 |
|
01/17/10, 09:33 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,111
|
|
|
Electric fence...Your opinion/experience solar vs main
I've been afraid of electric fencing......fire hazard fear mostly~ but also a complete fear of running electric and doing it "Wrong" (back to that fire hazard fear I guess). But I've finally admitted I'm going to have to go with electric fence. If nothing else just to keep the goats and pigs from destroying my field fencing......and now that I have two horses to keep them from pushing the tops of the field fence down trying to get to the grass on the other side (which is ALWAYS greener.....apparently even in January).
So~ I really think I NEED electric fencing
And I'm afraid of it.
Let me tell you my situation and then you can give me your opinions and experiences please.
I've got 25 acre divided up into three pastures and the house area.. The house~ with the electricity~ is in the MIDDLE...at least 70 feet from the CLOSEST pasture~ more like 100 to 150 feet (across the gravel drive way) from the furthest pasture. The two lower wooded pastures are about 5 acre each. Each is "Finished" with field fencing that the goats are steadily destroying scratching themselves on and the pigs pretty much just push under anytime suits them. These ARE wooded pastures and falling trees are always a concern. I walk the fence line after every storm looking for down trees that may need to be cut off the fence line. The upper pasture is about 10 acre~ fenced in 5 wire barbed wire...haven't put field fence up on it yet and if I go electric I may not...no trees at ALL in that pasture. I've got the three pastures connected with a gate between each pasture into the one next to it, and one gate to the middle (where the house is) from each. There is a break where the long drive way pulls up to the street between one of the lower wooded pastures and the upper cleared pasture.
So~
Is solar a good option for me?
I'd like to go solar because for some reason it feels less dangerous to me........(thats stupid isn't it?)
And I'm afraid to run the electric to the fence for all three pastures
I'd like to go "Main" because if I do that then it's more reliable (I've heard but don't know thats true)
And I could then also plug in livestock tank deicers in the winter (in Alabama~ not usually a big deal but so far this year I have had to haul water to the animals on 14 different days and I HATE COLD......I could deal with it if I had too though......which was my ORIGINAL plan before I decided I had to have electric fence to keep the livestock from DESTROYING the fences I've put so much time and money in the last two years on!)
So~
What are YOUR thoughts and experiences on electric fences~ solar chargers vs running electric out to the fence line at a bit of distance.............
Any thoughts appreciated
Thanks so much!
|
01/17/10, 10:41 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Zone 7
Posts: 10,540
|
|
|
I have strung more than 100,000 feet of the high tensile 12 1/2 gauge wire. I have had a number of energizers from various sources. The energizers have been powered by battery, solar and mains. Mains energizers are the cheapest to buy and to maintain. I do not like the battery powered units because of having to recharge the batteries. Of the solar units I have had both the 6 and 12 volt units. A 6 volt unit has to low output to suit me. The 12 volt works fine. I now use only ParMak energizers. They are made in the USA and they offer the best warranty. The price is far less than the brand named imported units. The new designed energizers are not the fire hazards that the old units were. I have had the new design versions for at least 14 years and I have never seen a burned area anywhere near the fence. I do not see any dead birds or other animals. Buy the good wire referenced above and get good insulators and your fence problems will be behind you. Get as good a charger as your budget will permit. A fair mains powered energizer will be above $100 and expect to pay about $250 for a top of the line domestic sourced unit. The good solar will be above $250
__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!
Last edited by agmantoo; 01/17/10 at 10:43 PM.
|
01/18/10, 12:20 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,570
|
|
|
I own both, solar & mains (plug-in).
There has been a plug-in electric fencer running 99% of the days for the past - oh 55 years? It has been located in the corn crib most of those years. It's like any other appliance, it just sits there and works. Has less parts in it than your toaster or radio, so probably safer. The only real danger is lightening hitting your fence & the blast coming down the wire into your building. they have lightening arrestors for that, & are a good idea. Never had one here. Had a wooden post blown apart by lightening, the fencer was toasted, but caused no fire.
So - you're just kinda scared of something you are not familiar with is all???
But, that's cool.
The solar models cost more, don't put out as much juice, but they work pretty good. You can go either way.
The plug-im model would be the better option if you only get one, and can run a wire to the fencer from somewhere you have electricity.
The solar will work, but it's a bit more money & fuss, and won't cover near as many miles of wire as a plugin model could. They are more portable tho, don't need a plug in anywhere near.
You do need a very good ground rod(s) with either - that is the #1 reason people have troubles with electric fencers. No just onto a steel fence post or 2 is not good enough. You need a deep 6 or 8 foot ground rod - probably 2-3. You need to get down deep intot he ground to let the electrons get from there to here. Really.
--->Paul
|
01/18/10, 06:35 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NW GA
Posts: 227
|
|
|
I use a parmak solar charger with the 2 inch wide tape and have no complaints or issues. When a tree or a limb comes down on the tape it just needs to be tightened up a little - never breaks.
|
01/18/10, 06:50 AM
|
 |
Family Jersey Dairy
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,773
|
|
|
I have used both, right now solar because the fence is so far from electric. I have no problem with it it has one heck of a jolt (trust me I know) Now one other option you could try is a buried underground wire from your fencer out to the pasture, I have done this and it will work, but you need to use underground wire. That could be costly but not real bad. either way you want to go should and will work, don`t be affraid of them. Thanks Marc.
__________________
Our Diversified Stock Portfolio: cows and calves, alpacas, horses, pigs, chickens, goats, sheep, cats ... and a couple of dogs... 
http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com
|
01/18/10, 07:01 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 16,408
|
|
|
I was afraid of elec also. I didn't understand it and wasn't sure I could put it up correctly. I was more worried about animals getting out than anything else. After several - and I do mean several- trips to the local feed store and the most patient helper there getting quite frustrated with me.....I decided I needed to just try. And it works just fine. I have elec available so I didn't consider using solar. Since I have pasture and no one else around me does, the animals aren't tempted to leave for greener grass. We have loved it. Only problem was the plug was near the water trough location. When fooling around, the calves unplugged it several times. Oh well, they never noticed. I only have one strand of the 'rope' style wire. This year I am switching to high tensile probably 4-5 wires with 2 electrified. I will have sheep and llamas. I know the elec doesn't really work well on those animals, but perhaps the number of wires will.
Just try it. I think you will find that it isn't that complicated. Where you buy your supplies should have specific instructions. (we only use 1 ground rod rather than the recommended 3 since we only have 500 feet of elec fence).
|
01/18/10, 07:38 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: south central KY 75 miles SSE of Louisville
Posts: 1,358
|
|
|
We put in 6-strand high tensile when we got this place. There had been electric at the barn at some point, but rather than redo we went with the solar charger. Its only going around maybe 8-9 acres, but yes solar will put a nice jolt into you (I hate weedeating the fence....I tend to shock myself at least once or twice each time I clean the fenceline.
Yeah, electric doesnt work the greatest with really fuzzy critters, but all it takes is for their noses or something that is not quite so insulated with hair to touch that electrified fence once or twice....they tend to catch on quick.
__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!
|
01/18/10, 09:31 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,111
|
|
|
I REALLY appreciate everyones thoughts on this. Thank you so much for the input. I'm thinking some more and will be back with more questions very soon~ I've changed my mind between Main, solar and battery at least 12 times today alone.......so obviously I need to think a little more before I know what more questions to ask. Meanwhile I wanted y'all to know how very much I appreciate all the thoughts and advice so far. Thank you~ I'm still in a quandary but I have some real world experience to think on thanks to all of you.
|
01/18/10, 10:02 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,570
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl aka JM
I've changed my mind between Main, solar and battery at least 12 times today alone.......
|
Main is the simplest way & gives the best bang for the buck. But - you need a source of electrity somewhere nearby.
Solar works well, but it is costly.
Battery is a pain in the rear, but if you can't afford a solar unit & you don't have electricity available it's what you're left with.
Pretty easy to decide what fits your needs?
Don't buy the cheapest/low powered unit. You want it to really zap the critter, so they remember it & respect it. The ratings on the box talk about 2 mile, 10 mile, etc. - that is the rating for when it is practically worthless! You want a good strong one that goes for 50 miles of wire. If you spend the money, spend it for something worthwhile..... Solar or battery are typically much lower Jule rating, the mains setup is more impressive.
The shock from an electric fence is much like static electricity you get from crossing a rug - very high volts, almost no amps. Gets your attention, but no chance of fire or anything like that, if that is the part that is bothering you?
--->Paul
|
01/19/10, 03:56 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 154
|
|
|
Been using solar w/ 2" tape for years; I have to whack the weeds down every so often so the fence doesn't short out, but we've only had one problem-- a deer crashed the fence and took out a section, so the horses got out. Once we caught them and repaired the section, the boys knew better than to try to bulldoze their way out again.
As a matter of fact, there's several places now where we just string the 2" tape and don't hook it up. The boys don't challenge it at all. I wouldn't do it where they could get out of our property, but for interior subdivision, it works just fine.
__________________
"Never underestimate the power of a really good horse sneeze..."
|
01/21/10, 06:15 AM
|
 |
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mountains of Vermont, Zone 3
Posts: 8,837
|
|
AC is my choice. Solar is more expensive to buy and to run amazingly. Batteries need replacing. The charger and solar panel units don't last forever. More importantly the AC give a much greater zap for your dollar and a heck of a lot more than the solar.
Just run fence wire out to where you want it.
Cheers
-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
__________________
SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids
|
01/21/10, 08:15 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Zone 7
Posts: 10,540
|
|
|
A separate circuit is unnecessary. A fence charger uses only a minute amount of power. Just a few cents per month to power it.
If the pastures are contiguous I see no reason for multiple chargers. I power the entire perimeter of the farm plus the paddocks intermittently off a single charger. The cattle cannot be but in one area at a time so that is the area energized. I have one major feed wire that is about a mile long that connects to the fence charger and that run is always electrified. I then energize the fences where the cattle are located off that long run. This keeps the fence much hotter and reduces the amount of wire subject to carry lightning back to the charger itself. I have a fence disconnect that I use to turn the power off where I enter the pasture. Once the cattle get conditioned to being contained with an energized fence you can leave the power off for many hours and they will still respect the fence.
I personally do not like an underground feed for powering the fence as there is the possibility and probability of a short to ground at some point. I would connect the charger to the nearest mains power to the fence and then run a single stand of hot wire to the fence using the high tensile wire and regular fence posts with insulators. Remember that most chargers need a shelter to keep rain/wet off them. With some planning you should be able to power the fence from an existing source and not spend a lot of money and yet have a properly functioning setup.
__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!
Last edited by agmantoo; 01/21/10 at 08:28 AM.
|
01/21/10, 10:52 AM
|
 |
I love South Dakota
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 5,261
|
|
|
Unless your pastures are quite a distance from each other, there should be no reason to get multiple charges - just get one big enough to handle them all. We have used both solar and AC, and so do plenty of people around here. The consensus is pretty much use AC if you can, and solar if you can't. We have had problems with too many days without sunshine and having our solar charger go dead. It also didn't have the capacity to be a "weed burner" so took a lot more line maintence to keep weeds down. We have horses and they don't test the fence much so even if it wasn't actually hot for a few weeks they never seemed to notice - the deer do a number on the fence whether it is hot or not. I think they get use to crawling under the fence most of the year and then when the antlers get big in the fall they catch them on the fence. Almost all of my badly messed up hot lines have been dragged INSIDE the pasture. Not fun when they rip off a dozen insulators and drag the wire way in the pasture before they stretch it enough for the wire to break.
Cathy
|
01/21/10, 11:33 AM
|
 |
de oppresso liber
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,900
|
|
|
A couple of things to remember/think about; how reliable is the electrical system in your area? Its about 5 seconds from the time the power goes out and the critters know the fence is off (ok longer than that but it seems that way). So if you have a power system that goes out for a couple of hours every time there is a strong wind you might want to look into a solar unit.
__________________
Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!
Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett
|
01/21/10, 04:19 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,570
|
|
I would assume your pastures are connected, or how would you get critters to rotate between them.
I would _much_ prefer one stronger fencer over 3 in most cases. What is the resoning for wanting 3 fencers located in the same garage? You might have a good reason, just asking. 
If you have that remore of a fencing setup, perhaps one solar unit would be good for the farthest pasture, and a plug-in one for the closer?
You can use any outlet to run the fencer. If you don't have a good ground rod setup, there may be a tad bit of static on that circut - as in, an am radio might pick up the static buzz. So, such things might not enjoy sharing the same circut; but in general there is no need to repwire.
Do you have any older neighbor farmer types, that you could talk this over with? It seems you are making this too hard, or over thinking some part of all this. I don't mean that as a put down; just something you aren't familiar with and sometimes a few years of experience in the field beats a whole lot of book reading.
If you are running wire from the fencer unit out to the pasture, you can use the same fence wire, on insulators, or you can burry insulated wire to get it out of the way. You do need good insulation to burry it, as the very high voltages wil find ittle breaks in 'regular' insulated wire. I'm not sure of really what you are looking to do here.
--->Paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl aka JM
|
|
01/21/10, 05:39 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,111
|
|
|
Let me see if I can find one of the prints we got when we had a property dispute showing the way the property is laid out and post it up. That will help. It is possible I'm overthinking ~ re-inventing the wheel as it were. I'm not sure exactly how long my fence run is though~ and basically I need to do pretty much the entire perimeter of 25 acre and then the cross fencing. So I was thinking one charger would not be able to handle that much unless I went with one of those $800 units. I was looking today at a Parmak range master that says it does 100 miles for about $250 today and wondering if that would be big enough to do the entire property and cross fencing with 3 or 4 strands~ but like I said I'm just not sure exactly how many miles/feet my fence line really is and I know I've heard that the "Miles" indicators on the chargers are over estimates.
I guess if nothing else I could go out there with my 25 ft tape and just count how many feet I actually have~ multiply that by 4 and then see how many miles that is.
I gotta find one of those surveys..........
|
01/21/10, 10:49 PM
|
 |
Thats Strawberry, my girl
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: A country boy can survive! Hank Williams JR
Posts: 257
|
|
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...023321525.html
if I understood this right and added it up the same way,you are looking at the perimeter being 4,174 linear feet per run of wire. If your area is square,, if it is freaky shaped like ours it could differ. But still close enough for buckshot.
Less than a mile one time around. So a 100 mile fencer is plenty for the distance, just be sure it has the heat!
I have a plug in 35 mile fencer that is a joke only running 3 acres. I just got a used one from a old barn that has a 'chopper' installed on the side (weed cutter). This unit is probably 30 years old and will knock you down.
It got me thru a 'damp' not wet, heavy corhart coat a few weeks ago while ducking under it. I use 1/2" ribbon tape so the contact is not that great. My fear of a fire is so small that it is not even a thought in my mind. I just pray this baby never gets hit by lightning and I would loose it. Gotta get a lightning prophylactic!
I also use a 6 D cell battery charger for the horse and mule, I have them over at a neighbors pasture ( 2+ acres) with step in posts/ 1/2" ribbon tape. And horse fence (not mine) wire for the other half (kinda borrowing it) LOL,,(not hooked in to the charger. it is a half and half kinda thing. That little charger I bought from Flea-bay cost like $20 bucks,,,, DEAL! It has been great for portable paddocks, some days I don't turn it on at all. When it stays on 24/7 dollar tree batts last 4-6 weeks non stop if there are no weeds touching it.
$3.00 a month,, Horses totally respect its authority!
Last edited by columbia,sc; 01/21/10 at 10:58 PM.
|
01/21/10, 11:08 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Whiskey Flats(Ft. Worth) , Tx
Posts: 8,711
|
|
.............Use the bottom wire on your existing fence , be it bobwire Or field fence , as the Ground wire !! Drive a ground rod about every 200 to 300 feet , take a 8 foot ground rod and cut it in half and 2 ground rods . The more ground rods the Better your fence will work !
...............Run atleast 2 strands of your Hot wire and Offset them from the main fence by about 5 feet or so , so you can mow the strip to keep the weeds down , or make it wider if you mow with a brush hog on a tractor . This way you prevent the animals from slowly destroying the existing perimeter fence . Just remember , the further away you get from the high voltage source the lower the voltage is going to be because of the resistance of the wire . You can offset this effect somewhat by adding as many ground rods as you can afford .
.................IF , you have problems with rock , i.e. , you can't drive a ground rod down to about 3 feet deep , the next best solution is too dig a Horizontial ditch as deep as you can get and lay the ground rod in the ditch , flat . It will still work , just Not as well as having them driven vertically . BE SURE and mark All "Buried" ground rods for further reference . , fordy 
|
01/22/10, 12:55 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
Posts: 7,570
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordy
.............Use the bottom wire on your existing fence , be it bobwire Or field fence , as the Ground wire !! Drive a ground rod about every 200 to 300 feet , take a 8 foot ground rod and cut it in half and 2 ground rods . The more ground rods the Better your fence will work !
|
In my experience, one long deeper ground rod is quite a bit better than a couple of short ones. It hits deeper water.
But, that can be a 'here' thing, so many of these things are related to the local ground & climate conditions. Not saying your way is wrong either.
--->Paul
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Rate This Thread |
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 AM.
|
|
