Alpacas - X post from Sheep forum

[Minelson]

I'm hoping you can help me out...I was talking with my mom. She wants to get in the Alpaca business and she wants to keep them here at our homestead since she lives in AZ in a retirement community. She wants me to do everything. She just wants to finance it and split the profit if there ever is any. My mom is always scheming so this doesn't surprise me. She wanted to do Emu's once a long time ago. She was successful with breeding Main Coon cats for many years. Anyhoo...with the economy so bad she says a lot of breeders have gone out of business so now would be a good time to get into it.
I know nothing about Alpacas. We certainly have the room. Our homestead is on 10 acres and we have many outbuildings. We currently have 2 horses, 3 goats, 9 chickens, 8 cats and 3 dogs. I am an animal lover and all our critters are pets. My mom thinks it would be nice for us to have something that would bring in an income. Is this feasible? I need to do some research and don't know where to begin. So if you have any tips let me know!

[arabian knight]

WOW,,,,,, Run, don't walk, away from that deal. Especially in todays economic setting.
Sure you can make a few bucks selling Alpaca wool. Hard work to say the least. And spinning it into yarn is time consuming at best if you can't find a buyer for "bulk" wool.
BUT the investment is HUGE and the ONLY way, let me repeat that, The ONLY Way to make money on Alpacas, is By Selling, and Setting UP others into having Alpacas~!.
Sort of like a pyramid like deal. Not really, But Close to that, as you Have to Sell 2 Animals at time, and that is to Potential Breeders, and setting them up in "business like you are.
Now I am not sure what the Currant prices are for Breeding Quality Alpacas is but a good breeding female was around $10,000 Now you would want GOOD Breeding Stock also.
and as they are not currently being Imported at the moment, the currant Alpaca breeders can ask pretty much the sky is the limit for a good quality animal.
Sure you can get a 'pet Quality male a Gelded One at that for around 1K But that is not the what you want to do to make money off them now is it?

[littlesheeps]

Minelson; first off, I don't have alpacas. I can tell you what I have seen and think, tho... free and friendly advice, for what it's worth! I have shetlands and angora goats. Being in the fiber biz, I do know several farms around here with alpacas. I believe they are a bit more delicate than a llama, perhaps more stand-offish. You'll also need to have a stanchion to put them in to trim hooves and teeth... and better find a shearer in your area before you get them, too, unless you plan to do this yourself. Also, do you have a vet in your area that can treat camelids??? They're not goats! In pricing them, she may find some bargains now with the market way down; I'd look into geldings, which will be cheaper, unless you want to go into the breeding biz and sell livestock (good luck with that). Still, you really need to know what you're doing with these things to compete at those $20+K prices... go to shows, and constant marketing and PR. You/your mom will never sell enough fiber to cover the cost of the animal. And unless, there again, you are planning to process that fiber yourself, much of the fiber is sent to a co-op for processing. What you get back will usually not be from your animals. That would be a deal breaker for me!

I hope someone with alpaca-ese chimes in here and corrects me on all this! Really, I'd try to talk her out of it, but if she were dead-set on camelids, look into llamas... not as fine a fiber, but very versatile, good livestock guardians, too. Like the emu biz, a few 'packys would be good if you could follow through with it all, but a large investment in them is risky. littlesheeps in NM

[littlesheeps]

Arabian Knight... you said the words I was searching for, "pyramid scam"! littlesheeps in NM

[Katey]

Breeding animals of any sort is a whole different can of worms from having pets. You have to be prepared to cull, ruthlessly, any animals that aren't up to standard. You have to pay through the nose for documented vet care, if you can even find a vet who will deal with exotic animals. You will want either really good (expensive) fencing or really good (expensive) insurance to protect your really good (expensive) breeding stock.

Many (though not all) people who breed exotic animals do it to generate a tax deduction through being able to claim farm expenses. The animals themselves don't generate a positive cash flow, but the breeders come out ahead financially because of the reduced (not eliminated) cost of improvements to their farm and a possible reduction in property taxes. You might benefit from these things, depending on your financial situation, but your mother never would.

If you're serious about this you should spend the time to develop a five-year business plan in consultation with a tax lawyer and a financial planner, to see if this makes sense for you.

Are there many alpaca breeders in South Dakota? If not, why not? There is a reason that many breeders have gone out of business lately.

[kyweaver]

There are lots of alpaca breeders near here in Kentucky. None of the ones I know make any profit. They can't sell the animals, they can't sell the wool to bulk merchants, and there are very few handspinners. As one of those spinners, one of these breeders GIVES me the wool (and high-quality wool it is) in return for discounts on my yarn.

However, most of them love their animals and love breeding them, but they also have other sources of income.

[65284]

Tell mom to take her money and go to Vegas and gamble for a week, she will probably make more money than she will with Alpacas. In fact she has a (slim) chance to win something gambling, she has O chance of making money on Alpacas. That busisness is a sucker hustle who's time is long past. That's my honest opinion and I dealt in exotics for many years.

[WeaverRose]

The alpaca "business" is like the pot belly pig scam, the ostrich/emu scam, and the pet rock scam. Why does your mom think that "with the economy so bad a lot of breeders have gone out of business"? Cause there ain't no durn money in it, that's why.

Suggestion: she could give her excess $$$ to a worthy cause, and take the tax write-off.

[Jyllie63]

Michele...I PM'd you . As an alpaca owner I of course disagree with most everything said here .

[Darren]

All I needed to know about alpacas I found out when I learned folks didn't eat them.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Just a couple Questions since I know nothing about Alpaca's at all but was curious as to why folks raise them if there is no money to be made in them?

Also if your basically just selling the wool to buyers & breeding stock for new folks would it be better to get into some kind of sheep instead for the same reason only then they are dual purpose, meat & fiber? Better money to be made & maybe easier to care for & handle? Vet bill's & exspenses all around?

[springvalley]

Hi all. I found it interesting to hear of all the 'advice' you've gotten here, some from folks that aren't in the industry. Isn't that like getting advice on a bass boat from someone that only owns a motorcycle? We ARE in the alpaca industry, but we are also diversified in our livestock as we don't like to put all our eggs in one basket. We call it our 'diversified stock portfolio'. We've been in the alpaca industry for 13 years. Yes, you can buy the best of the best and be in it strictly for the breeding and showing end. Yes, you can buy some gelded males for pasture pets. Yes, you can buy anywhere in between.

Alpacas are our easiest livestock to raise. If you can take care of a dog, you can take care of an alpaca. Other than worming and routine shots, they don't require any vet work; well, no more than Fido does. They don't need fancy/expensive fencing. We have woven wire fencing. Same stuff you use for cattle or other livestock. Alpacas are the easiest on our fencing. We have ours in three-sided sheds all winter, and it snows a lot here in IL. They're raised in the Andies Mountains with canyons for protection against the elements. They don't require any special feed either. Grassy hay is the best whereas some animals need the higher priced alfalfa. We do give them a mineral block, but then we do that for all our animals. If you handle your alpacas, you can trim their feet and shear them while they stand still. If you just leave them out in the field, like sheep, you'll have to restrain them in some manner to shear them. They are not 'fragile' animals. They are also the most gentle critters on our farm. They each have personalities, likes and dislikes, as most animals and people do.

We shear our own alpacas on a shearing table. This is easy on the back. We shear our sheep by flipping them on their backs and bending over them. Ouch if you have a lot of them. Alpaca fiber doesn't have lanolin in it like sheep wool does; some people are alergic to wool or the lanolin in it. It's also the warmest fiber as it has a hollow core for dead air space. We sell our fiber to local hand spinners. We spin some ourselves. And we send some to local small fiber mills to be made into roving, felt and yarn. Very reasonably done and we DO get our own fiber back. This way we can also make blends of alpaca and merino (sheep). We then sell our yarns to local weavers, knitters, and other crafters. We also make some finished products, like scarves, to sell or give as gifts. We make enough on our fiber products to pay for their keep. Even in this economy.

Yes, the economy is down and, like stock that is down, now IS a good time to buy, IF alpacas are the right fit for you. You need to know what your game plan is. Do you want to sell breeding stock? Do you want to do the show circuit? Do you want to deal with shearing? Is your 'marketing plan' simply to take them to the local sale barn?

If you want to talk more, PM me, or come for a visit.
Catherine
p.s. Yes, you CAN eat alpaca. That's what they eat in Peru and I've even seen an article about it here in the US, too.

[tnokie]

I agree with the others. It was a fad like pigs ,emus,ostriches. It was a breeders market. Now in my area<middle Tn., there are lots for sale and they are going for only a couple of hundred. And I've seen lots of signs (Alpaca Farm ,signs)where the yuppie rich kids went into business ,that are now closed with no aplacas on the place. I would be real hesitant unless you just want to raise an exotic animal have a local market for such.

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by springvalley

Hi all. I found it interesting to hear of all the 'advice' you've gotten here, some from folks that aren't in the industry. .

I may not have been in the Alpaca business, but I know people that are, and I also have been on many a Alpaca Message board over the years.
And most of what has been posted is pretty much the truth. Oh some make it sure, but to start out from scratch in this day in age is not really recomended. Being a "closed breed" where none being imported, you have to keep buying from others and sell to others to get them in Alpacas to make money. That can not be disputed. it is a very small market also that you are selling too. If not having the best animals for breeding, to showing, you are not going to make it. period. Showing quality and Breeding quality animals are very pricey, and that can not be disputed either. And you must do both if you are going to make a living with raising Alpacas. Even Llamas are going out of style.
2 Llamas close to me have closed up. And yes I have one Alpaca farm 10 miles from me but they do many other things to make money at more then just Alpacas.
So you see I am not one that is just running off at the mouth about Alpacas.
Also for years i was a member of the Southwest Llama Association.

[Common Tator]

25 years ago Llamas were the popular animal with much the same dynamics as the alpaca industry. Llamas were a closed breed too, until the government changed their mind and allowed Llamas to be imported. The bottom fell out of the Llama industry and the breeders lost their shirts. Suddenly you couldn't GIVE them away. No, I didn't own Llamas. My Mom did.

[Callieslamb]

I just "got into" llamas. There may not be much money in them the way I am doing it (none, in fact) ...it all kind of depends on what you are getting into it for. I would look into the Llama/alpaca industry in MY area. What sells, what doesn't? How do those that are making money actually make money?

I would also be very careful about the partnership issues. A silent partner doesn't often stay silent. I would want my partner, even if it were my mother, to really know the business if they were going to be giving any advice. And I wouldn't take money from someone for a business if they didn't understand the business either. That would be more my question than the money end of it FOR NOW. Learn all you can about alpacas. Visit other alpaca farms - before you leap. As for the money - people used to make money selling pet rocks. That would tell me that, with the right strategies, money can be made from just about anything. Many people buy alpacas and llamas just for pets (like they do horses and dogs. I think llamas and alpacas need less care and eat less tan either). Don't overlook that market.

[springvalley]

We raise a lot of different animals here. One common thread independent of critter breed is that the real money is in the breeding. Take horses, for example. You can either have a family pet or pay millions for registered Thoroughbred race horses that win at the Derby. Like Arabian Night says, you have a limited market. You can't expect the big bucks if you don't either enter the horses in races or market their bloodlines and the horses in those bloodlines that win. Same goes for Mineature horses, Jersey or Angus Cows, Corriedale Sheep, Draft horses, Boar goats, Fancy chickens, or even homing pigeons, you name it...... You need to know your market and how to advertise or cater to their needs. Is your product meeting those needs, whether it's prime rib, leg of lamb, breeding stock, winning tickets at the races or fiber. Then look at the return on investment. If it takes more money to feed and take care of the animal than you get for its products, then it's going to be a loosing proposition. Keep in mind that markets are constantly changing, too. Our milk prices that we get from the milk company has gone in the tank recently but we've raised our milk prices for the milk we sell privately with no qualms from our customers.
Bottom line? Do your math. Find out what animal meets your goals. Determine what your expenses would be and what your income would be. Subtract the two and see if it's worth the effort. For us, alpacas were a great investment. It takes very little effort to raise them. They are hardy, eat very little for their size, and have multiple ways of earning an income. They are easy on the land and very gentle. If I would spend just as much to care for an alpaca as I would from, say a goat, then if I could make more from selling the offspring of an alpaca as I could from some goat kids, then I think it would be worth the effort for the return of investment. Sure, you can sell the kids at the sale barn whereas it takes more effort to sell the alpaca, but alpaca prices haven't dropped to $25 each as yet. And you still have their fiber to sell. Even on a very poor day we make much, much more on our alpaca fiber than we do on our sheep wool.
No matter what you 'get into' do your homework. Visit as many farms as you can. Learn their pros and cons. Perhaps you'll find the critter that is right for you is German Giant Angora Rabbits! Good luck.
Catherine
p.s. Does anyone eat horses?

[Minelson]

Thanks for all the responses I just want to mention that this is not endeavor to make a living on at all. And like I said in my op, my mom is retired. My mom does do a lot of knitting so she may be interested in going the "fiber" route. I'm just an animal lover and enjoy the heck out of all my critters.

[Callieslamb]

If you want to 'do' fiber- alpacas are a great bet! Look at alpaca fleeces to buy on line and you will see what I mean. Then, you can look at what sheep fleece blends well with alpaca and there you go.....

I am going to blend finnshep with llama. Then, I hope later to get a different breed of sheep to blend in also. Fleece sales are a totally different world than animal sales. Do some googling and you will see the possibilities. There is a discussion group on the Spin-Off website that is pretty active.

[kyweaver]

I absolutely love alpaca wool. It is what I learned to spin on, and it is my favorite fiber. So soft and silky, yet strong. I can only spin so fast, though, and I use about 3 fleeces a year. That amount could make you profitable on a hobby level, but not as a living.