Basic Construction questions

suelandress · #1 02/21/10, 11:57 PM

Please note that both hubby and I have all thumbs when it comes to building, so a "dummies 101" style answer would be appreciated

We would like to build some A frame chicken runs. From the pictures I have seen, a 2x4 is used on the top and bottoms and other 2x4s run down from the top one to the bottom ones. By the pic, I would guess that the boards running down need to be cut at an angle to sit flat agains the top one.
How do I know what angle to make the cut at, and how do I assure that each I cut are the same?

Secondly, we'd like to use hardware cloth as the wire. What kind of tool cuts through hardware cloth the best?

No laughing please!

rambler · #2 02/22/10, 01:09 AM

I could show you a lot easier than tell you on cutting the 2x4s at an angle. Maybe someone better at words will come along.

Will you be using a hand saw, or an electric skillsaw? If you had a table/ radial arm/ or miter saw you wouldn't be asking, so I'll asume you have none such.

For hardware cloth, I like using a tin snips most of the time.

--->Paul

suelandress · #3 02/22/10, 04:29 AM

Our options are a circular saw or a handsaw .... although if need be, we could get something more appropriate...

rockhound · #4 02/22/10, 05:05 AM

In theory of course, the angle is 1/3 of the total in a triangle (180) so 60 degrees minus whatever the thickness of the ridge pole divided by 1/2.
One way to find the angle would be to cut an angle in a piece of cardboard, hold it up to the board and see how far off it is. Then correct it to what it needs. You're making a pattern that you can use to cut them all. Or...lay the boards out on the floor where it's level and mark the angle that way. Once you get one right you're on your way.

fordy · #5 02/22/10, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suelandress

Please note that both hubby and I have all thumbs when it comes to building, so a "dummies 101" style answer would be appreciated

We would like to build some A frame chicken runs. From the pictures I have seen, a 2x4 is used on the top and bottoms and other 2x4s run down from the top one to the bottom ones. By the pic, I would guess that the boards running down need to be cut at an angle to sit flat agains the top one.
How do I know what angle to make the cut at, and how do I assure that each I cut are the same?

Secondly, we'd like to use hardware cloth as the wire. What kind of tool cuts through hardware cloth the best?

No laughing please!

....................Your choice of construction materials should be made based upon the Varmits who will seek too use your chickens for supper , i.e. coons ! Don't buy cheap materials and the holes in the wire shouldn't be any bigger than 1\4th. inch square . Otherwise , Mr. Coon will reach in and grab the Little Red hen and you won't have any eggs for breakfaST ! , fordy

suelandress · #6 02/22/10, 06:13 AM

EVERY varmint wants our chickens, which is why we're going with hardware cloth (yep, 1/4") We have weasels, coons, possums, skunk, hawks, fischer cats and fox after our chicks (that we KNOW of!!) I'm tired of replacing my birds. Right now they have a safe (knock wood) coop, but their runs are chain link fence with no top. It's like a buffet for all

suelandress · #7 02/22/10, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockhound

In theory of course, the angle is 1/3 of the total in a triangle (180) so 60 degrees minus whatever the thickness of the ridge pole divided by 1/2.
One way to find the angle would be to cut an angle in a piece of cardboard, hold it up to the board and see how far off it is. Then correct it to what it needs. You're making a pattern that you can use to cut them all. Or...lay the boards out on the floor where it's level and mark the angle that way. Once you get one right you're on your way.

Ok, I like the cardboard bit. Geometry was never my forte'. Thank You!!

Beeman · #8 02/22/10, 06:59 AM

Is this going to be open to the coop all of the time? I would worry about something digging under if so. For daytime use only I would just use chicken wire. I would use a good pair of side cutting pliers, good is the main word. buy a Craftsman pair and at least you will have a lifetime warranty.
If for day use only why not frame the upper with PVC, much cheaper and lighter and it won't rot. Just use a center ridge pipe with fittings to give you legs from it and then curve the legs down and attach to a wood frame giving you a tunnel type run.

suelandress · #9 02/22/10, 07:20 AM

We were going to use wood because we've at least had some experience with using it

They have a barn for nights, but it seems predators don't need the night time to come a calling!

fordy · #10 02/22/10, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suelandress

We were going to use wood because we've at least had some experience with using it

They have a barn for nights, but it seems predators don't need the night time to come a calling!

..............You can buy a relatively inexpensive staple gun from harbour freight that you can use too attach the wire too the 2x4s , the staples come in different sizes too suit your needs . , fordy

wy_white_wolf · #11 02/22/10, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suelandress

Our options are a circular saw or a handsaw .... although if need be, we could get something more appropriate...

If you are going to be cutting lots of angles you really need a chop saw (power miter box). They are available for both single and compound cutting.

Can you sketch up and scan what you want? If so then post a pic here and we'll see if we can work out a few details for you.

suelandress · #12 02/22/10, 08:59 AM

Fordy, What size staples?

sorry Wolf, no scanner....well, no working scanner. We just want to attach the runs directly to the barn in a predtor-tight manner. I'd like to wire the bottom of the run too, and then just put dirt, leaves, whatever on top of the wire for them to scratch in.

fordy · #13 02/22/10, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suelandress

Fordy, What size staples?

sorry Wolf, no scanner....well, no working scanner. We just want to attach the runs directly to the barn in a predtor-tight manner. I'd like to wire the bottom of the run too, and then just put dirt, leaves, whatever on top of the wire for them to scratch in.

..............1/2" wide by 2" long ! They are electric and very easy too load and use . You should use treated lumber for exterior use .
...............Craftsman sells an electric powersaw , 7.5 inches(standard size) that has a lazer dot\light that projects the line that the saw will cut onto the wood . So , it's almost impossible too mess up . They're sold at all home depot's , lowes and wal mart I believe . , fordy

watcher · #14 02/22/10, 10:06 AM

For me the easiest way to make lots or or long cuts in hardware cloth is a metal cutting blade in a circular saw

Windy in Kansas · #15 02/22/10, 10:24 AM

For making repetitive accurate cuts use a sliding bevel gauge to mark the cuts. Some speed squares have a swinging arm that can be set to serve the same function.

This very short video will explain how to use a framing square to determine the angle of the cuts you wish to make. It isn't rocket science at all, just a basic understanding of which numbers to use on the square. http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-fr...square-198506/

As was stated the degrees of total angle for a triangle will equal 180. If you drop a line known as a plumb bob down from the ridge rafter the angle at a level floor will be 90º. So taking that 90º away from the aforementioned 180º that any triangle will have leaves you with only having to worry about the remaining 90º. Very simple---your ridge cut and your plate cut must therefore add up to 90. Two 45s, or a 44 and a 46, or a 30 and a 60, etc. Makes no difference what angles you use as long as they add up to 90.

suelandress · #16 02/22/10, 03:13 PM

My old brain hurts! Thank you all for your help. Looks like I will have to buy some decent tools to do this right. Maybe a rectangular run with a flat roof would be easier.

Shepherd · #17 02/22/10, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suelandress

EVERY varmint wants our chickens, which is why we're going with hardware cloth (yep, 1/4") We have weasels, coons, possums, skunk, hawks, fischer cats and fox after our chicks (that we KNOW of!!) I'm tired of replacing my birds. Right now they have a safe (knock wood) coop, but their runs are chain link fence with no top. It's like a buffet for all

Why not just take some chicken wire/fencing and stretch it across the top of your existing outside runs?

suelandress · #18 02/22/10, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd

Why not just take some chicken wire/fencing and stretch it across the top of your existing outside runs?

It's too large an area ....about 50x60. It sagged in the area we tried it so we gave up. The chain link holes themselves are too large as well.

PD-Riverman · #19 02/22/10, 06:52 PM

Get your walls up with a 2x4 on top of your wall studs(top plate). Now take 2-2x4's long enough for your rafters----lay them flat on top of each other---ends level---measure on one end about 6 inches and put a mark---then on this mark measure 1/2 the width of the 2x4 (1 3/4 inch) and mark it----where the lines cross drive a nail through both 2x4's----now 2 people can take these 2x4's and pull the unnailed ends apart so they will be like a upside down V(A frame)--hold them against the 2 side walls adjusting them till you get the height you want the middle of your rafters to be----then put you a little mark on the rafter's at the top of the top plate(Where the rafters will sit after they are cut) now push the 2-2/4's back together and compare the marks---if one is longer than the other---measure and divide the difference between the marks in half----put a good mark at this point-----now take this back to the walls---hold this new mark level with the top of the top plate and with your pencil on top of the top plate draw a good line onto the rafters(this is where you will have to cut them. While 2 people are holding this in place let someone get on a step ladder and mark the top of these rafters where they cross each other at the top of the X and at the bottom of the X on BOTH pieces---take this down and use a straight edge to mark these marks---this will give you the angle you will need to cut your rafters------If you are going to run a 2x4(ridge) at the top of these rafters then when you get the lines drawn measure and cut each rafter 3/4 inch shorter(1/2 of your 2x4 thickness)off the top cuts-----double check yourself---then cut----then hold them up on your pen with a 2x4 between the rafters at the top-----if everything looks good---use these 2 rafters as a pattern to cut the rest-------then if someone wants to know WHAT ANGLE you cut them tell them The Angle That Worked. Good Luck!!

Callieslamb · #20 02/22/10, 06:52 PM

Won't the angle depend on what the angle at the top is? I am no builder - DH is an engineer and does things absolutely perfectly....ever time.......stinks huh? Here's how I would do it. Cut your top angle - put the board in place as it will be used. Lay the Bottom 2x4 beside it to mark the angle and where it will hit it.

Are you sure flat topped ones wouldn't work just as well?

We did an A-frame tractor, but bent electric conduit for the uprights rather than usingwoos. We were trying to make one that was lighter - as well as able to be taken apart and stored. DH bent a short conduit piece in an 'A' shape for the top (the legs are about 10" long. We connected the long side pieces into that "A-shaped". At the bottom, he bent the pieces so they would slide into a 2x4 on edge. So straight then a sligh bend about 8 inches from the bottom. If the pieces weren't buried under a ton of stuff, I would take a picture for you.