Frozen Pipes!

calliemoonbeam · #1 12/27/09, 11:17 AM

Well, I had no trouble the actual day/night of the blizzard or the next day (Christmas eve and Christmas day), but last night my pipes froze up! Went to brush my teeth this morning and had no water.

Not sure why, it wasn't any colder than it was the night before, and they never froze up last winter, even though we had quite a few much colder spells, and I kept my thermostat on 55 and just used a space heater by the desk. This time I've got my thermostat on 65 and have been using space heaters regularly in the kitchen and the hall just outside the bathroom.

Right now, I've got the thermostat turned up to 75 and have space heaters in front of both open cabinets to the kitchen and bathroom sinks. I turned both cold faucets on slightly so that they'll start to run once they thaw. Is there anything else I should do right now? Any guesses as to why they froze up this time and what I should do to prevent it happening again? Thanks all!

Edit: Oops! Just as I posted this, the water started running, lol. But still, any guesses why it froze and what I should do to prevent it in the future? Temp got down to 20, if that makes any difference.

copperkid3 · #2 12/27/09, 11:30 AM

A lot depends on where your pipes are running from; i.e. through an unheated crawl space that may have
an opening allowing a cold draft across the pipes? Do you have a basement in which the pipes run thru it
and is there a possibility that someone left the door open a bit, allowing cold air to rush in? Now is the time
to go back and trace your pipes from the source (such as the pump), to each final faucet and examine where
they might be frozen. Then get a long enough and heavy enough, extension cord, and a hair dryer. Set it on
high & warm that area slowly around all sides of the pipe for several minutes. It helps to have someone else on
the faucet ends, to check and let you know when water or hissing sounds start to come out. Once unfrozen,
it is likely that you will need to either fill the gap from whence the cold air is striking the pipes, or also put a heat
tape around the affected area; plugging it in (to that heavy duty extension cord), whenever you get a blast of
arctic air coming thru your area.

Riverdale · #3 12/27/09, 11:39 AM

If you have a jet pump< there is a small copper or plastic line than if it freezes will cause problesms

if your water surges< this is probably the problem

and yes this is he voice of experience

fordy · #4 12/27/09, 11:58 AM

.................Anytime your pipes freeze be sure and check Every connection possible to make sure you have NO leaks ! Let the water trickle in a couple of different places like the kitchen and a bathroom and you can probably avoid frozen pipes , leave all cabinet doors open that contain plumbing within the cabinet . Be sure and take a walk around the perimeter of your home to check for signs of leaking buried pipes . , fordy

tinknal · #5 12/27/09, 12:08 PM

Was all your water off, or just those 2? If other sources were running that rules out the pump. Are you able to bank your house on that side with hay bales or something?

calliemoonbeam · #6 12/27/09, 12:33 PM

I live in a mobile on a slope. The east end is pretty much at ground level, but the west end is elevated about 8 feet from the ground. It does have heavy-duty skirting all the way around. There's a full-height access door on the north side with a storage area under there. The pipes are all on the south side and not wrapped, but as I said they never froze last winter, and it got a lot colder than this.

Tink, I didn't even think about it, but I did flush the toilet with no problem before trying to run water in the sink, doh! So I guess it was just the sinks. No jet pump, Riverdale, so I can eliminate that. Sorry you learned the hard way, lol.

I'm not able to get out and get under there to check it until this ice and snow melt off, but it sounds like maybe I have a leak again. Had a leak in the bathroom piping last spring. Didn't notice it until the propane supplier mentioned there was a water puddle down by the tank where it ran down the hill. The plumber at that time said all the piping looked original, and this mobile is at least 30 years old!

I guess until I can get under there I'll just make sure and leave the cabinet doors open, keep the space heaters going and keep the thermostat a little higher than usual. Hopefully, this stuff outside will melt off in the next day or so and I can see what's what.

So, do I just replace all the piping at once and be done with it (not sure I can even afford to do that!) or just keep replacing sections as they develop a problem? I don't figure there's much point in wrapping them if they're just going to have to be replaced is there?

fordy · #7 12/27/09, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calliemoonbeam

I live in a mobile on a slope. The east end is pretty much at ground level, but the west end is elevated about 8 feet from the ground. It does have heavy-duty skirting all the way around. There's a full-height access door on the north side with a storage area under there. The pipes are all on the south side and not wrapped, but as I said they never froze last winter, and it got a lot colder than this.

Tink, I didn't even think about it, but I did flush the toilet with no problem before trying to run water in the sink, doh! So I guess it was just the sinks. No jet pump, Riverdale, so I can eliminate that. Sorry you learned the hard way, lol.

I'm not able to get out and get under there to check it until this ice and snow melt off, but it sounds like maybe I have a leak again. Had a leak in the bathroom piping last spring. Didn't notice it until the propane supplier mentioned there was a water puddle down by the tank where it ran down the hill. The plumber at that time said all the piping looked original, and this mobile is at least 30 years old!

I guess until I can get under there I'll just make sure and leave the cabinet doors open, keep the space heaters going and keep the thermostat a little higher than usual. Hopefully, this stuff outside will melt off in the next day or so and I can see what's what.

So, do I just replace all the piping at once and be done with it (not sure I can even afford to do that!) or just keep replacing sections as they develop a problem? I don't figure there's much point in wrapping them if they're just going to have to be replaced is there?

...................Callie , they make a Compression type item about 4 inches long that you cut the pipe at the leak , pull one up and slide this "barrel over the end then center it over the leak ! Then , you simply tighten each end until snug . It should stop the leak until warmer weather allows for a full repair in the spring . , fordy

tinknal · #8 12/27/09, 12:48 PM

If it is copper piping I would just repair the leak (although at this time there is no evidence that you actually have one). If plastic I would replace the whole shebang.

JUllom · #9 12/27/09, 01:00 PM

Wind or drafts are more of a problem than the temperature - obviously, it has to be cold, but if there isn't a draft getting to the pipes, they will rarely freeze. I'd bet the difference between this year and last year for you is that there is a spot where a draft is getting in this year and then causing them to freeze. When you say the toilet flushed fine, did the tank also fill up again? Flushing once can be done even without working water.

The best heat tape out there (there are more than 1 manufacturer) is the type that has an internal thermostat all along the line. You don't have to "wrap it", but can simply run it along the line and tape it. The internal thermostat allows it to sense where the coldest areas of the pipe are and only heats those areas as needed. It can be plugged in all year without using much electricity except when needed. It comes in rolls of different lengths and you cut it to length and put the ends on it.

I run and own a plumbing company where freezing occurs - all of our trucks stock this heat tape. It is not cheap (I'd guess it is $1.50 a foot including ends) but it is the best. Hope this helps.

rambler · #10 12/27/09, 07:56 PM

Wind direction makes all the difference in suituations like you are describing. What whas the wind direction when the pipes froze?

Seal up the drafts wherever the pipes are, rather than replacing all the pipes - they will only freeze again....

20 degrees, those of us from MN are smiling to ourselves - we are happy when it gets that warm!

I have problems with one well pit when it gets well below zero and the wind shifts to coming from the east - can be a warmer wind, but it drives the cold air ahead of it into the pit.

--->Paul

tinknal · #11 12/27/09, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

20 degrees, those of us from MN are smiling to ourselves - we are happy when it gets that warm!

I have problems with one well pit when it gets well below zero and the wind shifts to coming from the east - can be a warmer wind, but it drives the cold air ahead of it into the pit.

--->Paul

LOL, that's why I don't bother fixing the leaky kitchen faucet. I figure that the pump could use the exercise in the middle of the night.

calliemoonbeam · #12 12/27/09, 10:31 PM

I knew 20 degrees wouldn't seem like much to y'all, lol, but thought I'd mention it just in the frame of things. But again, I've never had pipes freeze at that temp before. Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner, I've been working and was on a roll!

The wind was mostly coming from the north, but it was whipping around quite a bit and was up to 40-50 mph, so that might have been part of it. I tried to get out earlier and check things out, but it's a solid sheet of ice on a downhill slope, and I have one bum leg and one bum arm, on opposite sides, and am the world's biggest klutz! Figured the last thing I need is to get out and break something again (broke my arm two years ago and never have gotten full use of it back, broke my leg in six places in the past, same there). So it's just going to have to wait at least a day or two until some of this clears off.

Fordy, I'll check into that thing you mentioned if I do have a leak. That sounds like something I could do myself and would be MUCH easier than trying to replace much during the winter or having to call a plumber! Tink, I think it is plastic, so will plan to replace in the spring if not sooner.

Jullom, thanks for the professional advice, and welcome to the boards!

Can I use that tape on plastic pipes? I'll definitely look into that, plus check for any wind leak areas, but I was just putting rat poison out last week and didn't notice any then.

The toilet did refill after that first flush and since then. The water has been on the rest of the day once it started to run. It does spit occasionally though, does that mean there's air in the line, and if so does that mean a leak? I just figured maybe it's ice crystals still and will clear up. Maybe it was just the wind that caused the freeze.

I've kept the space heaters on all day and will leave them on tonight, plus leave a small stream in both sinks, as well as keeping the thermostat up as it's supposed to get just as cold again tonight. Thanks for your help everyone!

Update: Just got up to go to work, 6 a.m. It's 14 degrees and no frozen pipes! (left the heaters on and a small stream of water running)

Michael W. Smith · #13 12/28/09, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calliemoonbeam

Had a leak in the bathroom piping last spring. The plumber at that time said all the piping looked original, and this mobile is at least 30 years old!

So, do I just replace all the piping at once and be done with it (not sure I can even afford to do that!) or just keep replacing sections as they develop a problem?

If the pipes are original from 30 years ago, regardless of being plastic or copper, I'd just replace the whole thing once the weather warms up.

I had old copper pipe that kept getting a pin sized hole in. I'd no sooner repair the one until several months later a new leak would develop. Replacing the whole thing solved the problem. Might be "expensive" originally, but if you keep calling the plumber to come fix a leak each time, your several leaks will pay for one call and replacing everything.

You may want to get some heat tape when you can and have it already on the pipe so when you get cold weather in the future, you can plug it in and not have to worry about frozen (or broken) pipes.

calliemoonbeam · #14 12/28/09, 04:19 PM

Yes, that's kind of what I was thinking, the one small leak I had last spring cost $250 to have fixed, that could add up quick one leak at a time, lol. I'm definitely going to get some of that tape as soon as I can get out of here! It warmed up some today and stuff is melting off, but I just tried to get out and go to town, and my road is still an accident waiting to happen, steep, curvy, washed out gravel that will rattle your teeth loose in dry conditions, and it's still a solid sheet of ice. Thanks Michael!

insocal · #15 12/28/09, 06:44 PM

What JUllom said: HEAT TAPE. When I was a kid we had a cabin up at 10,000 ft in the CO Rockies, and one winter we arrived at Christmas to frozen, busted toilet and pipes. After that fiasco, Daddy got everything heat taped up, and that was the end of that. You can leave the faucets trickling if you can't do the heat tape right away. Running water won't freeze.

calliemoonbeam · #16 12/29/09, 10:02 AM

Okay, you're the third person to recommend heat tape, lol. I'm sold! Just gotta be able to get out of here, and now they're calling for more snow tonight and tomorrow, eek! I did leave the water trickling the other night and it didn't freeze, so will keep using that approach until I can get out and check for leaks and get to town for some tape. Thanks!