Heat pumps?

[Dexter]

Another question regarding my new house (is there a better board for this??)
I'm really interested in efficiency, even if it costs extra up front, BUT so long as it pays for itself in the forseable future!

I've been given 2 prices so far. Both over $15,000. The house is about 1700 sq'.

Any opinions on these? Are they truely cost effective, within a realistic pay-off period? Are they going to cost more in maintenance/parts replacements than will actually pay off in actually heat/cooling savings??

Thanks!

[tyusclan]

They are efficient, but you're not going to be able to take very much advantage of the heating efficiency in B.C. It'll be fine on relatively mild days, but when the temps go below 30*F you're going to need an ambient lockout to shut down the heat pump and turn on a backup gas or oil furnace. Below that temp the heat pump will be constantly freezing up and going in and out of defrost. The electric strips come on that point and your efficiency goes out the window.

Unless you're in an area that needs A/C in the summer I wouldn't think a heat pump would be the best option. If you don't need A/C in the summer and can only use the heat for a little while in the spring and fall it'll be a long time paying you back.

[Dexter]

Interesting points!
There are 'up to' 2 months of cooking hot weather here where AC would be a dream.
Then about 2 months where temps are basically too low and yes an electric forced air heat will have to kick in- however I have just purchased a really nice VC woodstove which should be able to heat enough to keep the furnace basically off.

[Sawmill Jim]

Wow glad i can do my own . Do those folks come to work in a limo ??

If i had my heart set on a heat pump it would be duel fuel it uses gas instead of strips can be locked out of heat pump mode at a set outside temp . Below 33 f heat pumps are worthless in my book really work better at 40f and up .

[Sawmill Jim]

If i wasn't in town i would check on a wood fired outside boiler setup

[Batt]

That sounds really high. If you have the land, have you considered a "ground source heat pump"? It very efficiently uses the natural ground heat (abt 55º) to both heat and cool. My 1600 s/f house is heated and cooled for about $1/day year round average. Won't take long to pay for it at that rate.

[Randy Rooster]

that price sounds very high to me.

I had my 1400 square foot house done 2 years ago with the air handler, heat pump and all the duct work for $6500. All top of the line components and labor.

[Dexter]

Interesting on the pricing!
I did get 4 uotes for ground source(geothermal) and they ranged from $40-$60k!!!
That is the going rate around here, and all new homes are getting it! I just can't see me ever paying $40k off.
$15k seems better, but!!
I will get some more quotes.

[gandrimp]

$15,000.00 is more like the price for a ground source heat pump. Dual fuel for my house 5 years ago was $7500.00 aprox 2400 sqf.

EDIT; I see where you just posted more prices. Holy Cow those are crazy prices.

[madness]

Heat pumps are great here in Central Texas. Rarely does it get cold enough for there to be any problem with them. 3 years ago, we had a freak cold snap and it stayed around 25 for days in a row (I can remember a handful of times that it stayed below freezing during the day in my entire life). My heat pump ran constantly during that whole time and barely got the house to 50F. But that's the only time I've ever had an issue.

[Batt]

Link to GSHP prices.Here are some prices done by one of the colleges. I forget where, but I'm sure it is in the document. They are talking about 3 Ton units installed at around $9,000. That doesn't include the internal ducting and air hendling, but it sound a lot better to me.
I did a lot of my own work: I hired the backhoe to dig the trenches, I installed the piping, Hired a skid loader to fill in the ditches. Someone to fuse the manifolds and hook up the GSHP. Someone else to run the air handling. Total cost for 4 Ton unit <$9,000. 4 years ago.

[Sawmill Jim]

Using water source heat in Canada no way they got some good salesman for sure any heat pump there other than the duel fuel no way

[Pink_Carnation]

I like the heat pump we have....we are in western washington so we don't tend to get the extreme temps so it works well for us. To tell how long it will take to pay off you first need to know the difference in price from the cost of the other systems that you might use instead.

[Dexter]

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Using water source heat in Canada no way they got some good salesman for sure any heat pump there other than the duel fuel no way

Canada isn't all tundra and permafrost if that is what you are suggesting. Areas with high a watertable are ideal. Check out Iceland.
And there is always drilling down.
And yes, root cellars work just fine in the North as well.

Also, gathering all the wood a boiler requires has a cost as well. Sweat equity must be part of your budget/plan. And we won't be young enough to gather wood forever. I'm planning long term.
I did purchase a beautiful wood stove with cook top supplementing the chosen system, and back up.

[agmantoo]

I am curious as to what the water temperature would be pumped from a well in the area the heat pump would be installed? here in zone 7 it is ~55 degrees F and the savings from a geothermal heat pump are significant. Additionally, the heat supplied is much warmer at the discharge registers than that of a conventional heat pump.

[Sawmill Jim]

The water source still uses a compressor to bring the water temp up . A well insulated house makes a big difference too . Also you got a well to run if you put the math to cost and life span ??? I know Canada an;t all icebergs . It is the mechanics of a heat pump balance point is reached near 33f its efficiency goes out the window at 36f or so meaning strip heaters and defrost cycle more often . If your area has these temps ?? Reason here the are going to duel fuel that is instead of strips it switches to gas heat till the out side temp rises again . Even here in Tn after a few years lots of folks wish they never saw a water source heat pump my x bil for one . One the first jobs i had years ago was installing an working on these things still do if i am broke .Most don't know in defrost it kicks the reverse valve is tripped and aircodishner is on turning the heat strips on to keep the warm coming in . Here it is 49 f out side . Where my son lives they have ran their heat three times in four years . Not many understand balance point once reached it is strips only most installers leave the compressor and everything going to fool the home owner thinking his pump is just doing a good job .

[agmantoo]

Sawmill Jim, I believe you are confused on how a ground source geothermal heat pumps functions. I have one and the manner of operation is not as you describe.

[mdharris68]

Dexter,

What are the specifics of your bids? Price is irrelevent untill we can see what your getting for that price.

You will obviously be getting a new duct system since your house is new. Is there any chance that they are offering to install one of the new air to air heat pumps that will operate below zero degrees outdoor air temp? They are quite a bit more expensive due to having two compressors.

Let us know what your bids include and we can give you an idea if your getting your moneys worth.

[cindy71]

I have a heat pump in a DW home I don't like it. That $15,000 price Canadian dollars. How much would that be in US dollars? Is that the going rate for units in Canada? I would go with gas or wood. Just my thought. Cindy

[Cindy in PA]

I will also say that a completely electric heat pump NEVER makes you warm. We rarely use ours in the winter time, because we heat with wood & coal. On the off months sept-Nov. & say April & May, it is cold in the house anytime it gets cloudy for more than a day at a time. If the sun is out, we are fine! We have had this for 25 years, but if we had it to do over again, we would have oil or gas backup. My sister just put one in a 1000 sq. ft. (Poor insulation) house that used to have gas heat. She put in all electric. Last winter her electric bill was $400-500/ month, because she switched to the electric backup to be warm! Ouch!! My electric runs around $100 in the winter with a 1500 sq. ft house. AC is great from the heat pump, heating not so much.