Need to get elderly stroke victim to quit driving

[Common Tator]

Has anyone here had the experience of getting an unsafe driver to quit driving?

This one is tough, because he has been spoken to by numerous people about his bad driving, and he refuses to accept hearing it from family members. If he continues to drive, someone will get hurt or die.

I have asked his doctor to file a request for reexamination with the state licensing agency where he resides. I have no doubt he will fail the reexamination, or at least I can hope!

[stef]

Your concern is totally understandable and legitimate, and if your relative fails the recert test, he should have his license taken away. Better now, than after someone is killed or injured.

But I can also understand his feelings. Letting go of driving is the loss of incredible independence. It is very, very difficult to admit you are no longer competent to drive and now have to rely on others.
A hard place to be for all involved.


stef

[Common Tator]

Thanks Stef. It difficult for most folks to admit they aren't competent, but for him it is impossible.

[EDDIE BUCK]

Maybe the Dr can recommend no driving for him,to Dept of Motor Vehicles.Hope it works out well.

[Common Tator]

Thanks Eddie. hope it works out well too.

[Big Dave]

Take out the coil

[Common Tator]

Disabling the car only works if it's his car. His wife still drives well, and she needs it.

[Pink_Carnation]

If you can't get him to have to retake the test maybe you could convince him he needs to stop because he could have another stroke while driving. That way you aren't saying he is a bad driver just that his medical risks make it unsafe. I heard of someone in the neighborhood whose husband died when someone lost control of their car and plowed into him.

[Common Tator]

At this point we have done all the talking we can do...to him. He will not accept what his family tells him about his driving, and the risk of accidents and injuring or killing innocent people has been discussed. It is time for authority figures to step in and do the talking, and take whatever action is necessary.

He is not a bad man. His personality changed when he had the stroke. Before the stroke he was more caring and reasonable.

[whodunit]

It sounds like you are doing what needs to be done, but just be aware there are what some might call "unintended consequences" involved.

I'm not trying to be dramatic or scare you, but just want to provide some information that can help you plan in case something does occur.

Not sure what state the person lives in, but here's some information on how thing work in California. Other states are likely similar.

In California driving without a license is a misdemeanor. Generally, unless there are other charges or warrants, the person is cited and released and the vehicle is almost always towed, if there is no other licensed driver in the vehicle.

The cost of getting a vehicle back can easily add up to a couple hundred dollars.

Most LE departments charge some sort of "vehicle release fee". I have personally seen $70 and have heard of up to $100 and more.

Once, the above is paid, you must then pay the tow company for the tow charge (I've seen as high as $100) plus any storage fees which is determined by how long the vehicle was in storage.

Repeated offenses can result in the vehicle being towed and stored for up to 30 days, by state law.

If the person pleads or is found guilty (which happens 99.9% of the time- "What is there to argue?"), there will likely be no jail time, but there will be fines and court cost potentially in the hundreds of dollars.

If the person has decent financial resources they will likely NOT qualify for a public defender, so if they want legal representation, they will pay out of pocket. Even run of the mill lawyers charge about $100 an hour.

Repeated offenses can lead to having a "suspended license" which is different than not being licensed. This can result in actual jail time.

Also, if this person has a diminished mental capacity, they are likely not to take kindly to the police interfering with their "right" to drive. The police will not tolerate any danger to themselves and will act accordingly if they are threatened. This can result in injury and/or more serious charges like "resisting arrest" or "assault" and people will normally be physically arrested and booked in those cases.

The person's mental capacity may later come into play as to whether they are actually charged, but it normally won't be a factor in whether they are arrested and booked.

I hope this helps.

[Jenn]

Sounds like you have already reported him to the DMV as possibly unsafe? Don't be afraid to do this yourself rather than waiting on Dr to do it. Ask your local LEO how best to proceed. Good luck- your burden of guilt if he kills folks will apparently be higher than his.

My car was wrecked in a hospital parking lot by a stroke victim who insisted on driving when he left the hospital. I was pretty angry about his sexist feeling he was better suited to drive than his well wife. Couldn't even exit parking space as it turned out.

[NostalgicGranny]

Check on the state regulations. Here in Texas certain physical ailments render you unfit to drive. Of course, it seems to be more of an honor system when you check those little boxes . . .

My MIL kept driving even after having brain seizures. Eventually I pointed out that what she was doing was illegal in Texas. So she went to her doctor and tried to claim she wasn't having them anymore. He reduced her meds (trying to wean her off of them I think) and she started having multiple mini seizures.
She used to say I only black out for a second or two. Told her that is just enough time to wipe out an entire family. She never did like me after that but she never killed anyone out of stubbornness either.

[BillHoo]

For the record, I'm in my 40s and think that elderly who have physical difficulties driving should NOT be on the road. More people are killed in North America by elderly drivers than are killed by Great White Sharks!

However... If that were me in my 80s with a blind eye, problems with controlling my steering and braking... IT'S MY DARNED RIGHT TO DRIVE!!! What are you people? Communists!? As long as I have a license, I'm going to get behind the wheel!

First you'll be taking away my car, then my freedom of speech, then my guns!!

Then my grandson would interject and say "Relax gramps! Let's go back to the home. I hear they have bannana pudding today!"

[Common Tator]

Actually, I spoke with that state's DMV yesterday. The individual I spoke with couldn't believe that his doctors didn't file the request for reexamination after his stroke. That was a different doctor, a neurologist. The Neurologist had someone in his office ask him a series of questions, and they declared him fit to drive, without ever doing a behind the wheel test, or notifying the state.

The DMV employee said the state has a right to know if a driver suffers a brain injury or disease, so that they can reexamine the individual.

The state in question, will give the name of the person who reported them upon request.

If he found out it was me, he would resent me for the rest of my life, after an initial screaming fit at me, he would probably never speak to me again. He takes his anger out on his wife, regardless of what or who he is upset with, and this is what really concerns me. I am also asking his doctor to deal with the anger issue too. The anger and bad behavior toward his wife are the result of the personality change that happened as a result of his stroke.

When he had his stroke, they looked at his test (CT scan?) and said that it was actually his second stroke. He had another one years earlier. That made sense, because his driving had already changed for the worse, and he had several accidents in a fairly short period of time. At the time, he thought he was falling asleep behind the wheel, and was diagnosed with sleep apnea. That may have been the case. He falls asleep at the drop of a hat.

The last time I rode with him, he was wide awake, but his reaction times were extremely slow, even with me screaming for him to stop (several times) as he sped toward a line of cars stopped at a red light. I don't think he is aware that he zones out. When he is told what happened, and asked to give up driving, he retells the story with different causes of the near tragedy, and he is the hero who averted disaster with his considerable driving skills.

If the state takes his license, I believe he would give up driving. He would also be asked to relinquish his key, but would probably keep the remote door opener, because he often opts to sit in the car while his wife shops.

I know that many of us have either already faced similar circumstances, are facing them now, or will in the future, so I'll keep you informed of how it goes.

I would also like to hear how others fared.

[madness]

Ugh. It's no fun. I've dealt with 4 elderly relatives and driving issues. It's amazing how different people react.

First, my great aunt had a minor fender bender (her fault) in her 80s. It scared her and she gave up driving immediately. She lived very close to lots of family and everyone pitched in with getting her around.

Then my grandfather decided of his own accord to stop driving. For no real reason, just figured he was old enough. His wife still drove.

After my grandfather passed away, my grandmother had multiple brain injuries (from falls). The family that lives near her didn't see it as an issue and she continued to drive. Being several states away, my family couldn't do much about it. She then got into a horrible accident, injured several people (no one died thank goodness) including herself. She had a severe, inoperable brain bleed. The doctors weren't sure she would live. She did recover and had her license taken away. She fought and complained and was generally ugly to everyone involved (doctors, family, etc). She was caught driving several times by family members until they took the car away. She then had a severe stroke and is now the world's most pleasant person (she was truly one of the most manipulative, cruel people I've ever met in my life). So she had the opposite reaction to your relative. She now never speaks of it.

Now my other grandmother. This was the worst one. She should have stopped driving 10-15 years ago. I was TERRIFIED the last time I rode in the car with her in high school. I told everyone then that she should not be allowed on the road. She stopped driving family members around after that but continued to drive herself. It was obviously a tactic to keep driving but to not let anyone know how bad she was. My dad (her son) fought hard to do something about it but my aunt (her daughter) refused to hear it. She said that if we did anything - disable the car, report her to the DMV - she would do everything in her power to reverse it. There were some ugly family fights over.

Finally, a few years ago, I demanded that my grandmother drive me somewhere. I was at her house to pick her up to go to an estate sale a few blocks away. I asked her to drive me so I could check up on her. I said it jokingly but she knew I was serious. Again, it was terrifying. There was no way she could have stopped in time if a kid had run out into the road. She nearly clipped several side view mirrors and she missed a stop sign. I knew my dad didn't want to get in the middle again so I planned on simply disabling her car, telling her I would have it towed to a shop and then tell her it was a goner (it's almost 20 years old). That same day, my aunt took my grandmother car shopping since the old car has been having mechanical problems for awhile. Oh for crying out loud! The family fight went on and on and on (during which time, an elderly man plowed into the front of the grocery store my grandmother shops at!). There was even an incident where my grandmother didn't show up for a family lunch. HOURS later, she arrived at my aunt's house - she had been lost in the 5 mile stretch she had driven a million times over the past 20 years. But she told the family that she witnessed a car accident and was asked by the police officers to watch two young children while their mother was taken to the hospital. She had to stay hours by the side of the road with them. We could not verify her story (I actually called the police to see if there were any injury accidents at that time of day, etc.) and finally about a week later she admitted she was lost. That didn't even phase my aunt. It only stopped when my grandmother fell, broke her pelvis and has been in assisted living since.

So unfortunately, I can't give much advice as the two people in my family who needed to stop driving the most, we were unable to get to do so. But it was due to the fact that not the entirely family was on the same page. If his wife is willing to be strict about usage of her car, perhaps taking his car away will be the best bet. It's terrible wondering what is going to happen to your relative and to other people out on the road. If your family is united, do whatever it takes to keep him safe!

[Jolly]

After a minor fender bender, I had the police take my father's license. To get it back, he had to pass a DMV mandated physical.

He couldn't, so they wouldn't reinstate him.

[badlander]

From your description of his behavior, I would suspect that he could have some vascular dementia going on since he has already stroked. I have worked as a geriatrics nurse for almost 10 years and was a caregiver for over 20 years to my parents, both with non Alzheimer related dementias so I can safely say I know something about this. Problem with demented individuals, is that they see themselves as being normal, every one else has a problem, which sounds like your loved ones attitude about things. This means one thing. You can NEVER win an argument with them so you might as well not try.

You are doing the right thing though, so do not feel guilty. I was very lucky in that both of my parents quit driving on their own volition. My father quit when he was around 80. He had been a great driver (taxi) until then but saw that he was having trouble on the road and gave it up. My mom was the same. The way I dealt with the issue was by telling her that I would be glad to drive her anywhere she wanted to go. I kept my word and never refused her a ride.

Handing the problem over to his physician is probably the best way to deal with it. Don't be afraid to tell the doctor that he is having problems with anger....

quote:If he found out it was me, he would resent me for the rest of my life, after an initial screaming fit at me, he would probably never speak to me again. He takes his anger out on his wife, regardless of what or who he is upset with, and this is what really concerns me. I am also asking his doctor to deal with the anger issue too. The anger and bad behavior toward his wife are the result of the personality change that happened as a result of his stroke.quote....

I'm glad that you brought this up to his doctor also. This is a form of aggressive behavior that you are right, is associated with stroke/dementia patients. It can turn physical in nature and it can be controlled. I hesitated telling my mothers doctor about her aggressive behavior until it was too late and she beat the living dirt out of my father and eventually turned her aggression on me also. There are medications out there that can control the anger issues. I feel for you and for his wife. Being a caregiver is a 36 hour a day, thankless job. Anyone who does it has earned their place in heaven.

Funny thing is that in Illinois, where I am from, I was talking to a DMV employee one day and she told me that she has had cases of son and daughter bringing elderly dad in to the office braced between them for him to get his license renewed. She said that as long as they could pass the vision test and answer the questions correctly, they had to issue a license. Since then they have changed the laws where over a certain age, individuals must pass a written and driving test to get their licenses.

Scary, huh? I wonder how many bluff their way through?

[kritter8888]

Im not sure how this person is but a lot of elderly people dont feel that they need a driver license to drive, since they didnt have one for a good part of their lives. So taking away the license might not solve your problem.

i remeber when I was at home and my grandpa pulled into the front lawn, yes he missed the driveway and was close to hitting the house. That night when he was in bed I took his keys. Simple as that no keys to his truck no drive. He was not happy but in time I think that he understood that I did it out of love. Just make sure that you are there to take this person where they need to go and when they need to get there.

Best of luck.

[Common Tator]

I live in another state. Hubby and I have invited them to come live at our ranch with us. Mom desparately wants to do it. He has put his foot down and refused. He may change his mind when he can't drive. And Mom isn't getting any younger either. She can't keep driving forever.

If they move here, we can just plan our trips into town so that we only need to go once a week or so, and get appointments, shopping, etc., all taken care of then. I can be there and step in when his rage gets the better of him. and I can be forceful about him not driving, and taking meds and whatever treatments necessary.

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by Common Tator

If he found out it was me, he would resent me for the rest of my life, after an initial screaming fit at me, he would probably never speak to me again. He takes his anger out on his wife, regardless of what or who he is upset with, and this is what really concerns me. I am also asking his doctor to deal with the anger issue too. The anger and bad behavior toward his wife are the result of the personality change that happened as a result of his stroke.

If the state takes his license, I believe he would give up driving. He would also be asked to relinquish his key, but would probably keep the remote door opener, because he often opts to sit in the car while his wife shops.

Probably, but it is more important that no one gets killed or injured by his actions.

Someone losing their facilities, is never a pleasant sitiation, but it is most important, that those who DO have their facilities, do the right thing.

When a person become too abusive to others, it's getting time to put them in a professional controlled environment, before it gets worse.

Good luck.