Root stock help needed

[cc-rider]

Woohoo! So excited! I got 20 assorted heirloom apple scions in the mail today and I really wasn’t expecting to get them. BIG QUESTION….where can I find 20 dwarf apple tree root stocks???? Reasonably priced, and quickly!

Next question…if I can’t find root stock quickly, how do I keep these whips alive and healthy until I can? Refrigerate? Keep damp?
Thanks!!!!!

CC

[Steve L.]

http://www.cumminsnursery.com/rootstocks.htm

Refrigerate. Keep damp.

[haypoint]

Lawyer Nurseries, Montana.

There are several dwarf varities, read up before you buy.

Up here, dwarf varities don't do well, so I use Antinovka apple rootstock.

If you've let those scions get warm or dry, you might as well forget it, you've killed them. They require damp cold until you are ready to graft. Are your grafting skills up to par? Do you have the materials needed to graft? When are you going to graft? Good luck.

[cc-rider]

They are still cold and damp.
No grafting skills Have to do some reading BIG TIME. I really want these to work!

I have Gravenstiens, Cox's Orange Pippen, Jerseymac, Granny Smith, Jonagold, Liberty, Bisbee Giant Winesap, PaulaRed, Hudson's Golden Gem, and Redfree.

If I can't find the rootstock, I'll graft them to a dwarf apple tree that I already have growing in the orchard, and then use that tree as my "momma" tree for getting scions later. Will that work? What time of year do I graft? I really didn't expect them (if at all!) until later this spring. I'm in zone 5, and it is about 10 degrees or so right now.

[texican]

Any apple tree'd do, imho. Grow em out a season on a regular healthy apple tree... if they take, you've got time to obtain dwarf stock later in the year, let em grow, and graft next winter.

Reckon you're a brave soul, buying the scions before knowing how to graft. I've always wanted to graft... and did graft some pecans once... but got awful busy and forgot later on which limbs were grafted and which were not....

good luck though, and happy grafting...

[cc-rider]

Thanks, Texican, I might just do that. When should I graft these to my current apple tree? When the sap starts running in February/March? Will the scions stay good that long???

I got the scions for free....so I'm not out money, but I really want to make it work so I don't waste the resources!!! Someone put a lot of time and effort into doing this for me and I don't want to let them down.

Edited: Just thought of another question. These are "whips" about a foot long or so, with buds on the end. What would happen if I just tried to root the entire whip in some damp sand? Would it grow? Of course, it'd be a full-sized tree, no doubt, but I could take cuttings later to graft to dwarf root stock, couldn't I?

[Michael Kawalek]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

Just thought of another question. These are "whips" about a foot long or so, with buds on the end. What would happen if I just tried to root the entire whip in some damp sand? Would it grow? Of course, it'd be a full-sized tree, no doubt, but I could take cuttings later to graft to dwarf root stock, couldn't I?

Forget this idea! Apple cutting will NOT root. Even with rooting hormone. If you try sticking your scions in the ground or sand, you might was well just throw them in the garbage. What will happen is the buds on the scions will open and little leaves will start to form, which will shortly kill the scions by dehydration.

Best option you have for RIGHT NOW is to just graft your scions onto the branches of whatever apple tree you already have handy. Then, like Texcan said, you can come back a year later with rootstock you have ready. One thing you can do is just sprout seeds from any store bought apple and grow them up for a year. You won't get any dwarfing character, but your rootstock will be free. I would do my grafting right at the end of freezing weather, about 4 weeks before budbreak in you local area. Expect the grafted scions to budbreak maybe 2-3 weeks after regular apples budbreak.
Good luck,
Michael

[Nomad]

Here's a dumb question...can you graft to any fruit tree or must it be apple only? I swear sometime back down the road I saw an ad for a tree that produced more than one kind of fruit. Am I farther around the bend than I think I am or could it be true?

Nomad

[cc-rider]

You can graft a few types of fruit on one tree, but for the life of me, I can't remember which ones work well together. I do know that you can't mix some of them. Oh, to have paid attention when the Master Gardener guy was talking to me! All I remember was that I was going to buy real apple rootstock, so it didn't matter that I could have used plum instead (for instance).

I've seen some places that advertise several varieties of apples on one tree, that ripen at different times or have different uses, but I don't recall seeing a tree with different fruits. That'd be cool, though! Fruit salad tree...

[haypoint]

Apple to apple only.

You can learn how to bud graft and get a branch growing from each bud.

If you do not get rootstocks, your idea of grafting them to an existing apple tree, will keep your scions living, but what's the point? You might as well get more scions when you are ready. You'll have lots of work grafting and caring for those new grafts on your existing tree.

I don't see why you wouldn't get rootstocks. Readily avaible from many places.

I've had good luck with bud grafts. Do it at bud swell, I think that would be mid-April in your area, maybe later. Before Memorial Day.

You can buy trees with 4 or 5 different varieties of apples. They often blossom at different times and may not be good pollenators for each other.

I don't know of any other fruit that is compatable with apple. There are some friuts that do work. I think it is between cherries and plums, or necturene and peach.

[cc-rider]

I guess I was thinking that if I had to do it NOW, I would have to use what I currently have...which would be trees already in the orchard. Since it looks like I may have a few weeks before I have to do it, I'll have time to order appropriate root stock. I wonder if they will ship this time of year?

I would assume that the scions will keep ok for a few weeks since they obviously just sent them to me now but wouldn't be expecting me to graft them right away? They are a research facility, so I assume they would know that this isn't the optimum time to graft!

[haypoint]

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...s/DG0532c.html

The cambrim layer is only one cell thick. Therefore, you must insure that that layer is held against that layer of the rootstock. That IMHO is the key to sucessful grafting.

Also, you have to care for the scions properly, make sure the rootstock is planted properly and growing well.
Prune the rootstock's leaves so the energy goes to your scion.

Rootstocks should cost under $2.00, a lot easier than growing your own. I buy by the hundreds and they are less than 75 cents each.

[haypoint]

http://www.lawyernursery.com/

They have only 25 Malus 'Antanovka' in the 3/8 inch diameter trunk available, for .99 cents each, but you have to buy a whole bundle, 25.
They have only 600 EMLA 106 Apple Rootstock in the 3/8 inch diameter trunk available, for $1.56 each, but they are in bundles of 50.

Budagovsky 9 Apple Rootstock, they are $1.80, 3/8 inch diameter trunk, but you have to buy a bundle of 50. This sounds like what you’d want:
Zone 4. Produces a dwarf tree about 25% of standard size. Cold hardy, collar rot resistant, vigorous, heavy crops of large fruit.


If you don't have room for 50 trees, try to pre-sell some or plant them in large nursery containers for use or sale later.

The grafts that fail, you can let rootstock leaves/branches grow and try grafting next year.

[haypoint]

They would know that this isn't tha time to graft, but they would assume you can keep them refrigerated and moist. There is the risk of being too wet and molding, but I think it better keep over damp than risk dryout. I wrap the cut ends in paper towel, soak and then stick into a big ziplock bag. If they are too long, I wrap them in Saran wrap.

In the mean time, spend a few hours threading needles. You'll need some practice in very fine work.

[haypoint]

[cc-rider]

Great pictures! (I'm a quilter/crafter, so I'm good at tiny, tedius work!) LOL

Those Antanovka would be doable....I really need 20 rootstocks, so 25 isn't bad, but aren't those full-sized trees? The others are cost prohibitive right now since I have to buy a minimum of 50 or 100.

If you decide you want to sell 25, let me know!

[coup]

old timers use to find a good apple and take scion or cuts form a tree in the fall and just dig a hole and bury till spring........

long as you keep from drying out they should be fine.

i ususally graft just before the buds come out or leaf out.

you probably will want a semi dwarf root stock......

i being cheap just walk around the farm and find volunteer roostock and graft to that...... your apples will need sunshine and mowed around,caged-protected......i make cages from woven wire....also be sure and make tags for your grafts with a number and then a tablet saying when and what grafted-to what rootstock........i use aluminum form pop cans punching holes for year and then tree.....you can use your own code..........

2010=.
winesap== ....
same dots in tablet with describition.

[cc-rider]

Since I have a brand new "homestead"...it was a cornfield 4 years ago....there aren't any other trees to adopt my baby scions. I do have a couple apple trees that I planted 4 years ago that are doing well, so they may have to be hosts if I don't find something else.

Luckily, the scions came with really nice, permenent-looking tags. I'll just have to remember to note the rootstock somewhere. Of course, I'm not too good at that since I'm not too sure what a couple trees are in my orchard....and I only have a dozen! I know what the fruit is, but not the variety.

[cc-rider]

'nuther question. If, perchance, they DID grow roots from the whips, instead of grafting them, what would they be??? Full-sized, I assume? Or crappy, weak trees? I ordered:
Gravenstien, Cox's Orange Pippin, Liberty, Jonagold, Bisbee's Giant Winesap, PaulaRed and 4 others that I can't remember at the moment. I'm really excited!

Haypoint...wish you didn't live so far away! I'd come visit just to see your orchard!!!!!

[haypoint]

While I doubt that you sould, somehow, get roots to form on your scions, the hardyness or ability to thrive in your soil conditions would still be unknown. With rootstocks, their charitistics are known.

If you could, somehow, get them to sprout and survive, the apples would be true to the scion, so you'd have your Jonagold, PaulaRed, etc. Yes, full size trees.

Keeping everything tagged is a problem. I've tried several methods. Ink on plastic tags goes away, wood sticks rot off, aluminum tags get crinkled up and my attempts to use a code system didn't work when my "decoder list" was lost in a computer crash. I like thre idea of alum cans, but you may want to tattoo the decoder list to your chest, so you'll not lose it. LOL

Correct, old timers would bury their scions. There were lots of things that were done before refrigeration. But why risk mice or rabbits eating your scions, if you have a place to keep them cold but not frozen. I wonder what the sucess rate was way back when?

You need to look at other nurseries. I'm sure there are some that will sell you 20.
Rather than delay my project a year, by grafting onto existing trees, I'd buy 50 rootstocks, then put out the word that you have rootstocks for sale. Like I said, you can plant the extras in buckets and graft them in 2011.

A weed whip or bumps from the mower will damager the cambrem layer and kill the tree. I've had mice get through wire mesh, chew through tar paper and wiggle the plastic wraps up. They feed on the bark of young trees, killing them.