Old Time Gardening

[Ken Scharabok]

I can't find the recent posting where someone ask what seeds to have available in a survival situation.

Neighbor called the other days to ask if I could stay with him mother while he fed out the cattle. 90-ish, still fairly healthy and is in one of those situations to where she remember things from years ago but not what she had for lunch. She was born and will die on this road.

I asked her about gardening when she was younger, specifically what they grew. She said they didn't grow many varieties and what they did was targeted at a couple of purposes: fresh, cooked & preserved. Often they served all three purposes.

- Beets. Tops went to animals but she said some people at them.
- Peas.
- Beans with one for cooking and one for drying.
- Tomatoes. She like a medium sized, meaty one.
- Corn. Yellow for livestock and white for on the cob, corn meal and homney. A feed mill would grind to order for shares.
- Cabbage for slaw and crock preserving.
- Turnips for cooking and winter storage.
- Okra (of course).
- Pickles mostly for crock preserving but used fresh as well.

I asked about what they did for vinegar. She said they tried to make it several times without much success. Store bought.

She said seed swapping among relatives was common with a letter typically containing some sort of seed to try. On seed sources she said they kept come of their own, but mostly store bought.

In the spring they ate a lot of poke salad with the kids gathering it by the bushel basket full.

She said she cooked almost exclusively from scratch and sometimes it was a challenge on how to keep everything from tasting the same, particularly during winter. She said there are only so many ways you can cook turnips. Game, including coon and possum, was a special treat.

I asked her about deer and she said they simply weren't many of them in the area. I've read in the 1930s the total number of deer within the State of TN was in the low thousands. It was only after farmland began to be cleared extensively for row crop farming the deer multiplied.

Friday nights were going to town events. Women went shopping, the men probably to the livery, younger kids played and older one courted. At the time there were numerous one or two room schools and it was an opportunity to meet with those from outside their neighborhood.

The stores normally carried them on credit, to be paid off as money became available. They would also accept crops as barter as they needed them, eggs in particular. The butcher would accept chickens and processed hogs. She said on many a winter day they went in with a gutted, beheaded and dehaired hog in the back of the wagon. Of course, almost all of the head and organs ended up as farm food and oh did she fondly remember head cheese. I don't think you can even buy it locally anymore.

(A couple of times a year my father liked hog brains and eggs for breakfast.)

The annual county fair was a huge event. Very limited now, but livestock showing and canning and cooking competitions were a very large part of the experience. She said somewhere she still had all of the various ribbons she won as they were certified bragging rights.

There was a buyer in town who would purchase live animals, including horses and mules. Those two were often traded within the county and adjoining ones. Cattle and hogs went via train to Nashville. If you wanted to you could ride the same train and deal with the livestock market yourself.

A very special event was to ride in the afternoon train to Nashville for The Grand Ole Opry and then arrive back in town around midnight - with sleeping children.

She said it was a hard life with working from can't see to can't see. Often she would get up at 3 AM to can as the stove didn't make the house as hot then. She laughed as said it was a blessing when her youngest started school as she could take a short afternoon nap.

She fondly remembered them as good times for the most part.

[ronbre]

hmmmm guess that makes me old cause i remember a whole lot of what she said..
however..some things she didn't mention that i fondly remember my grandparents farming and that was fruit trees and berry bushes..we couldn't have done without them.

we also gathered wild foods when they were in season, hucklberries, morel mushrooms, etc..

my grandfather left a state job after an accident and became a trapper..so there were always hides drying all over his house..in the winter.

it was always popular in our area to have perennial flowers like peonies and daylillies and iris, and occasionally there were saved seeds of annual flowers like zinnias and marigolds.

as children we were lent out to the local orchards to help pick cherries cause we were small and didn't break the trees if we climbed in them

[Beeman]

I'm fortunate to live in probably the last place where life like that went on. I talk to people all of the time about how it was. Some still do a lot of the things today. Many still save the heirloom seeds of their ancestors.
People here actually herded animals to market, could you imagine herding turkeys or hogs to market? They would build a raft and float it and logs for sale to Chattanooga and then walk home.
Wildlife was completely hunted and trapped out. They had to reintroduce deer and turkey to the area. If you didn't have land and wanted meat you hunted and ate everything you hunted. Trapping was how young boys made a few dollars.
Everyone had a dog or two but there was no such thing as store bought dog food. Every farm had mules but very few had a horse. Eggs were what you traded at the store for what you needed and were very valuable. Everyone with a farm kept a flock of chickens for the eggs and Sunday dinner. The chickens got some corn and the rest they foraged for. They raised hogs and turned them out to eat acorns and before the blight chestnuts, farms all had woven wire fences to keep the hogs in. They cut river weeds for the hogs to eat when they penned them. They kept a cow or a few for milk to sell and sold the calves as veal calves. Nobody slaughtered a beef as there was no way to keep that much meat. Many old timers have no "taste" for beef as pork was the meat of choice. The only part eaten fresh was the tenderloin, usually right after the slaughter. Smokehouses never had any smoke and were only used to hang meat. A spring house was the only refrigerator and that's where they put the milk cans waiting to be picked up. Bread was a rarity as biscuits were the staple. Sugar was store bought so molasses and honey were used for sweet if you got any.

[Wolf mom]

Just love "from can't see to can't see". Wish people spoke that creatively today.

Thanks, Ken, for a minute look at the past.

[firegirl969]

I enjoyed your post, Ken!

I am only 45, but I remember some of what Ken talked about. We lived on the 60+ acre family farm of my daddy. We raised hogs and cows. We had a tenant house down the road (which was dirt then). We killed about 5 hogs each winter. My daddy and papa would go down and shoot them and bring them back in the old truck papa had. They would boil them in a big boiler with a fire under it and then butcher them. The black tenants got the head, feet, and inards. You could smell the chitlins cooking 1/2 mile down the road the next day. My daddy loved them, so he went and ate with their family the day their mama cooked the chitlins. He always said, "he had to know who cleaned the chitlins 'fore he would eat them." LOL. They took the cows to the butcher. My papa went to the river fishing every Saturday when it was warm. He came home with the limit, 50 pan fish, everytime he went, and we all cleaned them that afternoon, split them up, put them in the freezer, and ate them often. Granny and mama both had a chicken yard, so we ate lots of eggs and occasionally good 'ole fried chicken on Sundays. We shared everything with the tenants, as I don't think they got paid much money. They did have a house, lights, and food though. Daddy also let him take his family to town occasionally in our truck. They were part of our family, so we took care of them. We had a large garden. My papa got up real early and would pick stuff and put it on our doorsteps. Boy, did mama fuss! She liked to pick it in the afternoon and cook it for supper (our big meal of the day), but that is not what papa wanted. My greatgrandma would come and stay a few weeks during the summer and she and my granny would can on halves. That's where I learned to can. We all ate real good, even in the winter. We got our milk on the doorstep each morning, as the milkman lived down the road from us and delivered it on his way to town, so we never had a milk cow. I miss those days. The work was hard, but life was fun. I believe that we all have tough times coming, but I wouldn't feel bad if they got back to the days Ken and I are talking about. Families and neighbors helping each other, having some fun, and just enjoying living instead of trying to keep up with the Joneses.

ETA: We didn't buy many groceries. Daddy got grits and cornmeal ground from the corn at the old mill. We did buy juices, some citrus fruits in season, bologna, salt, pepper, flour, and popcorn. Daddy liked for us to watch "The Wonderful World of Disney" on Sunday nights and eat popcorn as a family. Mama made it on the stove as there wasn't any microwaves. Our big meal on Sunday was after church, about 2 o'clock. I don't remember us really doing without anything we wanted, we just didn't want much.

[Lyra]

This is why hunting and fishing are such a big activities in PA. Families who have lived in the state for generations have been using wild game and fish to supplement their food supplies. It is such a huge tradition that is being passed down. Unfortunately, the media likes to portray these individuals in a negative light and as rednecks.

Ken, you should ask your seed question in the Gardening section. You might have an interest in heirloom species and organic seeds. Also, the type of plant you are choosing will depend on the use of the fruit or vegetable, climate, and soil. Different varieties of vegetables and fruit are better fresh, better for storing, etc.

[TJN66]

What a wonderful way to spend some time. I wish I had listened more to my grandpa when he was alive. The stories he told!

[Ken Scharabok]

Ah, yes, the number of hours I spent with my father on the Gulf fishing but never really had him talk much about his growing up. Most came from his two sisters after he had died. For example I didn't know until after he did his parents moved from Milwaukee to outside Mt. Home, AR for a couple of years in the early 20s, then back to Milwaukee when they couldn't eke out a living on the land they were given to homestead. Also didn't know he played a musical instrument in a Croatian band in Milwaukee - the one shown so much in Dr. Zavargo. Apparently how he met my mother.

On her comments, fruits and berries seemed to be an occasional treat more than as a crop.

You have to understand until TVA provided power to the area in many rural home their simply wasn't electricity. They were covered in asphalt siding for the most part. If you had a drilled well you drew it out with a torpedo-shaped water bucket a couple of gallons at a time. Outhouses and lamps. Washing in wood fired tubs. Saturday night washtub baths, but even then the pitcher and bowl on the back porch largely served the men.

She mentioned going across the TN River on a ferry for the entire family to pick cotton, with someone, often an aging family member, left behind to tend the livestock. They lived out of their wagon during the picking season. Kids followed the older ones to get whatever they might have missed. Corn picking was much the same way with a wagon with one high side. Adults picked and threw with the kids following to get anything missed. Cattle and hogs were then turned into the corn field to gleam it down.

On her health, her doctor said she is simply worn out from working so hard. Until she was in her 80s she still drove the tractor to do the windrowing and bushhogging.

[geo in mi]

I can still remember eating Grandma's gooseberry pie with the lard made crust. And currant jelly on homemade Clabber Girl bisquits(again lard).

[Ken Scharabok]

A couple of other items from one of her sons and neighbors.

There was a Western Auto in town and that is where the young boys might congregate to admire bikes and BB guns they couldn't afford. You were considered grown up when you receive a .22 rifle for a birthday or Christmas. At that time you could take your rifle to school to look for game on the way home. .22s and pocket knives were somewhat the medium of exchange for boys. No idea what the girls did, maybe dolls.

Another neighbor was born, has lived and will likely die within 100 yards. He said they had a barrel buried in the ground and that is where they stored the winter turnips. When the barrel started to run low one of the older kids would hold one of the youngest ones by their feet and drop them into the barrel to bring out two at a time. Plus they had to bring out the straw insulation. He said when someone discovered you could use a posthole digger to bring them out he was greatly relieved as he always feared being dropped and left in the barrel.

Alva was born nearby. Her husband Harvey's family moved to Waverly area from the Buffalo Valley east of Nashville. Mother and sisters were sent on ahead via train. Father and sons traveled with mule-drawn wagons, sleeping under them at night. He clearly remembered coming on the main east to west road through downtown Nashville, which was a marvel to him. He had never seen buildings so tall or so many people in one place at one time. Alva lived in a house to the east of me, while Harvey lived in one to the west. I heard she always managed to leave for school when Harvey walked by. I spoke with a guy who tried to date Alva, but she only had eyes for Harvey. Three children. Oldest boy is a house contractor. Next boy is a neighbor farmer. Daughter who become an RN and married a guy who become a orothpedic surgeon. Three of their sons became them also and one daughter is an RN. Not a bum in the whole lot, which, to me, speaks highly of their parents.

It wasn't unusual for larger farms to have worker families live on the farm. However, few blacks were employed as such. Most lived down at the old Johnsonville Landing on the TN River area and worked in the warehouses and such there. The flooding of KY Lake moved them to the Waverly area. However, some were small farmers on their own. All that is now under KY Lake, including what was considered to be some of the richest farming land in the US at the time. Heck, Jesse James lived in this area for a couple of years. Twins born and died her. Was using the Howard name at the time.

Blue Creek runs through my farmland and I'm told there use to be square dances by it. Lighting was lanterns hung from trees and such. String band with a caller. Also baptisms where the Forks of the River Road crossed it.

Three rivers in the county: Duck, Buffalo and Tennessee. Fishing was more survival than sport. Trout line jug fishing for cat fishing mostly. Areas were loosely claimed and woe to the one invading them.

Recently had a friend stop by to have me make him a grab hook. He wanted to go LARGE catfishing under the Forks of the River Road over the Duck River. Original river channel is maybe 60-70 feet deep under the bridge and sometimes they catch some too large to land by hand or net.

On Friday nights the politicans would hang around the livery, often handing out cigars and liquor sips. This was a dry county until the 70s. Sheriff had two brothers, one a barber and one a bootlegger. You could go to the barber shop and buy a special bottle of hair tonic out the back door.

I bought an old refrigerator for the shop to use to store welding rods and spray paint cans. Was told it use to be in the home of another bootlegger and was used to store liquor bought in another wet county. Occasionally it would be raided and three bottles would be found in a desk drawer. One went to the County Judge, another went to the Sheriff and a third (pint size) went to the Deputy. They just simply didn't look in the refrigerator.

[hengal]

Wow Ken, thanks for that post! And for your comments too Firegirl! As I was reading along these images were so clear in my mind of what you were describing. Tough life I'm sure, but sounds so worth it in many ways. My MIL is getting ready to turn 85, and although she does repeat things from time to time now, I never tire of hearing her talk about her family raising their own food, selling chickens and eggs and so many other stories she has. I relish them.

[Beeman]

Many that farmed to survive never had an off the farm job, but they also never had much if any reportable income. Therefore they had little or no savings and little or no Social security. Unfortunately many that survived ended up on SSI and some lost the farm after that to the gov't.

[Curtis B]

I still miss head cheese (it was Gulrye (sp) where I grew up). Grandpa allways made it, had the recipie in his head, so it died with him. I wish I could find some like it, nothing compares.

[jlxian]

Originally Posted by geo in mi

I can still remember eating Grandma's gooseberry pie with the lard made crust.

Heaven, Geo. Ah me.......

Ken, I hope you can spend some more time with this lady. Sounds like she has lots to share, and no doubt it is good for her to do the remembering. I'm envious of you and the stories you will probably hear!

[o&itw]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

I asked her about deer and she said they simply weren't many of them in the area. I've read in the 1930s the total number of deer within the State of TN was in the low thousands. .

I have sought after all the information I could find about people living during the depression. There is a lot that many of us have heard, but the cause of those situations wasn't always what it would seem.

In talking with a number of people, it seems that not being able to purchase a certain item was not always a lack of money, sometimes it was unavailability. Many smaller businesses producing everyday things went out of business. As a result, some common things were difficult to find even if one had the money. This might seem strange, but consider a few months back when Ford was saying it would have trouble staying in business if GM and Chrysler went belly up, because some of the parts companies that supplied them were dependant on business from all 3 of the automakers to stay in business.

There were certainly fewer deer in the country in 1929, but according to many people I talked with, almost all the wild game was harvested, that was available, in less than a year. Deer, rabbits, squirrels, geese, ducks etc. All took a nose dive in the local popultaions. I suspect that there were hunting regulations in place then as now, but hungry people don't worry too much about rules. Most of them said, that early on in the Depression, game became very scarce.

The exception to that, oddly enough, seems to be fish. Most of them gave up counting on much from hunting, but said they were always able to find a few fish. I am not sure with the present population size if that would hold up again.

[Ken Scharabok]

Some more from other:

Guy who tried to court Alva lived as a tenant on a farm at the end of this road. Had a Palamino horse he would take to town. Older brother had an early model Ford and offered to take him to and from town for $.50. He rode the horse. Said it was an early version of a 'chick magnet'.

Back when there was a craze for racoon hides Harvey would get up early and do a couple of hours of farm work, then go work for TVA cleaning out KY Lake, then come home, sleep a couple of hours, then coon hunt at night, then repeat.

TVA paid well above local wages. You went into work even you were sick. Keep a rag in your bib overalls, go in bushes, squat and then back back to work. There were people waiting at the employment office for either day work or more.

A well-tanned male coon hide might bring $12, which was BIG money at the time. Plus the coon ended up on the table. Eddie said he ate so much coon growing up he is surprised he doesn't have black rings around his eyes today.

To get to the TVA site Harvey's BIL had a WW-II jeep. Paid so much per day, extra for if you could provide a mule. Extremely good money for the time.

At one time they sold RR ties hand hued. Would try to carry several in a wayon (and they weighted about 200 lbs each) down to the Johnsonville Llanding to sell them. Two hills on the way. At the first one they had to unload half the ties, unload the rest at the top of the hill, then come back for the rest and reload those at the top of the hill. Going down hill to the landing was the reverse.

[therunbunch]

Amazing post, thanks for sharing!

[tjmomof4]

Wow! Thanks for sharing! I loved reading this, especially since we just moved to TN (Maryville), and I'm so intrigued by the history and heritage here.

[bergere]

Wonderful posts!

Wish I could get my Dad to tell more stories of when he was a child and one of the family farms was in Green Mountain NC. (The other farm was taken away to become part of the Pisgah National forest.. family was forced off and they weren't paid)
All I have gotten out of him is they had a two seat outhouse and a tom turkey that did not like him.

[Ken Scharabok]

If you are interested in The Great Depression stories consider the five book series on Stories and Recipes of the Great Depression of the 1930s. By Rita Van Amber as edited by apparently her daughter Janet Van Amber Paske.

First hand accounts followed by recipes. All reader submitted.

Pretty sure it is $15 a volume with $5.00 shipping for one to five. Each book is about 1" x 5 1/2" x 8 1/2". I have all five and it is really interesting to read through.

Janet Paske
Van Amber Publishers
826 E. Cecil Street
Neenah, WI 54946