Buying a couple acres, how to make legal?

[mamaof3peas]

We are possibly buying 2 or 3 acres from a Mennonite farmer. I knew him prior to us asking to buy this piece, and he has always been honest and helpful. Now I'm sure he knows how to do this, but I wanted to ask u guys bc you are experienced in this. He is splitting this off a big piece of ground. So can we get by without a survey? How do we figure out what taxes for this tiny portion will be? Do i need a lawyer? Any helpful advice? Thanks!

[beaglebiz]

If he is splitting off a piece of a parcel, I think you will have to get a survey. You also need to speak to your local code officer. Here, you need a minimum 4 acres to build a home, land has to perc (you need a "septic Permit"), no mobile homes are allowed...and some other stuff. You need to know what the local ordinances are to see if this is going to work for you

[Common Tator]

We have bought directly from an owner (and sold directly to a buyer) before without realtors. We went through an escrow company. Some Title companies also do this. They know what documents are needed, they arranged a title search, provided and prepared the paperwork, notarized it and filed it with the county.

[mamaof3peas]

I have spoken to county clerk, we are so rural there are no codes whatsoever. I also spoke to a title company who said if it was flat, we could get by without a survey, if there are hills, we may have to get it surveyed, which is a couple thousand dollars. We would like to get by without a survey, if possible. What are the possible negatives of not having a survey done?

[mamaof3peas]

Tator, what did this cost?

[where I want to]

One- you want to have clear title to what you have paid for- what if he sells more and the person who buys has a dispute. It will cost a lot more to resolve a dispute than surveying now.
Two- you need to get it recorded (the deed) in your name. In our area, the deed can't be recorded without a survey.
What about the people on the other sides? Are the markers from a survey at least there?

In our county, surveying was done pretty poorly for years- it is not the least surprise that lots of different people think they own the same land while there are strips that no one seems to own. So his thoughts on what is his may be off too.

[upnorthlady]

Each state has different laws, but you don't mention if this 2 or 3 acres is going to be your homestead, or just extra land you want to buy. If it's going to be your homestead and you plan to build a home, then you will definitely have to have the land surveyed and building permits, etc. etc. Building a homestead a couple acres away from a Mennonite farmer seems kinda close for neighbors, but.......there may even be laws regarding right of way, proximity of septic system and wells and things like that.

If this is just land you are buying that is next to yours and you are buying it simply for expansion purposes, you could probably get by without a survey - for now anyway. (someday you might want one if you have kids and want them to inherit his land) One of you will need a lawyer, though. A title search has to be done, your county treasurer will figure the taxes on the land at the time of the deed recording. You also need to be sure that the land is accessible, so there might be easement rights to be determined. Also, are you paying cash or will you be getting a loan for the land? If you are getting a bank loan to buy the land, then the bank will tell you all you need to know and do a lot of the paperwork. Ask around about lawyers, though. A lawyer might be just as expensive as the 2 acres of land costs!

[wy_white_wolf]

What did the county clerk say about a survey? Here they require one to determine actually area for taxes if you are splitting on anything other than 1/4 section lines (~40 acres).

[sirquack]

You may want to do a little price shopping on the cost of a land Survey. I had my city land surveyed and it was only $400 to have it done.
You mentioned the cost being several thousand dollars and that seems outrageous to me personally.

[mamaof3peas]

Ok, we do not have to get permits to build here. I will try to describe it's layout. To the north is a county side road, to it's east is a timbered hill and then a field at the top of the hill, to the south is a timbered hill and a fiel on top, and to the west is a timbered hill and then past the timber is anther county road. Our only property borders would be with the same farmer we are buying from. He doesn't live there, he has the big field on top that he farms. He has been very forthcoming, even telling us that what we offered him for the property was overpriced and that if we wanted, he could add the timber to the west. That would be a fair market price for that land, cheaper than we could get anywhere. This little piece is sort of in a small bottom, surrounded by timber, so no visible neighbors, very pretty.

[MushCreek]

You definitely want to go through a Title company. You will get Title Insurance, which means they researched and determined that the seller is the legal owner, and that there are no liens or encumberances on the land. Otherwise, how would you know? The Title company will insist on a survey, otherwise they won't know what they are insuring. BTW, the survey on my 7 acres was about $300 3 years ago.

[Common Tator]

Originally Posted by mamaof3peas

Tator, what did this cost?

I don't remember what it cost. Sorry. I do remember thinking it was a great deal, because we saved the cost of a real estate commission. I would call around and get prices.

[mamaof3peas]

Thanks guys for being so kind, it is not a done deal, he is praying about it and talking with his wife bf he makes a decision. He said normally they wouldn't sell any of their land but this is on an edge, and doesn't get great production, bc of all the deer. So we are praying as well and trying to find out all we can right now.

[rambler]

The county will determine the taxes for you.

They often demand it is sureveyed, so that can do that. Would be rare that you don't need a survey?

Will you own 1/2 of the road as an easement, or just up to the road? Someday that will be important.... Without a deed, you don't really know. Without a survey, you can't get a deed.....

Typically there is a cost to create a new chunk of land for the county to deal with. It needs to be deeded & surveyed.

I would be _very_ scared of what I actually own without that.

A survey shouldn't cost that much.

A lawyer should be able to do the regular ppaerwork & title search for $800 or so. This typically is split close to 50-50 with the seller.

Add in the survey & creating the deed, should be no more than another $800. The buyer often pays all of this.

I'd be real uncomfortable not getting this done. You really have no proof of what you have without these steps. You could lose it all if a sibling of the farmer shows up in 5 years and says no he/she actually owns the land from grandpa.... And you have nothing in writing, nothing documented, no title search. That would be some of the best $1200-1500 you ever invested!

More and more the fedrals are requiring wetlands, septic, and wells to be regulated _their_ way, so if perhaps you feel like selling this place or leaving it to your kids some day..... It might be wise to consider what regulations are out there, and get enough land so that it can continue to be a worthwhile homestead. In my county, you need 2.5 acres to put a septic and a well. Perhaps if you think about it, that isn't a bad idea even without the rule??? Think about what a well and a septic do - how close _do_ you want them? To have bigger livestock with a dwelling, you need 5 acres. Again, think about your well, think about what livestock do.... Not such a bad idea to have the space....

Roads tend to be upgraded, and take an addtional 40 feet of right of way. If you have a tiny acreage, that 40 feet can really be a chunk, crowding what you do.....

My point is, if you are able to get 5 acres, that might make your place worth a whole lot more some day. If you can, while you have the oppertunity. Rarely will you get a chance to expand what you have. You will be stuck with the size you get, and if you want to move to something bigger, then who is going to buy your small spot?

Good deal if you can get that woods along with!

--->Paul

[1fast68]

You will have to have a servey. If it was the whole peice you wouldn't have to if the leagal description was on his deed filed with the county.

you can do a quit claim deed. in my state you have to pay less than $50 to file a quit claim deed. lawyers can print out a quit claim with all information for $100 and include the serveyed tract you are buying. The county will then determine taxes when that deed is filed. here that's $25.......about the purchace price being lower than $50, find something else to give him money for and buy that for the remainder of the land price.

[PhilJohnson]

The first place I bought was a small parcel that was split off of a large one. It was 4.68 acres. I did not use a realtor. Different jurisdictions have different rules for what is required for surveys and what is not. In my county anything under 10 acres has to be surveyed. In my case I had to get it surveyed, which ran 1300 bucks.

I think people put way too much faith and emphasis on surveys after having seen a few adverse use cases go to court. If the piece the farmer want's to sell you is next to the neighbor's fence line and everyone is okay with that boundary there shouldn't be any problems with staking property boundaries. I would definitely be more concerned if any neighbor's didn't have any fences up. Then I would get a survey for sure. Best bet would be call the county planning and zoning dept (or similar agency) and ask them if you can stake instead of survey. People on this forum can give you a hundred different answers and every single one of them could be wrong. Regulations can vary greatly from state to state, county to county, and even township to township.

I had a good lawyer guide me through the process of purchasing my property, he was well worth the 400 bucks I paid him.

Good luck

[Joshie]

You certainly want a survey. I can tell you that I've purchased a home, with a realtor, and the old owner showed me the boundary lines. Well, guess what. The old owner was wrong. Without a survey how do you know what you're buying. The gentleman selling the land is human and humans make mistakes. You need to make sure that you know what you're buying.

You also need to make certain that there's not a minimum number of acres that can be split off a larger parcel. This may be separate from code issues. Our county has a minimum because they are trying to limit the loss of farmland.

Are you planning on living on this parcel? Is there easy access to it? Will you have an easement onto your land? Well, place for septic, etc.?

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by PhilJohnson

Different jurisdictions have different rules for what is required for surveys and what is not.

That's true. The question is much too area-specific. I've lived in places where a parcel can be subdivided by affidavit and other places where the chunk of land can simply be deeded. Some areas require making application with the county to pre-approve the parcel subdivision while other don't.

Your county assessor's office should be able to tell you what what the requirements are for your county, since it's their office that keeps track of parcels.

[countrysunshine]

When we bought our land we bought it from the farm which is a corporation. We did NOT hire a survey done. We did measure and offer a legal description when the transfer was posted with the county. It says things like "Beginning 99' from the center of CR800E and continuing to 439' from the center of CR800E", etc...

We took the description and the bill of sale to the county and the county separated it out from the larger parcel for taxes and ownership.

We built a house on it (and now a garage/barn) with no permits, inspections or any other "guvment interference". It is possible still in this day and age in some parts of the country.

Our biggest problem was the electricity because they kept insisting the meter had to be mounting on the house and we kept saying no.

[mamaof3peas]

Country sunshine, that is what our county tax lady just told me. She said to go with a title/abstract company, and write out a legal description. Our electric guy said we could put the meter where we wanted.