2 Well pipe questions

fishhead · #1 02/04/10, 09:25 AM

How tight can you tighten 1 1/4" well pipe? I have snapped that size pipe when using cheater pipes on the wrenches.

I'm having trouble with my new well joints. I thought I had them pretty snug using 24" pipe wrenches but evidently not enough.

Does pump vibration loosen the joints?

I retightened 6 joints last night and lost a good inch of pipe length. I had tightened those same 6 joints pretty tight already. I used teflon tape AND pipe dope.

arabian knight · #2 02/04/10, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

How tight can you tighten 1 1/4" well pipe? I have snapped that size pipe when using cheater pipes on the wrenches.

I'm having trouble with my new well joints. I thought I had them pretty snug using 24" pipe wrenches but evidently not enough.

Does pump vibration loosen the joints?

I retightened 6 joints last night and lost a good inch of pipe length. I had tightened those same 6 joints pretty tight already. I used teflon tape AND pipe dope.

Don't use both on the same connection. And I would only use Pipe Dope, not the teflon tape.
I have always been told this. Tighten the pipe as tight as you can get it. THEN go one more turn~! That comes from my Grandpa, who was a pump installer and well driller, and my whole family is in plumbing yet to this day.

oneokie · #3 02/04/10, 10:02 AM

New pipe and fittings or used pipe and fittings?

Is this a shallow well jet pump or deep well jet pump?

If used pipe and fittings, check for defective collars and bad threads/pinholes in the threaded areas of the pipe itself.

fishhead · #4 02/04/10, 10:17 AM

All new pipe and fittings. I even used drive couplers on the vertical part of the well.

It's a shallow well jet pump.

I used 2 ten foot and 1 four foot pieces of pipe up to the tee in order to reduce the number of joints. It was only 5 degrees above zero the day I drove it with the electric driver and I'm wondering if maybe the tape and dope were too stiff.

By retightening the joints inside the house I have improved it. This morning it only took one priming instead of 6.

It looks like the pipe dope and tape would fill any cracks even if the joint wasn't eyeball popping tight.

I know the pipe can't rotate once it is hooked up but it sure seemed like the joints got looser. Can pump vibration loosen the joints?

Cascade Failure · #5 02/04/10, 10:34 AM

Solder...?

fishhead · #6 02/04/10, 10:42 AM

I know a guy that welded the joints on a well he drove. I would have done that if I had a welder and knew how to weld. I always worry about the underground joints as I retighten the drive coupler for the 50th time.

agmantoo · #7 02/04/10, 10:46 AM

Fishhead

Do you have a bladder tank on this pump? If so, you do you have a check valve between the foot valve and the bladder tank? Is so, take the check valve out. This will stop you from losing the prime as the bladder tank will keep water pressure on the down well portion of the well.

rambler · #8 02/04/10, 11:03 AM

Chineese pipe I'll guess?

I don't know about using both tape & dope - and the dope might have been affected by the cold.

Cheap pipe might be the problem.

--->Paul

fishhead · #9 02/04/10, 11:18 AM

I had someone else say that chinese pipe is causing problems.

agman,

I see what you are thinking about using the bladder tank to keep pressure on a footvalve.

I don't have a foot valve on this well. It's a sandpoint screwed onto 1 1/4" pipe with a check valve inside the house near the pump. The bladder tank sits between the pump and the faucets. It holds pressure between the check valve and the faucets fine. That's why I'm sure the problem is between the downstream side of the check valve and the sandpoint.

It seems like the joints loosened after I tightened them because I know I cranked a lot harder when I put it together than when I started to retighten them.

o&itw · #10 02/04/10, 11:53 AM

Steel contracts a lot with cold. I guess it possible that couplings put together at 5 degrees, might loosen up some where the get down into soil that is probably 55 degrees.

I really know nothing about driven wells, but if you are trying to pull water up 24 feet (single pipe setup), I suspect you are right up against the limit of a usable vaacum.

fishhead · #11 02/04/10, 12:05 PM

I hadn't thought about temperature effects on steel.

I'll check when I hook up my old well but I'm expecting that the aquifer is under pressure and static water level is less than the 24'.

At the farm my 55'-60' deep wells had static levels between 7'-11'

oneokie · #12 02/04/10, 12:11 PM

This is a dumb question but:

Did you use a backup pipe wrench when you were changing the drive collar?

fishhead · #13 02/04/10, 12:23 PM

Yes. I always used 2 wrenches except when trying to tighten the couplers that were already underground.

Do underground couplers vibrate loose at the same speed as the drive coupler? If they do it's a wonder that any of them stay tight.

Old Vet · #14 02/04/10, 07:49 PM

Look at the labile on the pipe dope and see if it has a temperature to use it at. When it is 5 degrees it will be too stiff to seat really good. I would use it heated to at least 40 degrees.

fishhead · #15 02/04/10, 10:06 PM

Ah.....read the directions.

It's too late for the joints outside. We've had several nights of -30 so the ground is like a rock for several more months. I could thaw it but I'll just wait.

Tomorrow I'm going to connect the new pump to the old well so unless the old well came apart when I was disconnecting it I should have water until I can pull the new well in April. If it did come apart I'll slip a 1" polypipe down the well pipe and hook that to the pump. I just poured a gallon of vinegar down the old well and tomorrow before I hook it up I'm going to check the water level and then shoot it with my .22.

ace admirer · #16 02/04/10, 10:28 PM

the proper method deals with hand tight turns (to test the fit of the male and female) then wrench tight a certain number of turns. i need my book from the office...sorry. the teflon or paste Should only act as a lubricant to prevent the threads from gaulding during the tightning process.

springvalley · #17 02/04/10, 11:31 PM

I would not use both dope and tape, one or the other. I have never had a pipe vibrate apart before. Thanks marc

fishhead · #18 02/05/10, 06:57 AM

Thanks for the info.

Tonight I'm going to hook up the old well and wait until spring when I can pull the new well. The new well must have a bad joint somewhere underground.

cfabe · #19 02/05/10, 07:30 AM

I've had good luck using the Teflon paste pipe dope you can get at home depot. I make sure to pack it in the threads on the male pipe with my thumb before tightening. I can't remember the last time I had a leak. I've completely given up on the Teflon tape though, that stuff never worked well for me.

fishhead · #20 02/05/10, 08:33 AM

I've noticed the teflon tape just kind of balls up on the outside as you tighten the joint. I wonder if it does the same inside the joint. If it moves it may scrape the paste out of the joint.

When I redo the well this spring I'll get some of that paste. Thanks.

I've had to resort to using blue clay to seal intake pipe joints on portable pumps at the farm. I just smeared it where the pipe met the coupler. It works fine for a temporary fix. That tells me that it shouldn't take much tightening to seal an intake joint if the paste fills the voids. The suction would pull it into any open channel in the threads.