RealGear 140mig?

[HermitJohn]

I have been looking at 120VAC mig welders. I have a 220V Harbor Freight thing that I wish I didnt have but have gotten by with for several years. It simply isnt very adjustable on low end and for me, a mig is for sheet metal. Anything above 1/8 inch steel I would prefer stick welder.

Anyway I know enough to stay away from el cheapo crappo migs, many of them only have 2 heat settings and even with gas option wouldnt be any good on thin sheet metal.

And yes the conventional wisdom is Millermatic 140, Linconln 140 or Hobart 140. All of these are high dollar for the kind of use I would be giving them. The Hobart Handler 140 is cheapest and it is close to $500. I have used a Millermatic and probably prefer it, but its simply crazy priced for kind of use I would give it.

But there are two others that got my interest. Northern Tools has their house labeled brand, Northern Industrial 140. It has its flaws compared to the name brands but has 90% good reviews from buyers for home use. Northern also seems to stand behind it according to the reviews. Its still would spoil a $400 bill to get possession of one. Not sure saving $100 is worth it over the Hobart.

Then there is the RealGear 140, a Chinese made mig http://www.gts-welco.com/gts-welco.aspx?pcid=263&ptid=1 sold by a subsidiary of Praxair which does give it some credibility. But I've not found over two owners commenting on it and that took lot googling. Those two by way liked it. What impressed me most was it has continuous voltage and wire feed adjustment. Amazing in this price mig. This is very good for welding thin sheet metal as doing such can be very picky about settings. With my 220V Harbor fReight I have to run too slow wire speed as I cant tune the voltage very well, there is just basically one low setting and its not correct most of time. Anyway it makes for sloppy welds and its just frankly a royal pain to try and use for such. The RealGear 140 goes for $329 shipping included via ebay.

Anybody reading this have any experience with either the Northern Industrial or the RealGear welders? Or am I thinking penny wise and pound foolish and should go for the Hobart as you can get parts for it anywhere and it will hold its value much better if I decided to ever sell it. Be nice to get a clean used Hobart for around $200, but suppose that isnt going to happen unless I just hit the right auction.

[PhilJohnson]

How about trying a TIG welder? They work great for light sheetmetal work. I bought my setup for 380 bucks. It is a ThermalArc 95s TIG/ARC machine made right here in the US. It is super portable too. Seems like a quality little unit. Thus far I think my brother has gotten more use out of it than I have, said it was just as nice as the Miller Tig units he had on the job site.

[Darren]

I've always bought tools with the idea they should not be disposable. I want something that will do the job when I need to do the job. I bought one of the Lincoln 120V units maybe three years ago. It wasn't cheap. I've never had a problem plus the duty cycle is such that I'm not likely to either.

I'd suggest setting up a search on ebay to get the email notices and going after the machine you really want.

I don't know how they did it, but Miller has a small welder that a pipefitter crew had on a job. They were using it to install the chilled water piping. Most of that was 6" sch 40. I was amazed at the output from something that was about as big as a mailbox.

[Beeman]

Hobart has a forum, I'n sure someone there has tried the one you're talking about. Personally I would go for the Hobart. Norhtern and TSC run specials on them. I've never heard anyone say anything good about any off brand welder.

[artificer]

Which Harbor Freight welder do you have? Most of their 230v mig welders only have wire speed control. If you have the 93793, it has both voltage and wire speed control, and should work well on thinner metal. If you don't have voltage control, thin stuff is going to be hard to do.

I just picked up a Lincoln 140 for the work shop. The only use for it is thin sheetmetal. (less than 1/8") I welded a continuous bead on 24gage steel, and no problem with burn through. I even picked up some .025 stainless wire for thinner SS welding. Even with voltage control, the locally available .030 SS wire was burning through 18gage SS sheet.

Are you using the .023 HF wire? If not, try that before investing in a new welder.

As for "a mig is for sheet metal, " I guess it depends on your equipment and preference. Our big welder can burn through 1/4" plate if I set it high enough. The only reason I use stick is outdoors work in the wind and specialty rods. (nickle for cast iron, surface hardening, etc.)

Michael

[HermitJohn]

This is old HF mig welder, not sure model number. Big heavy thing you arent going to move around very much. It does have voltage control. Not continuous, but you get at least four choices, cant remember since I never used it over position 2. The first click however is too much for good job on sheet metal. And wire feed was never that consistant so had to fight with that also.

I just grew up with the buzz box stick welder so thats what I am most comfortable with. Each to their own, stick welder is just my first choice. They however are next to useless on thin metal.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by artificer

I just picked up a Lincoln 140 for the work shop. The only use for it is thin sheetmetal. (less than 1/8") I welded a continuous bead on 24gage steel, and no problem with burn through. I even picked up some .025 stainless wire for thinner SS welding. Even with voltage control, the locally available .030 SS wire was burning through 18gage SS sheet.

Is this the Lincoln 140-c with continuous voltage selection or the one with the click switch? Thats why I was impressed that the RealGear/Praxair mig had continuous control, not something you find on cheaper mig. If this was just cheapo junk welder for inexperienced suckers, then dont think they would bother with that. Matter of fact some people are saying the RealGear 140 welder is a China clone of the Lincoln "140-c". Seller isnt claiming that, just that it can use the Lincoln spool gun without an adapter, so I am not sure. Really be nice to get some indepth feedback from owners and users of the REalGear welder instead of just hearsay and putdowns by people who have never been in same room with one, let alone had any experience with it. Anybody mentions any but big three American welder names on welding forums and it is immediately dismissed even though nobody there ever used one. Hey it may be and probably is a piece of junk, but I want to hear real world experiences from an actual owner/user, not from the seller and not from those engaging in the welder equivalent of the meaningless Ford/Chevy debates.

[artificer]

Not at work now, so I'm not sure. I think its the SP-140T. This photo looks like it. The voltage control is continuous.

Don't know about the RealGear. It would be nice if it was a good clone. I've seen some of the HF clones of woodworking equipment. Sometimes its good, sometimes really bad. One thing I bought was a drillpress. Looked like the identical castings from the Delta and Jet ones. Cheaper sheet metal, poorer machining, but it works. Yeah, reviews would be nice.

Good luck

Michael

[HermitJohn]

China stuff is a real mixed bag. I've found some things including Honda clone 5.5hp engine quite nice. Like you said they cheapen the sheet metal. I know the gas tank on it really looks really rinky ---- and they cheapened the air filter assembley and sheet metal housing. But its quiet and quite reliable so far just like one would expect of a Honda.

Electric stuff really chancy. But I've had that old HF mig for over decade and it still works, annoying, but it still will weld. Just doesnt do thin sheet metal very well. Whats really annoying is some of there stuff isnt bad designed except they cheaped out on bearings and such that really limits its life and usefulness.

You do have to remember that many American name brand stuff is made entirely in China in Chinese owned and run factories under contract and license. Its built to a specified standard. Like Japan and Korea and Taiwan before them, they make what American distributors demand. Some unknown brand isnt going to be made to high quality standards cause what sells it is cheap price. If they made it to high quality, it would have to be priced very close to existing namebrands and wouldnt sell near as well until it developed a name recognition, then it would have to compete as a recognized namebrand. China is in process of doing what Japan, Korea, and Taiwan did before them and slowly starting to restrict export of really junky stuff. As price of labor there goes up they have to, cant make cheap junk crap if you have to pay significant labor and fixed costs. Not sure where American distributors will get cheap stuff once China and India start maturing into selling higher quality stuff.

[Darren]

Off subject, but you might find it interesting. I saw one of these yesterday for the first time. Don't laugh until you check it out.



http://www.cobratorch.com/

[Beeman]

What about consumables? I know I can buy everything for my Lincoln at the local auto parts, the welding supply and even Lowes.
I have a Lincoln 220v mig and have no need for a stick welder. Why throw more good money after bad?

[Darren]

"Matter of fact some people are saying the RealGear 140 welder is a China clone of the Lincoln "140-c". Seller isnt claiming that, just that it can use the Lincoln spool gun without an adapter,"

Looking back at your post: that's about as good a hint as you will get that it's a clone.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Beeman

What about consumables? I know I can buy everything for my Lincoln at the local auto parts, the welding supply and even Lowes.
I have a Lincoln 220v mig and have no need for a stick welder. Why throw more good money after bad?

I'm not buying anything until I get significant number of independent feedbacks by actual owner/user or else find a proven welder at price I want to pay. I did learn my lesson with that HF. I get it that the Miller, Lincoln and Hobart 140 welders work fine unless you get a dud and then companies will replace under warranty. However when you use a mig just handful times a year, spending huge amounts money is pointless, if it comes to that, just do without and try brazing or drilling holes and screwing stuff together that I cant weld with stick welder.

And great you dont like stick welder, thats fine, seems lot people dont anymore. Most of my experience is with a stick welder and for most welding thats what I prefer. I'm very comfortable with it, its simple robust technology with no consumable parts other than the electrodes themselves and no circuit boards to go bad. just fan, so why change? Have two or three of them setting around. Kinda funny, two of them are fancy AC/DC copper wound. Guess what gets used most, really rusty ugly very beatup old Miller Thunderbolt aluminum wound AC welder. Just cause its handy and sets outdoors ontop of an old tire rim covered by an old washtub where I have easy driveup access without necessity of moving things around. Try keeping your mig under a washtub outdoors.....

If you look at the Real Gear welder website I gave link to above, this thing uses standard Lincoln consumables, tips, liners, etc. so suppose one would find them at same type places you do. its not going to be an orphan unless its circuit board or something like that. They did try to give some incentive to people to take it seriously. Designing it to use already easily available parts is good stategy. But I still am not finding out how it works in real world. Or at least not a significant number of people, i did find couple brief postitive comments with google as I said. Be nicer to find lengthy comment by somebody (preferably several somebodies with some welding experience). Somebody who has used other migs and has lived with this one for a while. Not somebody that just bought it as first welder and is happy because he managed to weld his muffler on.

[Darren]

I can understand your point of view. Other than the Lincoln, I have a 30 year old Century for stick.

This is the stick unit I mentioned. Notice that it weighs 13.2 lbs and it's classified as an industrial unit.



http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...maxstar_150_s/

[Darren]

HJ you can find reviews here:

http://nsjc.proboards.com/index.cgi?...t&thread=28967

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Darren

I can understand your point of view. Other than the Lincoln, I have a 30 year old Century for stick.

This is the stick unit I mentioned. Notice that it weighs 13.2 lbs and it's classified as an industrial unit.



http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...maxstar_150_s/

That Miller is something, be fun to try it, especially the model with the pulse welding. Pretty neat also that it works 120V or 220V. But I would never get my moneys worth out of something like that. I putter and experiment, I dont make living welding.

And yes that RealGear link you found was one of ones I found. Probably best one I found. Still be nice to find bunch of reviews like that Northern Industrial 140 had on the Northern website. It had many reviews, enough to point out its weaknesses and strengths, and vast majority was positive. But I still dont see it being wonderful buy at only $100 less than a Hobart. i'd spring for the extra $100 and get Hobart. Now if it was priced down around $300 with free shipping like the Real Gear welder, then I would be quite interested. As to Real Gear welder, I dont believe positives until I hear the negatives and so far nobody with experience is telling me problems they had with it.

[yelodel]

I wanted to reply about the realgear mig welder. I have one and really like it for a few reasons. first the price as with others i had some concerns but it turned out to be a great value. the welder had many of the features of the miller and lincoln at half the price. the mig gun parts are standard tweco or lincoln and i can get them anywhere plus it came with the regulator and hose so it was gas ready out of the box. the nice feature was it came ready for a spool gun which i got as a christmas present, realgear had their own and it is under $100 and pluged right in. i did have to get pure argon for alum welding and after a few mistakes on my side i was welding with it in a few minutes. what was cool the tips and nozzle were the same as the mig gun so everything used the same parts. when i got the gas at the gts welding store i was also looking at the small realgear stick welder it runs on 115 and 230 and i think i am going to get it for my son, this welder was $325 again half the price of others.

[texican]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

I'm not buying anything until I get significant number of independent feedbacks by actual owner/user or else find a proven welder at price I want to pay

HJ, you probably already know this, but I can easily imagine quite a few of the folks using welding machines, aren't on the internet posting about them. Most folks my age rarely get on the net at all. Young pups you can't keep off.

When you do find a forum, like the Hobart one, it's a blessing.

I'm amazed that there's a lot of older folks posting on sawmill forums...

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by texican

HJ, you probably already know this, but I can easily imagine quite a few of the folks using welding machines, aren't on the internet posting about them. Most folks my age rarely get on the net at all. Young pups you can't keep off.

When you do find a forum, like the Hobart one, it's a blessing.

I'm amazed that there's a lot of older folks posting on sawmill forums...

You apparently have never been on old tractor and old car forums. Lot old geezers. Same on the ford six forum.

Also look at date of this thread, its over year old.

By way I did finally get one of the RealGear migs. I like it, it looks fairly well built and I did look at the Hobart up close at TSC. No idea of its longevity, but its a hobbiest welder for me, not going to get hard daily use. I simply couldnt see the price they were wanting on the namebrand welders.

[texican]

Shazam, it is a year old!

I've got an ancient stick welder. Couple months ago I realized a mig welder for smaller pieces would come in handy, so I got one of the HF ones... looks identical to the one at TSC. If I were making a living with one, and burning rolls of wire a week, I might've sprung for one. I've only needed to use it twice, for just a few minutes each to weld some square tubing to some implements. A roll of wire will probably last me a year.

If price weren't an object, I'd have a diesel fired combo welder/genny. Or, if they made one, a gas fired genny/welder, as I have the free nat. gas.
But, price is a concern....