"Land Between the Lakes", Ky - Question

[tallpines]

Is anyone here familar with the history of "Land Between the Lakes", Ky?
Apparently the government pushed their way in and took all that land.

If the government went in and disrupted and leveled whole towns, think of all the family homesteads that must have been taken.

How truamatic that must have been!

Anyone have, or know of, any personal stories related to this?

Was there a movie made based on this situation?

[kyfiddle]

tallpines- that is exactly what happened. After Lake Barkley was flooded in the 60's, the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) finished pushing the people out that were left in the area between Kentucky and Barkley Lakes. It is around 170,000 acres that lies partly in KY and partly in TN. There were several towns that were relocated when Kentucky Lake was flooded in the 40's and a smaller number when Barkley Lake was flooded in the 60's. The two lakes took a lot of farms too- together they cover in the neighborhood of 220,000 acres.
When the TVA took over the area, they supposedly promised that the land would never be commercially developed. They did build some campgrounds and lake access areas and also built some other visitors centers and one living history farm. Some of the former residents got fired up a few years ago when TVA opened "camp stores" that sold limited groceries, ice, etc. at some of the campgrounds- thinking that was a step in the opposite direction of what they had been promised. Now the US forest Service is in charge of it. They seem to have a more "hands-off" attitude as far as most of the campgrounds are concerned. The roads and right-of-ways aren't maintained like they were by TVA either. Good enough, but not as good.
In the 70's there were still a few houses and out-buildings left, but were finally torn down. There was one Catholic Church that somehow managed to escape destruction and was restored by locals a few years back. (http://www.explorekentuckylake.com/e.../Ststevens.htm)
There are a lot of old family or community cemeteries spread through the area. A walk through them will remind a person just how hard life was "in the old days". There is a group that has made it their goal to locate, clean, and maintain every cemetery they can. Actually, most are better cared for now than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
My family wasn't displaced by any of the government land grab, but a lot of my friends' families were- mostly though from the flooding of Kentucky Lake back in the 40's. My Dad grew up in Grand Rivers Ky, which is just outside the north entrance to LBL. I grew up hearing stories about people and happenings in the area "Between the Rivers" as they used to call it.
In some ways it is a shame- what was forced on those folks. To sit at a crossroads that was once a community that has nothing left now but a few scars on the earth where buildings - homes, barns, or stores- once stood makes a feller pretty sad. But on the other hand, because of their sacrifices we have a piece of wilderness in an increasingly sub-divided, strip-malled world. I only hope the government will stand up to it's promise to leave it all basically undeveloped.
David W.

[Ken Scharabok]

I believe the movie you are thinking of is Wild River staring Montgomer Cliff, Lee Remick and Jo Van Fleet (as the elderly woman). From what I understand it isn't about any one particular case, but a generic film about people being forced to sell because the land would be flooded.

New Johnsonville at KY Lake and Highway 70 in TN is a replacement for Johnsonville, which was a steamboat landing at what is now the bottom of the lake. It still has houses built by TVA for its workers at the time.

Even though KY Lake is predominately in TN, it is called KY Lake because the dam itself is in KY. As I recall it is something like the third largest manmade body of water in the U.S.

A story I've heard, but don't necessarily know is true, is TVA would name a dam after the nearest town. For Springfield Dam in WY the nearest town was Gad. However, TVA didn't want to call it Gad Dam.

Yes, people were forced off of their properties, but it was for the overall public good. TVA dams stopped periodic major flooding along the waterways they controlled. It open up the rivers to commerce and recreation and TVA is a major power supplier for the TN Valley. Until TVA came into this area was almost in poverty. Tar paper siding shacks and such.

A neighbor, now dead, worked on KY Lake before it was flooded. As I recall he said they paid $.50 hour, $1 hour if you could supply a mule. That was at a time when, if you could get cash for a job, $1 day was good. You may barter helping someone put up their hay for two feeder pigs. Their job was to clear the land to be flooded, predominately by hand. It was such a good job you went to work even if you were sick. If you had the runs you kept a rag in your bib, squatted in the bushes, and went back to work. Marketable trees were hauled away and sold. Some were made into RR ties on site, hauled away and sold. Smaller ones were cut down, into lengths and stacked for burning.

He also farmed and hunted racoons at night. Then a well-tanned large coon hide might bring $10-12. His son said when he was a kid they ate so much roasted coon he is surprised he doesn't have dark circles around his eyes.

[Sawmill Jim]

Don't forget there is a gold mine on it too . And don't try to pet the Buffalo either those suckers can be mean . Should go see the homestead if you can . Last i was there they had a steam engine pulling a sawmill .

[Ken Scharabok]

"Yes, people were forced off of their properties, but it was for the overall public good."

To clarify in the particular case of Land Between the Lakes, the issue was it wouldn't be flooded, but was still taken. I have read of one other case in which TVA took land from folks for a dam which was never built, but has refused to sell it back. Part of the snail darter issue. Suspect logic is it may be built sometime in the future.

I've heard after PETA managed to stop the slaughtering of horses in the US folks with unwanted ones would take them into LBL and simply leave them there. Now they are counted and you had better have the same number as you are leaving.

I haven't been there, but all of the reports I've heard about it for camping and sightseeing have been excellent.

[ronbre]

i have a friend that moved to KY, and she said that people there do not accept any outsiders at all because of that..i'm talking about people that were there before the land grab..she said she was never accepted by the people..and she has been there a very long time...

the mammoth cave grab was a huge one

[Rita]

A whole small town and farm-type houses were destroyed when Dale Hollow Lake here in TN was made.

[Ken Scharabok]

Has been years since I was in the Smoky Mtns park. However, I believe it was largely created by forcing those within the desired area of the park to sell. Some may have been offered lifetime usage. That is, you can live on your property for the rest of your lives, but it cannot be passed on to anyone else.

[gwhilikerz]

Originally Posted by ronbre

i have a friend that moved to KY, and she said that people there do not accept any outsiders at all because of that..i'm talking about people that were there before the land grab..she said she was never accepted by the people..and she has been there a very long time...

the mammoth cave grab was a huge one

I don't know where your friend lives in KY but it sounds nothing like those I have met around LBL. I spend a lot of time in the LBL hunting, fishing, camping. It is still common to find some old-timer around the cemeteries and old home sites. They are always the friendliest folks you will ever meet and are eager to tell you all about their remembances of the area. Of course you will get the cold shoulder if you are the tourist that seems to have "15 minutes" to see the whole thing.

[Gercarson]

Some of my most beautiful memories of childhood were made in Kuttawa, KY - Old Kuttawa, there is now a New Kuttawa that seems sterile and cookie cutter looking. Haven't been back in years and years so I hope it has changed. Old Kuttawa was a great place for children - so it seems now that I'm "elderly".

[Manzanita]

Here's a pretty good story written by a man who was a child when TVA was taking the land.

Also, that particular website ( http://www.betweentherivers.org/ ) has lots of old photos from the area.

Another good photographic resource is a flickr site maintained by Tripp Scott, a US Forest Service ranger. Start here.

[Manzanita]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

Yes, people were forced off of their properties, but it was for the overall public good. TVA dams stopped periodic major flooding along the waterways they controlled. It open up the rivers to commerce and recreation and TVA is a major power supplier for the TN Valley. Until TVA came into this area was almost in poverty. Tar paper siding shacks and such.

Actually, Ken, they originally only confiscated the land in the areas that were going to be flooded. That was understandable. The problems arose when they decided later to take all 170,000 acres of what is now Land Between the Lakes. The people were portrayed by the government as backwards tar paper shack living hicks but that was inaccurate. Some of that land was taken from people who had lived there since their ancestors were granted the land around the time of the Revolutionary War. I live right across the lake from LBL and go there often. I love the area but it's a tragic story that I often recall when I run across an old foundation, structure, or road bed.

A very nice history of that area is the book, "Between the Rivers: A history of Land Between the Lakes" by Betty Joe Wallace. It covers the earliest native American indians all the way up to the TVA acquisitions.

Edited to add: I just read your later post clarifying. Never heard about the horse thing.