did have a "line" of "belgium blocks" which are basically large fat granite chunks.....and we had those on top of the wood chips to frame a flower bed. The Belgium Blocks did sink into the mulch faster than the surrounding area but we just pulled them up and stuffed more mulch under them.

I would NOT put 3 feet thick of wood chips right near the house since it will hold water VERY VERY WELL and you do not want it wet near the house. In fact, where we have the thick mulch, we never have to water. We have been dumping wood chips in one huge area (1/2 acre) for about 6 years now and we never have to water that garden. The old chips are totally rotted and become soil.

Lets see.......we put a thick layer of fresh chips (NOTE: You will want to use Fresh chips differently then you use the ROTTEN chips! The Fresh ones will, of course, take longer to break down and will hold less water. The rotten ones are really dirty, wet and will break down faster. For your idea - I would suggest using a layer of rotten ones / then fresh / then put rotten ones in holes where you plan to plant).........we used fresh chips on a road bed. People told me I was ruining the road but it did not! We put FRESH chips, not rotten ones, fresh cut on road beds and it makes very nice walking and hiking paths. WE also have wood chips in one road where we drive the car on it.

We also do the same thing you suggested about piling up the wood chips, then put dirt in a hole to plant. Use a bit more dirt around the plant than you would think....it will take a bit more for the plant o grow into.....and we take a paper sack.....a plain paper grocery sack, fill it with dirt, then stuff it in the hole into the wood chips......then plant into the paper sack. the sack will rot in time but it will hold the dirt to the plant for a while.......for larger plants, we use pieces of cardboard, make a little "wall" around the dirt ball and just cover it up with wood chips.

Could you make your garden beds and then let bushes / flower / shrubs cover up the under neath of the house so that you don't have to pile the wood chips near the house foundation? I would not pile anything near the foundation......but you could use your idea and slope it away from house and let the bushes or other garden plants hide the foundation?

good luck!

[meanwhile]

I wanted to add that you need to find out if the wood chips you have been offered are FRESH or rotten. There can be a HUGE HUGE difference. We have gotten loads that we so rotten, it was almost dirt. Then, we get loads that are fresh cut that day. We use them differently.

For what you are doing, I would use both types. Get them to dump the chips at different spots since you don't want to mix them at first. For your idea. I would use both........put the fresh ones for the path and where you need to just "fill in"....but use the rotten ones on the bottom since they will mat down and "hold" the others........then use rotten where you plant things.......and then fresh on top to "dress it up"..........

good luck!

[Harry Chickpea]

A few caveats - I wasted about three very sick months because of working with mulch. Mulch has molds and other organisms in it, and whenever you spread or chip it those molds go into the air and your lungs. I was sicker than a dog after a day of chipping some branches that had been mixed into the "free" power company mulch in Florida. When doing more than a little raking, USE A RESPIRATOR.

The speed of decay varies. In south Florida, there is a place called Tropical Gardens. The fellow who maintains it (it is his private land) literally uses TONS of mulch all the time, and some of his land is three feet thick in the stuff. Down there it decays so fast that he has to constantly replenish it, but over the years his soil has become dark and amazing.

I used to put the leaves from our big ficus trees in 2' tall windrows under a hedge rather than bag them for the waste to energy plant. Within six months the entire windrows would be gone without a trace, and the soil almost back to pure sand.

The point you may be seeing is that mulch inevitably disappears over time. That means that if you are trying to slope land for water run-off, it is the wrong material for the job.

You can often put an ad in papers or contact construction companies and request "clean fill" which is broken up foundations and sidewalks. Most of the time they are glad to dump it, you just have to watch out for fill mixed with trash and refuse it. Power companies regularly give away the mulch from keeping trees out of the power lines.

[rambler]

5 feet of 'multch' will never be a stable thing. It will attract varmits - insects at least. It will hold water. It will decompose & settle. Forever. Never be stable.

While thewre is a chance it could work, I see way, way too many negatives to even think of using more than 5 inches of the stuff.

--->Paul

[Wolf mom]

"Don't have a tractor...."
Think about this: in this area a back hoe costs about $150.00 a day to rent. (Actually, they go by the engine hours, so if you rent it on a Sat & don't finish - you have Sunday to run up the rest of the hours.) You could dig your own pond. Borrow the bucket/tractor to move the fill dirt to your house. Probably a lot cheaper and definitely more stable than mulch over time.

I've found through many mistakes - that many times it's better to invest a little at the beginning as in the long run it's cheaper.

If this lil' ol' lady can use a back hoe - anyone can.

Good luck - let us know your decision.

[o&itw]

I think the best solution, is still to dig a small pond. Either you have the money to have it done, or you can do it yourself with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. You don't need to build a huge thing..... think more the size of a swimming pool. You start moving a couple of (contractor) wheelbarrow loads a day, steadily, and you will be surprised how fast it will add up. If you have the stamina to really work at it... you can start berming up against your basement walls fairly quickly.

Actually, the tiller and bucket method works quite well, simply till for 100 feet or so, scoop it up and move it, then till again.
The only problem is that you need to do this in the dryer months... Is you get a couple-of-feet deep trench/pond and are not finished, it may sump enough water to keep you out of it for months

I would be sure to put (undercoat) sealant on them first, and If if were me I would then stick some foam insulation as high as will be covered by the dirt.

It is a great way to get into shape.

[cc-rider]

Thanks for all the info!!! To answer a couple of questions....

It isn't being done to drain water away, I have a good trench, stone backfill, and sump system....but it is being done so it doesn't look like this tall thing is sticking up in the center of flat ground. LOL

I've got 2" pink insulation on the basement walls as high up as I need the dirt to go. That's why I can't just use landscaping to disguise it. There is tar behind the pink insulation, so taking it off isn't an option.

Renting a backhoe might be an option. I've used a big stump grinder by myself before....and I'm a wimpy grandmother!! Not sure about digging by hand because of back surgery a few months ago.

The guy is bringing just one load on Monday, so I'll check it out. If it doesn't look suitable, I'll tote it to the berry beds and go to plan B. I just got all excited about the thought of doing it as terraced beds with feature plants. My original thoughts had just been to bring in dirt, slope it away from the house and plant the whole thing to grass. Now I'm envisioning a kitchen herb garden by the front door, a rose garden off the side, etc, on different levels of the terrace, with mulch around everything.

Thanks for the heads-up on the mold issue! I'm SO allergic to that stuff...and dust, etc. That's one big reason I'm building this house.... no carpet, nothing that I'm allergic to.

[fishhead]

If you are just trying to change the look maybe put up 2" of foam insulation protected with facing cement or siding and then hide it with bushes. That would take away from the "sticking out of the ground" look.