Evicted!!!

adamtheha · #1 12/04/09, 07:51 PM

Ok, we have a huge issue here...
Several months ago, we wanted to move a family out to our land here in Canada, and they thought they could probably stand living in a very nicely equipped travel trailer for about a year while we built a house next spring...
So, they bought one, and brought it out here to store it for a bit, while they sorted out permits. We applied for a permit, and were denied. We appealed that, and were denied again!
Now, the county is demanding that we REMOVE the trailer from our land in 14 days!
These people have no home other than this trailer, and nowhere to move it to, and it's the middle of winter!
Anyone have any thoughts on how to fight this on humanitarian grounds? Maybe some group or agency that specializes in this sort of thing?
Thanks!

Colleen in WI · #2 12/04/09, 07:59 PM

What reason were you given for the denial? Is it a trailer issue, a space issue, or a sanitation issue? Are you able to apply for a variance to your local zoning rules? Could you apply for a variance for the trailer so they can stay until they find a home. It may cost some money but they would have some time to breath. Good luck to you all!

Mistyf · #3 12/04/09, 08:00 PM

If it's a travel trailer, can't you put it in the driveway, as long as it's tagged? Or, for that matter anywhere on your property. People keep travel trailers at their houses all the time.

fishhead · #4 12/04/09, 08:01 PM

Is there any kind of cold weather rule like for home heating and electric?

DaleK · #5 12/04/09, 08:05 PM

First make up your mind. Did they bring the trailer out there to "store it for a bit" or is it their only home? Sounds to me like you and they just went ahead with the trailer and were hoping you'd get a pass on the rules later. Should have done your homework.

Bay Mare · #6 12/04/09, 08:13 PM

Is there a campground reasonably close by? They could move the trailer there for the winter to at least have heat, electricity, and a bathroom.

Angela

texican · #7 12/04/09, 09:12 PM

Unfortunately, you live in an area that has codes, rules, and regulations.... I've heard about and read about these places... I might visit, but I'd never want to live there.

You're options right now? Obey the law, or disobey the law. Let the authorities kick them out of their 'home'... let a few of them freeze to death, and maybe the rules will be changed... or they could sleep on your couch.

Good luck...
it's in the 20's here in balmy Texas, and it's rough... can't imagine having to move out and be homeless on a night like this...

nathan104 · #8 12/04/09, 09:41 PM

Its pretty crazy that you live somewhere that has a rule against you owning a travel trailer and parking it on your own property. Do they allow you to own a car or truck or do you have to pick one?

My advice is that you should move.

Micahn · #9 12/04/09, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nathan104

Its pretty crazy that you live somewhere that has a rule against you owning a travel trailer and parking it on your own property. Do they allow you to own a car or truck or do you have to pick one?

My advice is that you should move.

I used to live in a place that would not allow trucks,boats,campers or even a car parked outside over night. Let me clear that up a little. You could park a car only inside your garage only. No trucks no boats even if parked in your garage. I lived there about a year until we found a better place. Here in Florida them kind of rules seem to be a common thing where you have a bunch of retired people with nothing to do.

adamtheha · #10 12/05/09, 03:21 AM

The main issue seems to centre around the trailer being "designed for vacation use only, not for residence". In reality, people are living in dumpy trailers all around the county (in campgrounds), and this thing is a $50,000 fully equipped model. Everything onboard, generator, septic, you name it.
We did everything properly, but the county is alledging that we violated the bylaw by having the trailers onsite first. The funny thing is, we were never charged or convicted of an offense, they simply punished us outside of the court system by denying the permit.
At the time of the application, our friends had a home in the city, and were actually just storing the trailers on our land! Then, their lease ran out, but no decision had been given yet. So, we let them basically dry-camp. There aren't any prohibitions about camping, and it's obviously not permanent, so...
I'm looking into the law, and I notice that the BC Supreme Court has allowed homeless people the right to camp on public property, and set up a tent as well. Surely there must be some inherent right to allow camping on private property for a short period of time??

Alice In TX/MO · #11 12/05/09, 05:59 AM

Let me explain that I'm a debate coach, so I'm going to address this as a debate rebuttal, point by point. If you will read carefully, you will discover that you shoot down your own claims.

Your post:

The main issue seems to centre around the trailer being "designed for vacation use only, not for residence". (This is true.)

In reality, people are living in dumpy trailers all around the county (Irrelevant to your situation) (in campgrounds) (True), and this thing is a $50,000 fully equipped model. Everything onboard, generator, septic, you name it. (Irrelevant)

We did everything properly (No you didn't, as evidenced by the rest of your sentence), but the county is alleging that we violated the bylaw by having the trailers on site first. The funny thing is, we were never charged or convicted of an offense,(The gov didn't want to waste time with that process.) they simply punished us outside of the court system by denying the permit. (This is true and within the rights of your local government.)

At the time of the application, our friends had a home in the city, and were actually just storing the trailers on our land! Then, their lease ran out, but no decision had been given yet. So, we let them basically dry-camp.(This is where you made the big error. Did you ask for a variance, ask for the process to be accelerated, communicate with the powers that be?) There aren't any prohibitions about camping, and it's obviously not permanent, so... (Irrelevant. The government doesn't care.)

I'm looking into the law, and I notice that the BC Supreme Court has allowed homeless people the right to camp on public property, and set up a tent as well. (Irrelevant to your situation) Surely there must be some inherent right to allow camping on private property for a short period of time?? (Inherent right? You have only the rights allowed by the local government.)

It is my opinion that you'd use your time and energy more efficiently by finding them an alternative place to live rather than fight the bureaucracy. Just my dos pesos.

seagullplayer · #12 12/05/09, 09:18 AM

When all else fails, call the local news paper and or TV news, it is just the right time of year for a human interest story like this.

Name names and point fingers...

northgirl · #13 12/05/09, 10:42 AM

How about if they stayed in a campground for a short while and during that time apply for the permit. My guess is that u live somewhere around calgary cuz I lived there and they are hardcore on rules!! My friend outside of edmonton did the same thing for her friends and there was never any issue and no requirment of a permit. Anyways good luck and if u can find out exactly what nedds to be done to comply then run the govt circles and be done with it cuz u will never win fighting it..lol.
I read your post again after writing this and it got me to thinking a little more. You mentioned land! If you are out of the city then I don't get it. In Alberta(unless you have a special bylaw/variance) you are allowed to visitors stay on your property for a certain amount of time...so can't you consider them visitors and allow them to stay for the max time and then have them leave for a month and then come back? Just a thought!

Wolf mom · #14 12/05/09, 10:47 AM

Ahhhh, Alice In Tx: Cool minds prevail. Thank you.

Living in an area with rules & regulations, codes & covenants, it's always better to get your facts first rather than try to say "I'm sorry, please let me do this."

A good lesson learned so you know what to do before you build the house.....

Harry Chickpea · #15 12/05/09, 11:09 AM

"Let me explain that I'm a debate coach, so I'm going to address this as a debate rebuttal, point by point. If you will read carefully, you will discover that you shoot down your own claims."

Yay!!! Great post. I could tell from the get-go that the OP was going to lose this one with the bureaucracy. First, I've NEVER seen a travel trailer with a septic tank. Holding tank, yes, 2000 gallon septic tank, no. A travel trailer is NOT what the people of the area (in general) want, and they have spoken through the government. The gummint gave two chances and then third warning, yer out. As gummint procedure goes, that one is better than most. Usually there are a hunk of fines tagged along. We consciously chose to move to an area without that type of regulation.

Head 'em up, move 'em out.

A great education in clarification can be had by following through the process that Alice used in dissecting the post. There are critical analytical skills that can be learned by spending a few months doing two things - learning how formal debate works, and learning the "basic" computer language well enough to write a small program from scratch. Both teach how to focus only on what works and how to eliminate seemingly important trivialities. Kudos, Alice.

texican · #16 12/05/09, 11:34 AM

Move em to public land. Let the authorities know the trailer is gone. Beg forgiveness. A month later, apply for a permit. If they deny it, you're through.

Build a quick, down, and dirty home... and move them in.

Of course, you probably need permits for this too.

I've been through Alberta many times... (over 20 times) it always pay (if you're in a 'code' area) to

A.) Have no neighbors within your viewshed.

B.) Have no one able to see your home/homestead within your viewshed.

If you can be seen, busybodies will see you... and if you're in a Progressive area, you will be flagged and brought to the attention of the Progressive authorities. People choose to live in these areas, and they want to keep riff raff out. If you're riff raff (I proudly declare myself to be riff raff in the eyes of the stuckup sterilistas (like things clean and neat)....) you must live by their sterilist rules... otherwise, come over to the Dark Side!, we have cookies...

fordy · #17 12/05/09, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seagullplayer

When all else fails, call the local news paper and or TV news, it is just the right time of year for a human interest story like this.

Name names and point fingers...

.................HERE , Is The ONLY possible answer Too your problem ! Exploit the Weather issue , and Emphasize you're only Asking the Permit folks too Hold Off until it warms Up ! Make them look as cold as the canadian Winter ! , fordy

WindowOrMirror · #18 12/05/09, 01:02 PM

you moved forward on an assumption... and it was wrong. now you get to figure it out... I'd find some other solution, unless I was enraged enough to stick with it until I got the law changed.

artificer · #19 12/05/09, 03:51 PM

Different country, but I'll explain some of our local rules, and how they MIGHT apply to your situation.

We can store a trailer on our property, but not live in it. If you want to camp, you have to have an outhouse, which requires permits and inspections. Once you have the outhouse, you have to move the tent/trailer once a month. You can not have directly connected water to a trailer/building, unless that building has a septic system.

The reasoning behind this is that long term trailer parking without a waste disposal system would probably result in the waste tank being dumped on the ground. Right or wrong, that's their viewpoint, and you have to live with it. If you have an outhouse, that takes care of the waste problem. If you have running water connected to a building, they want a sanitary method of waste disposal, even if its only gray water. (composting/sawdust toilets are not recognized)

I would suggest removing the trailer, since thats what they want. After that, find out what you can do as far as temporary living in the trailer goes. Next, reapply for the building permits. Be VERY apologetic and come with you hat in your hand. ANY sign of belligerence on your part will annoy them, and hurt your case. If you get into a ----ing contest, you will lose. One of my personal sayings is "a government employee never gets in trouble for denying a questionable request." You have to sell them on the idea. It may not be right, but there is a proper method in dealing with bureaucrats.

If you try to win the "live on the property in a trailer" battle, you'll definitely lose the building permit war. It may be down the road, but once you've annoyed the permit office and inspectors, they can make far too many roadblocks for you.

Michael

wr · #20 12/05/09, 05:34 PM

The could store their trailer at an RV storage facility but that isn't what you're asking. What county are you in?