needing to buy a propane generator..advice?

ronbre · #1 11/25/09, 11:53 AM

Today at 09:44:40 AM

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Ron and I and our son have been checking out propane generators, we have to get a generator to run the pump on our wood furnace so that it doesn't boil over if and when the power goes out..it holds so much heat even with the fire out for 2 days that it will cause the fluid to boil over if there is a power outage that prevents the water from circulating.

i have been pricing them and really want to find the best price for a rather small generator, i don't want gas or noisy, we have propane here so it is our best choice.

right now the best prices i have found are these two, by Gentron. Pro 2 - 6000g $879 and Pro 2 - 3500P for $499...we think the second one might be too small.

we HAVE to be able to run the pump and the fan for the heat..with it..but would also like to be able to use back up for freezers and refrig and Ron would love to be able to have a small t v run on it also.

i'm really stupid about these things and have no idea what size we need..but the max we can spend is about $800 or so..

would love to have a kind tha turns itself on when power goes out and is connected to our house service..but that isn't likely to happen..

fantasymaker · #2 11/25/09, 12:02 PM

Why not get a power inverter and a couple of Deep cycle batteries? keep them charged up with a inexpencive trickle charger for the day that the power goes off and if its off for a extened period of time recharge them with your car.

artificer · #3 11/25/09, 01:11 PM

Do a search on the forum and you'll find several threads that talk about generators.

I agree with fantasymaker at least partially. You need to find out how much power you pump needs to operate. Get a battery and inverter that can handle the power for at least a day. If you don't, you'll be running the generator 24/7 for as long as the power is out. It gets really old after a day or two. (or even hours for some of us) Getting the generator as well will let you run the other loads at least for part of the day.

The smaller generator will most likely handle the loads you have, depending on the size of the fridge/freezer and pump. If you find out the power requirements on them, we can provide more specific help. Worst case, just list the make/model of what you want to power.

The generator doesn't have to be on 24/7 to keep a freezer cold. Once its at temp, it will stay cold for a while. Time depends on ambient temp, how packed it is, etc. If you have the inverter, the pump, fan, light, tv can all be powered with the inverter. The more you want the inverter to handle, the larger it needs to be.

Michael

Old Vet · #4 11/25/09, 01:44 PM

The 3500 will power the pump and maybe the fan. The 6000 will power the fan pump and a freezer and a few lights. I ran a 5000 wat generator and it would power the well pump freezer refrigerator and a few lights.To get a generator that will come on automatically you will need a transfer switch and the ones that I have found cost about around $1,000 or some what less. Check Northern Tool catalog and you can find a lot of generators. That is where I bought mine from and most of them are good. Unless you are good at installing electrical hook up you will need a electrician to hook it up for you.

Oregon Julie · #5 11/25/09, 04:59 PM

First thing to do is determine your absolute needs for power. Check all electrical loads
by checking the amperage draw on the appliances involved. Decide which are necessary
and which are not. I suggest you check out this website--http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ This is a site hosted by Northern Arizona Wind and Sun---a retail
outlet for alternative energy products, but the forum is quite good with a lot of information, including generators and sizing. Lots of help from the posts, and good
people. Educate yourself before spending any money.

**Julie here, my hubby Ray posted this. I do need to get him his own log on.

ronbre · #6 11/26/09, 07:04 PM

thanks for the info, you have already mentioned a few things i hadn't thought of, i knew you would be helpful..

adamtheha · #7 11/28/09, 09:37 AM

Propane is loud, and not as efficient as gas or diesel. A 4500 watt genny will consume 40 lbs of propane a day, if running all the time. Go with the batteries/inverter, and charge with your car, like was suggested.

artificer · #8 11/28/09, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamtheha

Propane is loud, and not as efficient as gas or diesel. A 4500 watt genny will consume 40 lbs of propane a day, if running all the time. Go with the batteries/inverter, and charge with your car, like was suggested.

Gas and propane generators are the same thing. The only difference is the propane engine has a different carburetor. You can even get kits to convert your gas engine to run on propane or NG. The OP's listed generator comes in either gas or propane. Sound and efficiency should be the same. Running on propane will be cleaner, and its easier to store the fuel for long periods of time. (years)

A car/truck charging the battery will work for the short term or for short duration, but they don't work as well as you would think. You should only use about half of the rated amp capacity of the charger for long periods. More than that can fry the alternator. The alternator will not fully charge a deep discharge battery. You'll start out with a 10%-15% power capacity hit right from the start. IIRC

Our Jetta TDI (diesel) uses about .1 to .2 gallons/hour on idle. Thats 2 1/2 to 5 gallons/day, without the charging load. If you have a gas car or truck, its going to be more. For a short time use, used only for the heating pump/fan, it would be fine. For longer durations, and when you start adding all of the other loads, it becomes a problem. Every hour of run time is about the equivlent of 60 miles. So you're in effect driving 1440 miles every 24 hours, and at idle, the worst condition for the engine.

I really like our Xantrex DR1012 inverter/charger. It acts like a big UPS. Run you power through it, and it keeps the batteries charged. As soon as AC power drops, it takes over providing power. After AC returns, it switches back, then resumes charging the batteries. Most of the name brand invert/chargers will do the same thing. Kinda cool...

Michael

Edit: The mentioned generator would use 48lbs of propane/day at 1/2 load (1750 watts). The gas engine would use 52lbs/day at 1/2 load. Going with gallons, since thats how you buy it, you get 11.4gal/day and 8.6gal/day. No road tax on propane, so the cost is not that far off. The added benefit is the clean running, and almost infinite storage life of propane.

roachhill · #9 11/28/09, 01:41 PM

I've been looking into a new generator myself and I was told a diesel will last longer because propane isn't a good lubricant. I'm still leaning towards propane for the convenience and because diesels are more expensive. You can find a small propane generator at Sportsman's Guide for $395 it's the best price I've found.

texican · #10 11/28/09, 09:31 PM

I've done both... genny And battery/inverter.

Battery bank large enough to power an icebox and freezer and other energy hogs will cost more than 800. An inverter designed to handle a 240v load is going to be more than 800... back when I thought about going for a whole house inverter system for my off grid home, they were running around a grand, for a basic unit.

Battery/inverter will be great for lights (get some LED's), stereo, and small tv or radio. Will quickly kill your expensive battery bank if you start trying to 'live normally' while the grid is down.

Go with the propane genny. Just make sure you have "lots" of propane on hand. I have unlimited free natural gas, so for me it's not an issue. Any genny I get in the future will run on ng.

ronbre · #11 11/29/09, 11:03 AM

we do not have ng avail here in the country but do have a 500 gal propane tank..and some smaller ones..like for bbq's...which could be used for shorter term..

i've found a lot of info here and have fowarded the link to my son to keep an eye on.

will be checking into that Xantrex DR1012 mentioned above..and my son is handy and says that he has info and has parts for some of the necessary battery inverters.

has anyone used a trickle charge system with wind or solar for keeping batteries charged?

Jim-mi · #12 11/29/09, 11:31 AM

I run my whole home, well, barn on wind and PV.

The lower cost gen units will be a bunch noiser then higher priced units. . . . go with the larger unit . . .down the road you'll be glad you did. During a grid outage you will be able to power the "other stuff".

Auto start can get quite involved.
First does the gen your talking about have electric start . . ??
Transfer switches can get pricy in a hurry.

texican · #13 11/29/09, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim-mi

I run my whole home, well, barn on wind and PV.

The lower cost gen units will be a bunch noiser then higher priced units. . . . go with the larger unit . . .down the road you'll be glad you did. During a grid outage you will be able to power the "other stuff".

Auto start can get quite involved.
First does the gen your talking about have electric start . . ??
Transfer switches can get pricy in a hurry.

But, Jim-mi, unless you're a Master Scrounger, I'd imagine you have more than 800$ invested.

I'm on the grid now, but still retain my off grid equipment for backup... my basic battery bank is 400$ and my inverter was 300$... I have over 2k in panels.

I think everyone could get a nice basic system set up for less than 5K, if they're willing to adjust their lifestyles...

I also wouldn't get a 'basic' genny... get a larger one that'd cover needs in the future, without compromising.

Old Vet · #14 11/29/09, 07:22 PM

I have a 5000 wat gasoline generator and a 20 kva whole house stand by propane generator with a transfer switch that will start the generator 15 seconds after the power goes out. I love it it also starts it for 15 minutes every week to keep the battery charged and to check out the generator and make sure it works right. I have around $8,000 invested in it including another 250 gallon tank and the electrician to install it. Saying that diesel will out last propane because it doesn't have lubrication in it is not quiet right. All of them will last about the same if well maintained and run some time to get fresh fuel in them. I have had lots of propane and diesel power units and they run about the same time. The diesel need to have the oil changed more often and it gets dirtier than propane will.

ronbre · #15 11/30/09, 10:16 AM

appreciate all the info..can't go $8,000 ..hubby only makes $1,600 a month..and most of that goes into medical insurance..

we would however like to be able to get a start on something that will protect us in power outages now..and eventually if possible get off the grid..but it will have to be in small bites..say $600 to $800 a year..for the extra things..right now the generator and a few battery/inverter groupings will be all we can afford..and really all we would need for an emergency..and cause we already have a 500 gal propane tank that makes sense for us..to go propane..

we already heat with firewood..so we don't have to provide heat with the unit, just keep the pump and fans running.

in the future sure it would be wonderful to get off the grid..but hopefully also in the future prices of sun and wind power will come down as well.

i know some of you are putting in solar and wind powered units..and would appreciate information on how to get started slowly on those units, at the lowest possible prices without buying cheapo stuff..but we can't obviously do that this year anyway.