Cattle Dog Question

[badlander]

I thought about posting this in the pet section, but since it has to do with a 'Working Dog' I thought I'd put it here.

This weekend, our two year old Australian Cattle Dog, Dingo, discovered cows.

It was like Christmas, the Fourth of July and his Birthday all rolled into one for him. I was amazed at his instinctive reaction to the small herd of beef cattle we started pasturing at Badland Farm. He insisted that they stay in a small group near their hay and if one strayed, he hustled it back to the group. We laughed our heads off at his obsession with them. If we let him out, he immediately headed out to 'guard' 'his' cows. He would lay at the edge of the woods and not take his eyes off of them for hours. He would even judge when they had had enough to drink and head them back to their feed.

He literally turned from a 'Jethro Bodine' sort of dog to a top athlete.

Is there any way to refine these instincts in him, even at two to make him a better working dog or is it too late to train him to respond to commands while he is herding? I think he has potential after watching him all weekend. At least we know that the cows are safe from predators while he is around if nothing else. I know we've never seen him happier than he was with those cows.

[PNP Katahdins]

The cows may not appreciate it, though. Dingo would be much better with some training and he's not too old. You need to be able to control him. There may be a club in your area that offers cattle dog clinics (as opposed to sheep ones).

It's neat to see a dog "turn on" and the instincts kick in, isn't it?

Peg

PS: Photos would be appreciated!

[Maura]

Two years is about the age a herding dog would begin working livestock. He needs a solid recall, down, and sit. You will need to teach him "that'll do", which means he backs off the animal(s). It is not a recall in that he is not expected to return to you. It is more of a leave it command. You also need a cue that tells him to go out to the stock. He is not allowed near the stock unless you tell him to. Right now, you are letting him decide when he is going to work the stock and you can't do that. Work him outside, with you, then let him go work the stock for a while, then call him back to you. You need to train him with the stock. First thing, I would put a twenty foot lead on him, bring him to the stock, tell him "that'll do" after a minute and pull him toward you while walking around the stock. Repeat over and over.

[cowbelle]

Ditto to what Maura said. That long line can be light - clothesline or even lighter - I've seen baling twine tied together to make it. It is just a way of being able to insist that the dog mind you. You do need a "stop" command - use whatever is natural to you. Border collie people have always used "down", and that does really enforce the stop - but the other breeds, including your Cattle Dog, are more comfortable with stopping on their feet. Some just say "stop", some use "there", Dogs don't understand English, only association, so as long as you are consistent, you can use anything. You must make the association - so don't say "stop" until the dog is stopped. That's where the line comes in handy. It is very important to only say (what will eventually be a command) when the dog is doing it. Your body language and the line will encourage him to do something, then say the word. As time goes on, you can use the word, and he will do it. Keep the line on (but be careful of him getting tangled with cows legs) until he is trustworthy to stop, come back, stop working (that'll do). Use it as insurance. If there is a working dog club in your area, or someone that uses dogs, you will learn far more than trying to train a working dog from books or video. There are so many variables, and timing is so important, that you can make or break a dog without knowing it. A good working dog is invaluable, but must have a turn-on and turn-off switch, as the others have said. THere are many books out there, and videos, but a person who knows what they are doing is far better. Ask at your feed store or sales yard.

[badlander]

I appreciate the suggestions and think the first thing to do is teach him the 'stop' command as at the moment, the minute he hits the back door, he's streaking down the pasture to guard 'his' cows. I've never seen a 50 pound dog slide through a barbed wire fence as fast as this guy can when he sees bovines.

Yeah, I'm sure the poor beefs were saying, 'whew, he's finally gone' when we had to head back to town for our work commute.

Right now, I'm looking for a cattle dog clinic in our area that we could attend this summer. At the moment I'm holding out for spring.

[Lyra]

I used to have a cattle dog. Great dogs.

Definately train him. As they age, cattle dogs can get bored if not worked or exercised and can become aggressive and/or destructive. Again they are great dogs, but built for a purpose.

[haypoint]

I borrowed a training tape for Border Collies. There were commands for circling clockwise and counter-clockwise, "come by" and "Away to me". "Stay" is another important command. You have to have your dog trained to stop and come to you first. I think if you got one that discovered chasing was fun and you couldn't get him to stop or come, you'd have a useless dog on your hands.

I'd throw up my right arm and start to circle the livestock and the dog would go counter clockwise. Then I'd throw up a left arm and walk to the left and the dog would circle clockwise. I'd use the command each time, until she made the connection between the command and the direction.

We did the first training for about a half hour.
The next day we did more training. I held up my right arm, walked to the right and yelled "Away to me", but she started going clockwise. I was about to scold her, when I realized I had the commands backwards in my head. She remembered.

[badlander]

Do you have any idea where your borrowed training tape originated from? I would love to find one for an ACD but so far I'm coming up with nothing on either ebay or amazon.com.

I'm thinking about contacting the Cattle Dog Association and see if they have one. I'm having problems finding a clinic near where we live and may have to wind up doing this ourselves.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

I cant relate to the experince of a cattle dog, however, STOP was the first command I taught my great dane, even before she knew her name.
I wanted immediate control before she got too big to handle. good thing too, since she turned out to be a people biter.

If I yell STOP. she drops into a down stay. works at a distance 95% of the time. dogs are beligerant at times. we practice. she's old these days.

the stop command saved my daughter once. we were walking the dog down a city street, and my daughter, then maybe 8 years old wanted to walk her. the street was deserted, so I let her. a few minutes went by, and a squirrel dashed across our path. Of course she immediately gave chased. we showed pitbulls for many years, and in the course of that, I taught her to NEVER under any circumstance let go of the leash.

well, she didnt, and meat drug her down the sidewalk, into someones yard and through the bushes. this all happened in about 3 seconds. I yelled MEAT STOP! and lo and behold, she did, right on someones front porch, and laid down. and my poor daughter. she never let go.

moral of the story..STOP, in my opinion, is the most valuable command you can teach any dog, and if you teach him nothing else, teach him to stop.