Why did hot water radiator heating go out of favor?

[stef]

This is just out of curiosity.

The best, most even heat I've ever enjoyed was six years ago when I lived in an apartment building heated with those old iron hot water radiators.

The thermostat was in the basement and only the maintainance man had access to it. But, oh, it was so wonderfully, consistently warm in my place.

Did that type of heating go out of use for some mechanical reason? Or was it because the newer heating systems did a better job? (Although I couldn't vouch for that, after having luxuriated in the aformentioned heat.)

stef

[cider]

Good question and I await the answers.
My Dad has hot water radiators that run along the bottom of the walls in his house. Lovely warm heat and quiet.
Why are they not used as much anymore?
We have a heat pump and I hate the noisy, cold thing!

[arabian knight]

Because of so inefficient they were.
So what took their place was Baseboard heat. Both hot water and electric. Way more efficient and way more even heat throughout the entire room.

[stef]

Arabian Knight...

this is not to be argumentative, but I've experienced all kinds of heat forms...electric baseboard, forced air gas furnace, wall-mounted propane heat, electric space heaters, wood burners, fire-place inserts, pellet burning stoves, but nothing comes close to the consistent and even heat these iron steam/hot water heaters gave forth.

I wonder if they went out of favor because people just did not like the looks of them in the modern houses?


stef

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by Stef

Arabian Knight...

this is not to be argumentative, but I've experienced all kinds of heat forms...electric baseboard, forced air gas furnace, wall-mounted propane heat, electric space heaters, wood burners, fire-place inserts, pellet burning stoves, but nothing comes close to the consistent and even heat these iron steam/hot water heaters gave forth.

I wonder if they went out of favor because people just did not like the looks of them in the modern houses?


stef

Well for one thing they were HOT and dangerous.
I have a cousin that fell up against one and was burned very badly, and still bares the scares of it yet today.
And my family being in the plumbing and heating area, the baseboard hot water heat is the best years ago and still is in modern homes yet today even being used on This Old House because of how efficient and even heat they were and because of how easy it is to "Zone" heat many different rooms.

[rambler]

I very much disagree with AK this time around.

There are 2 reasons they went out of favor.

They take up space in a room - like another piece of furniture. Baseboards use less room, and cost less with less iron in them. Cheaper, & more useable square fottage....

But the biggest reason:

Air conditioning. Easy to do with forced air unit, can't do with water-based units.

I have radiators, and I have been in houses with forced air. The cast iron radiators with a hot water furnace are the best in a cold climate, very even, quiet, and less dust system. Come in from a gold day, and sit on the radiator, or have your gloves & shoes warming on a radiator - The best!

But you can't have central air very easily. So dead duck.

--->Paul

[Bonnie L]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

So what took their place was Baseboard heat. Both hot water and electric. Way more efficient and way more even heat throughout the entire room.

My dad would disagree. He put electric baseboard heaters in the living room & all bedrooms of our new house back in the early 60s. He eventually ripped them out because they were expensive to use & inefficient. He replaced them with 1 wood stove in the living room that heated the whole house.

I don't know about hot water baseboard heaters, but the electric ones are a fire hazard. A piece of paper or clothing carelessly tossed down can start a house fire.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Well for one thing they were HOT and dangerous.
I have a cousin that fell up against one and was burned very badly, and still bares the scares of it yet today.
And my family being in the plumbing and heating area, the baseboard hot water heat is the best years ago and still is in modern homes yet today even being used on This Old House because of how efficient and even heat they were and because of how easy it is to "Zone" heat many different rooms.

You are thinking of steam heat, AK. They use the big radiators too, but boiler systems use just hot water, not actually boiling.

Radiators work well with hot water systems - and don't get that hot as to harm someone. Uncomfortable, but not harmful. You can zone heat a radiator setup just as easily as a baseboard setup - actually don't need the zone control network, just adjust the valve on each radiator if you want. Or the fancier zone if you want.

--->Paul

[arabian knight]

I have basically been talking about Hot Water baseboard heat, compared to How Water radiators for heating a room.

[wy_white_wolf]

Originally Posted by rambler

....Air conditioning. Easy to do with forced air unit, can't do with water-based units....l

BINGO! We have a winner. Cost efficient in construction when you use the same ducting for both heating and cooling.

[C_Brice]

Originally Posted by Bonnie L

My dad would disagree. He put electric baseboard heaters in the living room & all bedrooms of our new house back in the early 60s. He eventually ripped them out because they were expensive to use & inefficient. He replaced them with 1 wood stove in the living room that heated the whole house.

I don't know about hot water baseboard heaters, but the electric ones are a fire hazard. A piece of paper or clothing carelessly tossed down can start a house fire.

Beg to differ on this one. Electric baseboard heat is 100% efficient and ALWAYS has been. It's also very safe today (not to be confused with the dark ages of the 60's). Woodstoves are far less safe.

It ain't cheap to use though.

CB

[TnAndy]

Originally Posted by wy_white_wolf

BINGO! We have a winner. Cost efficient in construction when you use the same ducting for both heating and cooling.

Yep....that's the reason. As we moved to an air conditioned society, it's cheaper to run one system that does both heat and AC. Hot water heat is a fine system, but more costly to install initially than a duct system, and definitely more costly if you install a duct in addition to it for AC.

[dancingfatcat]

I too, know of two families that had small children burned badly due to this type of heating. Scary to think how hot it could get!

[FarmboyBill]

I only saw them in business buildings in the 50s/60s. I never thought they got too hot. BUT they were always clanking. I saw an This Old House where they explained the reason for that, but ive forgotten what it is. Seemed like it was a simple fix

[texican]

They had the old steam radiators in our school... till I got into the sixth grade, and we got a new school.

Them sucker's would get hot. Spit on em and it'd boil off. Great for drying out wet clothes. We quickly learned to not lean against em....

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by texican

They had the old steam radiators in our school... till I got into the sixth grade, and we got a new school.

Them sucker's would get hot. Spit on em and it'd boil off. Great for drying out wet clothes. We quickly learned to not lean against em....

I think that is where a lot of people are getting confused those years ago were heated with Steam going through, and not just heated water.
Now you can still buy Stand up Radiator type heaters, There are many different types and they are sold all over the place at home improvement centers. Some are electric. but most now are oil filled.
http://www.nextag.com/filled-heater-...ator/shop-html

[ChristieAcres]

Stef, I agree it is a real shame they went of use. But that doesn't mean they have to stay out of use! The coldest room in our home was our bedroom. DH was given a big old RADIATOR:banana02: He restored it, tested it, sandblasted it, and then painted it. No before shots But, hey, took a picture of it before we put the desk back over it. WHAT DID YOU SAY? That is right, we have this radiator in our bedroom and there is a desk over it.

Doesn't it get hot? Not possible to get hotter than our thermostat control allows it to. The water heater has a maximum temperature it reaches. Our wood stove heats our water and there are multiple pressure relief valves. When it is on, I can not only touch it, but I can certainly hold my hand against it for as long as I want. Excellent for warming hands The old fashioned kinds weren't as heat controlled. Well I remember those, yikes! They WERE

We are now enjoying the warmth that radiates throughout our bedroom. I love it

There is a concern about the interiors of old radiators. The water should never circulate to being used for consumption unless they are rated safe for drinking water.

Here is our radiator that is NOT hot. It s!!!

[MELOC]

we have always had hot water in our system. hot water radiators are the absolute best. you have constant, even heat and you have a place to warm or dry clothes...or a cold butt, lol. i wish my chimney was fixed so i could use them now. this is the second year without having that constant even heat throughout the house and i really miss it. while forced air would be better than nothing, i really don't care for hot/cold cycle or the breeze. my long term goal is to use the existing radiator system with an outdoor boiler, even if it means i need to lower the temp from the 160 F-180 F range down to whatever. i miss my warm radiators.

they seem to be disappearing all over the country. if you have the notion to install them, you better try to salvage them any way you can. the price of steel and cast is on the rise again and fools will be junking more radiators by the score. they will be very hard to find someday.

[chickenista]

Ooooh I love hot water radiators. I had them in several of my apartments.
And the steam ones were in the party dorm at college.. had to evacuate the dorm when someone poured soured milk all over one of them and then later on whern someone poured really skanky bong water over one...
The milk was dire! Ewwwwwww.
But the heat was awesome and I would love to have a hot water radiator system in my house.

[ChristieAcres]

This thread reminded me...thanks Stef!!! I mentioned wanting more radiators and DH is now on the prowl for them I'd like them in each of our bedrooms (2 left) & possibly one in my home office. I have a small wood stove in there, but don't need it lit that often. Yes, locally, they are scrapped! On salvage & steel prices? We were given an old dozer that is beyond repair. DH is cutting it up for scrap. In one week, hard work & 3 trips... that scrap is worth net after expenses $2,000! He will be using his old work truck and equipment trailer. 6 tons per load- can go up to 8tons max. Since DH has a break between machinist/welding jobs, using his time to scrap that dozer beginning tomorrow.

Radiators used with Hot Water heaters properly set up, are not hot, provide great heat, and very safe! I should post a picture of ours with my desk over it- 3 months now... The clearance is only a few inches.