Karma for bad neighbors

Jenn · #1 03/05/10, 01:24 PM

One of my prayers lately has been to be a better neighbor- and for some of my neighbors to be better neighbors!

I got a survey done today, and will put up some sort of barrier because of a bad neighbor. Sadly for him the survey shows I have about 10 more feet of land than I had thought and that several of the paths they had been ATVing will be closed. I had put up my rough borders and signs about 30 feet in from the actual border. Had he been a nicer neighbor and assured me they'd not trespass any longer (or had he never trespassed so definitely as they had in the first place) they would've enjoyed an extra 30 ft of our property until we had to survey it for some other reason, hopefully not before they could claim it by long term use.

He has a rent to own contract and with his kids at Xmas tore up a few ATV paths and a mud pit in a lot we bought (last summer, about same time he moved on to his place) that's between our homes. When I objected he got mad at me (alcohol fueled attitude). He defended himself saying he figured we'd prefer the noise of their ATVs be further away from our house by them riding on our property rather than his rented land closer to our house. You all here and other life experiences have taught me to accept if not welcome noise and smells made by the neighbors on their own (rural) property, and strengthened my green left wing anger at destruction of our woodland and violation of my property rights. (We'd never minded or done anything about foot traffic or animals, or the apparent one time ATV tour of the place, by whom unknown.)

He came over and was polite last week, but clearly hoped for permission to 4wheel on my place, and correctly asked for clarification of the property border so he can clear trees for his own paths. However there was a bit of threat that his kids will be visiting soon and will be 4 wheeling, and that he might just clear cut his whole lot (hey, what do I care- but another reason to securely mark off our lot!) only to make me mad.

Now anyone have advice for ATV deterrent fencing when I have no other need for fences? I'd like to put up those walls of angled stakes like they used against horses in some of the Anglo Norman battles. And maybe only on the trails, with frequent inspections. As you can guess I sort of hope this guy moves elsewhere. Sad for his kids who show some of the signs of children of alcoholics.

Snowdancer · #2 03/05/10, 01:55 PM

I'm a fan of barbed wire with a smooth hot wire running along the top and also about 8" off the bottom powered by a solar charger. It keeps both unwelcome humans and critters such as coyotes and coons out.

Bearfootfarm · #3 03/05/10, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Now anyone have advice for ATV deterrent fencing

There is little fencing that will stop anyone who really WANTS to go through it.
The ONE thing that WILL stop any ATV is a deep ditch that's wider than their tires

If you have a tractor to place them, LARGE logs ( over 16") can stop most of them.
That only works in areas where they can't just go around them.
Or drop a tree across the trail if you have no way to move the logs

wyld thang · #4 03/05/10, 03:01 PM

I guess this goes if you dont' want people on your prop either build a good relationship or build a good fence or both. Booby trapping your line to "deter" children or just plain booby trapping in general can kinda get you some sort of homicide charge if something happens--baaaaaad karma that on both sides of that fence.

I think it's wrong to tresspass. I think it's wrong to ride atv's irresponsibly. BUT this attitude of booby-trapping HAS trickled over to killing innocent, fee paying legal riders on booby-trapped legal public orv trails. SO not cool! The law provides for a grownup way to sort out your stuff.

wyld thang · #5 03/05/10, 03:12 PM

DO you really want to see a rider impaled on your stakes because they saw them too late and swerved too hard and were thrown off? you got this solution from praying to be a better neighbor?

deaconjim · #6 03/05/10, 03:32 PM

Some type of strong fence re-inforced with trail cameras should help the situation.

EDDIE BUCK · #7 03/05/10, 03:39 PM

Well I had that problem with about six kids riding.Spoke to one parent,he said he would solve the problem,and he did.Its been nine years and what ever he did is still working.
If you can't do that,like DJ said,a fence and a camera will put the law on your side.Better stay clear of booby traps,if they get hurt,you will be liable.

fishhead · #8 03/05/10, 03:40 PM

Too bad that you have to spend money and time to keep the neighbors from trashing YOUR land. I would put up barbless wire topped with a HOT electric fence wire. Keep it visible and there shouldn't be any problems with accidents.

If my land was being trespassed on by ATV riders I would lay down 20'-30' lengths of wire in the ruts. Let the wire get picked up and wrapped around the axle a hundred times before the rider realizes and that machine won't be going anywhere soon. Then I'd call the cops to report that a trespasser ran over one my fences and would you please send a truck to haul it to the impound lot.

Mike in Ohio · #9 03/05/10, 03:50 PM

Jenn,

How long is the property line you need to address and what is the terrain like?

Mike

Michael W. Smith · #10 03/05/10, 04:14 PM

Bad karma or not for the neighbor, I expect he won't be too happy at all when he comes to realize you made a mistake on the property line and now some of "his" riding trails will be closed down.

I would make it a point to go and over and visit your neighbor and set the record straight - you just had your property surveyed and "Lo and behold, I own more than I thought I did. Please do not trespass on my property."

Go out and buy the proper "No Trespassing" signs and post them according to your state law and then if you are trespassed on - give the neighbor ONE warning - "If you do so again, I WILL get the police involved." and then do it if it happens again.

Be prepared to be on your neighbor's "hit list" though and be prepared to replace signs that come up missing that the neighobr won't "know" anything about.

It's nice to have great neighbors that you can be friendly with and you hunt on their land if they can hunt on yours. But when you have uncooperative neighbors, you have to set the record straight and be willing to call the police if they violate the rules.

If you let them step on your once, it usually results in you getting stepped on again and again. It's best to nip things quickly and correctly.

Setting up stakes as you would like will only result in more problems. Let the police handle the problem.

Hooligan · #11 03/05/10, 04:44 PM

Has his use of this newfound 30' been a problem for you before you discovered it was yours? Are you planning to immediately use this newfound property in a way then is different from it's current state?

If the answer to these questions is no then I would mark the newfound property line and invest in this karma you wish for by talking to the man letting him know that you don't mind him using it in the same way he has been using it, for the time being.

This would be a generous act on your part and put the onus for repaying that generosity on him. In the end things would be exactly as they are now but you both might have a better relationship based on mutual respect.

If it doesn't work out you can take more aggressive actions to block the access.

Shepherd · #12 03/05/10, 05:15 PM

I like Michael's way of handling things. Our pastor bought the 40 acres west of our land and uses our land as a means of egress, which is fine as long as there's no real abuse. When we have a problem, I just mention it to him in a casual way and it's usually resolved quickly.

His kids have gotten older and now are able to ride their ATV's without an older adult on board. They were out here one weekend with him and his BIL while they were working on their property, and the kids were riding around OUR property with the ATV's, which was really driving us both (DH & I) crazy. I finally went out and spoke with the oldest kid and more or less pointed out they have their own land, please ride the ATV's on it - not on our land. The noise bothers us and we appreciate our privacy. We never had another problem with them, but then again, they're good neighbors.

o&itw · #13 03/05/10, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooligan

Has his use of this newfound 30' been a problem for you before you discovered it was yours? Are you planning to immediately use this newfound property in a way then is different from it's current state?

If the answer to these questions is no then I would mark the newfound property line and invest in this karma you wish for by talking to the man letting him know that you don't mind him using it in the same way he has been using it, for the time being.

This would be a generous act on your part and put the onus for repaying that generosity on him. In the end things would be exactly as they are now but you both might have a better relationship based on mutual respect.

If it doesn't work out you can take more aggressive actions to block the access.

Not bad advice for a Hooligan

BTW, A barb wire fence would be an effective and economical way of fencing the border if Hooligans advice is not acceptable.
They are probaly not going to run into it with ATV's. If they cut it or the like you can deal with that with the local constabulary. It might be nice if you got a goat

Jenn · #14 03/05/10, 05:35 PM

I mean stockade type 8' high stakes, not ATV disabling punji sticks.

It is 500' about 100' through a low stream/swamp he has been driving through. The swamp will be pretty tough to put fence posts in- sandy river bottom. For now I had landlord and that neighbor see pipe and start of surveyor's stakes, and have put up surveyor's line on border between us. Tomorrow I'll put logs I can move with DD16 across their main paths. I have barbed wire roll but worry about safety for trespassers- would ratehr folks decide path is blocked than not see single strand fence line and ride through it. But guess I'll need a lot of vigilance to ensure that sort of barrier is enough, or maybe put posts for barbwire in trails I want blocked.

Had I been ignorant of the border- and not fearful that this man/family plans to tread all over our property rights- I'd not worry about the trails on the property line or as it turns out a few feet on my side and I'd save surveyor and fencing costs. However I have a case of the upping the ante, if it's war you want.... Also really feel the lawsuit fear- if a kid gets hurt on an ATV they will naturally sue my homeowner's insurance etc if the child needs more medical care (like lifelong for broken neck) than they or their insurance can afford.

rambler · #15 03/05/10, 06:08 PM

I'd kinda want to get the 500 feet all fenced off pretty much at one time. Putting up a bit here & there to _just_ block the current tracks might kinda set off a 'here take that' kind of thing, and he'll work on just driving around them in new places.

A whole fence will be more of a sufdden, here is the line thing, not seem so much 'in your face, Im just gonna block you' type of feeling.

If that makes any sense? Looking at it from your neighbor's point of view - a total fence will look like a boarder. A few logs here & there just to block the trails looks like something to just tick off.......

I'm _not_ taking your neighbors side on this, just looking at it from a human nature standpoint.

--->Paul

fishhead · #16 03/05/10, 06:36 PM

I would agree with Rambler. Putting up sections of barrier just looks like a response instead of a decision to put up a border fence.

farmergirl · #17 03/05/10, 06:39 PM

I would fence it with hotwire and lets my dogs loose on the property to run any and everyone who was trespassing off. Tis a shame you can't just work this out civilly with the guy, but I understand how lame trying to reason with an aggitated drunk can be. You have my sympathy.

Mike in Ohio · #18 03/05/10, 09:07 PM

Jenn,

For 500 feet I would just put up field fence topped with 1 strand of barbed. This is pretty standard and it wouldn't be crazy expensive. Not quite a roll and a half plus 50 posts and a couple of braces.

The soft ground means you could pound the posts in.

Set the fence back a little (couple feet) from the actual property line so that it wouldn't be considered a line fence. you should check your state law on this.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

wyld thang · #19 03/05/10, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn

I mean stockade type 8' high stakes, not ATV disabling punji sticks.

.

I guess if I say I have angled stakes to stop horses set up on my prop you'll know what you're getting, ha

You should most be afraid about liability tho, build a proper fence all the way. If you have anything resembling a trail you have an attractive nuisance.

fordy · #20 03/05/10, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn

I mean stockade type 8' high stakes, not ATV disabling punji sticks.

It is 500' about 100' through a low stream/swamp he has been driving through. The swamp will be pretty tough to put fence posts in- sandy river bottom. For now I had landlord and that neighbor see pipe and start of surveyor's stakes, and have put up surveyor's line on border between us. Tomorrow I'll put logs I can move with DD16 across their main paths. I have barbed wire roll but worry about safety for trespassers- would ratehr folks decide path is blocked than not see single strand fence line and ride through it. But guess I'll need a lot of vigilance to ensure that sort of barrier is enough, or maybe put posts for barbwire in trails I want blocked.

Had I been ignorant of the border- and not fearful that this man/family plans to tread all over our property rights- I'd not worry about the trails on the property line or as it turns out a few feet on my side and I'd save surveyor and fencing costs. However I have a case of the upping the ante, if it's war you want.... Also really feel the lawsuit fear- if a kid gets hurt on an ATV they will naturally sue my homeowner's insurance etc if the child needs more medical care (like lifelong for broken neck) than they or their insurance can afford.

......................Find a fence contractor and have a piece of 4 inch , thick wall pipe set 3 feet deep in a 12 inch diameter hole on all corners and survey stakes . ! Even , IF you plan on stringing the wire later ! NOW is the time too establish your property rights , NOT later ! I'd also set a Pipe deadman every 75 too 100 feet along the fence\property line . , fordy